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Old 10-27-2008, 04:49 PM   #1
Patty F
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PET scan vs CT scan

I know that I have read on the boards that PET scans are better to see some things and CT scans are better to see other things. Can someone please let me know which is which? I promise this time to save it so I won't have to ask again. (Dang chemo brain)
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10/15/07: Diagnosed at age 46 lymph node removal (2)
ER/PR - Her2 +++
11/07: Port Installed
11/07 - 1/08: AC
1/30/08: Right Mast Stage lllC
2/28/08: Start Taxol and Herceptin weekly.
5/15/08: Finished Taxol
8/12/08: Finished 33 Rads
1/29/09: Finished Herceptin
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:45 PM   #2
Yorkiegirl
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Patty I have had the combo one PET/CT where both are done.
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Texas
Biopsy Dx'd 3-23-05 Age 48
MRM 4-5-05 w/ 2 tumor's 5cm, and 6 cm (right side)
IDC (poorly differentiated infiltrating ductual carcinoma)
5+/16 nodes
Stage III A
Grade 3
ER/PR-, Her2/neu ++
Ki67 78%
Begin Chemo 5-2-05 4XAC Dose Dense , 4X Abraxane Dose Dense (ended August 05)
28 Rad's ended October 13 2005
Started Herceptin Weekly August 2005 for one year
Had a Simple mastectomy left side after Mamo showed incresed micro-calcifications. Jan. 17 2006.
Brain MRI Feb.2006--All Clear
August 28, 2006 Last Weekly Herceptin.
October 2006--Colonoscopy, 6 Polyp's removed--all B9
PET Scan July 2007
Abdominal MRI Oct. 2007---2 Right Kidney Cysts
Core Biopsy-- Lump on Scar Line 1-10-08---B9
Brain MRI 6-2008--All Clear
PET/CT Scan 6-2008
Sept. 8 2008, 4CM area removed from mastectomy scar line. Proved to be B9.
PET/CT Scan-- July 2009 --All clear
August 17,2009 ---Had Port Removed
6 Years NED -- April 5,2011
DX'd with Melanoma left arm 10-10-2011
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:16 PM   #3
SoCalGal
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Pet/ct

Hi Patty-
They do a PET/CT which is mostly a PET with a 5 minute CT enhancement during the PET. With contrast during the CT part. I prefer the CT at the very end. My onc's office does the CT at the very beginning so I have my scan at the hospital where they do it my way!
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1996 cancer WTF?! 1.3 cm lumpectomy Er/Pr neg. Her2+ (20nodes NEGATIVE) did CMF + rads. NED.
2002 recurrence. Bilateral mastectomy w/TFL autologous recon. Then ACx2. Skin lymphatic rash. Taxotere w/Herceptin x4. Herceptin/Xeloda. Finally stops spreading.
2003 - Back to surgery, remove skin mets, and will have surgery one week later when pathology can confirm margins.
‘03 latisimus dorsi flap to remove skin mets. CLEAN MARGINS. Continue single agent Herceptin thru 4/04. NED.
‘04 '05 & 06 tiny recurrences - scar line. surgery to cut out. NED each time.
1/2006 Rads again, to scar line. NED.

3/07 Heartbreaking news - mets! lungs.sternum. Try Tykerb/Xeloda. Tykerb/Carbo/Gemzar. Switch Oncs.
12/07 Herceptin.Tykerb. Markers go stable.
2/8/08 gamma knife 13mm stupid brain met.
3/08 Herceptin/tykerb/avastin/zometa.
3/09 brain NED. Lungs STABLE.
4/09 attack sternum (10 daysPHOTONS.5 days ELECTRONS)
9/09 MARKERS normal!
3/10 PET/CT=manubrium intensely metabolically active but stable. NEDhead.
Wash out 5/10 for tdm1 but 6/10 CT STABLE, PET improving. Markers normal. Brain NED. Resume just Herceptin plus ZOMETA
Dec 2010 Brain NED, lungs/sternum stable. markers normal.
MAR 2011 stop Herceptin/allergy! Go back on Tykerb and switch to Xgeva.
May-Aug 2011 Tykerb Herceptin Xgeva.
Sept 2011 Tykerb, Herceptin, Zometa, Avastin.
April 2012 sketchy drug trial in NYC. 6 weeks later I’m NED!
OCT 2012 PET/CT shows a bunch of freakin’ progression. Back to LA and Herceptin.avastin.zometa.
12/20/12 add in PERJETA!
March 2013 – 5 YEARS POST continue HAPZ
APRIL 2013 - 6 yrs stage 4. "FAILED" PETscan on 4/2/13
May 2013: rePetted - improvement in lungs, left adrenal stable, right 6th rib inactive, (must be PERJETA avastin) sternum and L1 fruckin'worsen. Drop zometa. ADD Xgeva. Doc says get rads consultant for L1 and possible biopsy of L1. I say, no thanks, doc. Lets see what xgeva brings to the table first. It's summer.
June-August 2013HAPX Herceptin Avastin Perjeta xgeva.
Sept - now - on chemo hold for calming tummy we hope. Markers stable for 2 months.
Nov 2013 - Herceptin-Perjeta-Avastin-Xgeva (collageneous colitis, which explains tummy probs, added Entocort)
December '13 BRAIN MRI ned in da head.
Jan 2014: CONTINUING on HAPX…
FEB 2014 PetCT clinical “impression”: 1. newbie nodule - SUV 1.5 right apical nodule, mildly hypermetabolic “suggestive” of worsening neoplastic lesion. 2. moderate worsening of the sternum – SUV 5.6 from 3.8
3. increasing sclerosis & decreasing activity of L1 met “suggests” mild healing. (SUV 9.4 v 12.1 in May ‘13)
4. scattered lung nodules, up to 5mm in size = stable, no increased activity
5. other small scattered sclerotic lesions, one in right iliac and one in thoracic vertebral body similar in appearance to L1 without PET activity and not clearly pathologic
APRIL 2014 - 6 YRS POST GAMMA ZAP, 7 YRS MBC & 18 YEARS FROM ORIGINAL DX!
October 2014: hold avastin, continue HPX
Feb 2015 Cancer you lost. NEDHEAD 7 years post gamma zap miracle, 8 years ST4, +19 yrs original diagnosis.
Continue HPX. Adding back Avastin
Nov 2015 pet/ct is mixed result. L1 SUV is worse. Continue Herceptin/avastin/xgeva. Might revisit Perjeta for L1. Meantime going for rads consult for L1
December 2015 - brain stable. Continue Herceptin, Perjeta, Avastin and xgeva.
Jan 2016: 5 days, 20 grays, Rads to L1 and continue on HAPX. I’m trying to "save" TDM1 for next line. Hope the rads work to quiet L1. Sciatic pain extraordinaire :((
Markers drop post rads.
2/24/16 HAP plus X - markers are down
SCIATIC PAIN DEAL BREAKER.
3/23/16 Laminectomy w/coflex implant L4/5. NO MORE SCIATIC PAIN!!! Healing.
APRIL 2016 - 9 YRS MBC
July 2016 - continue HAP plus Xgeva.
DEC 2016 - PETCT: mets to sternum, lungs, L1 still about the same in size and PET activity. Markers not bad. Not making changes if I don't need to. Herceptin/Perjeta/Avastin/Xgeva
APRIL 2017 10 YEARS MBC
December 2017 - Progression - gonna switch it up
FEB 2018 - Kadcyla 3 cycles ---->progression :(
MAY30th - bronchoscopy, w/foundation1 - her2 enriched
Aug 27, 2018 - start clinical trial ZW25
JAN 2019 - ZW25 seems to be keeping me stable
APRIL 2019 - ONE DOZEN YEARS LIVING METASTATIC
MAY 2019 - progression back on herceptin add xeloda
JUNE 2019 - "6 mos average survival" LMD & CNS new single brain met - one zap during 5 days true beam SBRT to cord met
10/30/19 - stable brain and cord. progression lungs and bones. washing out. applying for ds8201a w nivolumab. hope they take me.
12/27/19 - begin ds8401a w nivolumab. after 2nd cycle nodes melt away. after 3rd cycle chest scan shows Improvement, brain MRI shows improvement, resolved areas & nothing new. switch to plain ENHERTU. after 4th cycle, PETscan shows mostly resolved or improved results. Markers near normal. I'm stunned but grateful.
10/26/20 - June 2021 Tucatinib/xeloda/herceptin - stable ish.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:32 AM   #4
Joan M
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Hi Patty,

Glad to see that you're doing well and can't blame you for wanting to the best follow-up you can.

PET/CT and CT scan are really two different tecnologies.

Each has it's good and bad points and sometimes it can be hard to determine which is best.

The CT uses a contrast medium and can "see" nodules as small as 2-3 mm, for example, (there are 10 mm in 1 cm, and 1 cm is about 0.34, or about a third of, an inch). On the other hand, although the CT scan can see a nodule that small, it might not be able to identify it as benign or malignant. However, such a nodule can then be followed. (In the case of cancer, a CT scan can be done for the chest, abdomen and pelvis, for example. They're done in one setting, but there will be three separate reports.)

On the other hand, a PET scan doesn't really "see" anything but rather measures metabolic activity of glucose, which rapidly metabolizes in cancer (and in other types of) cells. A "nodule" will "light up" on the screen at about 1 cm to be sure if there's a potential problem, and the probability of it lighting up below that size, even if it's malignant, decreases as the size of the nodule decreases (as in a linear relationship).

The PET is a nuclear test. It does not use the same "contrast" as a CT scan, which uses iodine. The PET instead uses a nuclear isotope (FDG 18, or something like that). Sometime a reports states, "no FDG avid areas," if nothing lit up.

The CT had been eventually added to the PET to give position to the whole PET scheme. It adds a better view of the liver, lungs, etc. to better pinpoint any problems.

Which is better?

Case in point (you decide): In May 2006 I had a PET/CT, which is whole body for everybody (meaning the organs and bones from the upper neck to the middle of the thighs). The scan was clean.

In May 2007 the scan was repeated and it revealed a 9 mm malignant nodule in the left lung which was eventually removed by a wedge resection. It recurred a year later in April 2008 as residual from the surgery and I had radiofrequency ablation to attend to that this past August.

When the 9 mm nodule was noted in 2007, my onc asked the facility where the PET/CT was done to determine whether that nodule had been there in the PET/CT of 2006, and it was, as a 5 mm nodule. But because the scan was a nuclear scan it was too small to light up and therefore it was never noted.

It's difficult to say whether this was standard of care, meaning that perhaps another facility may have noted the nodule in the CT part of the report even though it didn't light up on PET.

Joan
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Diagnosed stage 2b in July 2003 (2.3 cm, HER2+, ER-/PR-, 7+ nodes). Treated with mastectomy (with immediate DIEP flap reconstruction), AC + T/Herceptin (off label). Cancer advanced to lung in Jan. 2007 (1 cm nodule). Started Herceptin every 3 weeks. Lung wedge resection April 2007. Cancer recurred in lung April 2008. RFA of lung in August 2008. 2nd annual brain MRI in Oct. 2008 discovered 2.6 cm cystic tumor in left frontal lobe. Craniotomy Oct. 2008 (ER-/PR-/HER2-) followed by targeted radiation (IMRT). Coughing up blood Feb. 2009. Thoractomy July 2009 to cut out fungal ball of common soil fungus (aspergillus) that grew in the RFA cavity (most likely inhaled while gardening). No cancer, only fungus. Removal of tiny melanoma from upper left arm, plus sentinel lymph node biopsy in Feb. 2016. Guardant Health liquid biopsy in Feb. 2016 showed mutations in 4 subtypes of TP53. Repeat of Guardant Health biopsy in Jana. 2021 showed 3 TP53 mutations, BRCA1 mutation and CHEK2 mutation. Invitae genetic testing showed negative for all of these. Living with MBC since 2007. Stopped Herceptin Hylecta (injection) treatment in March 2020. Recent 2023 annual CT of chest, abdomen and pelvis and annual brain MRI showed NED. Praying for NED forever!!
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:18 AM   #5
freyja
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brain scan?

So what kind of scan is used to make sure the brain is clear? I've had MRI's of the torso, CT scan and bone scan. I'm worried they haven't really checked the brain.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:06 PM   #6
Rich66
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Joan,
Not noting something which was noticeable does sound like a poor practice. Seems like it should have been cause for a CT if the CT part of the PET/CT was equivocal. But..not noting it????
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:08 PM   #7
Chelee
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Freya, As to the brain I would request a MRI. Some oncologist will try to talk you into a CAT scan. (It's cheaper.) I would not be happy with that.

A MRI of the brain is much better and since we are dealing with her2...that is the only acceptable scan in my opinion. I like to have a brain MRI at least yearly. (If you've never had a baseline MRI of brain...nor one since you finished chemo I would probably mention this to your onc.)

Most oncologist won't do scans unless you present with symptoms. That's probably why your onc hasn't done an MRI of your brain yet. You could ask your onc about this if your worried. I've been having bad headaches and I have a MRI of brain in a week.

Chelee
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DX: 12-20-05 - Stage IIIA, Her2/Neu, 3+++,Er & Pr weakly positive, 5 of 16 pos nodes.
Rt. MRM on 1-3-06 -- No Rads due to compromised lungs.
Chemo started 2-7-06 -- TCH - - Finished 6-12-06
Finished yr of wkly herceptin 3-19-07
3-15-07 Lt side prophylactic simple mastectomy. -- Ooph 4-05-07
9-21-09 PET/CT "Recurrence" to Rt. axllia, Rt. femur, ilium. Possible Sacrum & liver? Now stage IV.
9-28-09 Loading dose of Herceptin & started Zometa
9-29-09 Power Port Placement
10-24-09 Mass 6.4 x 4.7 cm on Rt. femur head.
11-19-09 RT. Femur surgery - Rod placed
12-7-09 Navelbine added to Herceptin/Zometa.
3-23-10 Ten days of rads to RT femur. Completed.
4-05-10 Quit Navelbine--Herceptin/Zometa alone.
5-4-10 Appt. with Dr. Slamon to see what is next? Waiting on FISH results from femur biopsy.
Results to FISH was unsuccessful--this happens less then 2% of the time.
7-7-10 Recurrence to RT axilla again. Back to UCLA for options.
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