hot flashes revisited...

Kimberly Lewis · 10-22-2007, 06:01 AM

I was taking Neurontin for hot flashes for about a year or so. Looking for ways to save $ I decided to go without and lower my monthly med bills. I was still having flashes anyway and I read that there was a possiblility of it reacting with some of the other meds I am on. Well - the flashes I got after going cold turkey were much worse - full blown sweat hog flashes! So I guess it proves that it did work for me, turned down the volume considerably! Just to put in my two cents on the flash drug suggestions....

tousled1 · 10-22-2007, 12:02 PM

Kim,

I was on Neurontin for a few years back when I had my back surgery. You should never go off it cold turkey -- that may be one of the reasons your flashes became so bad. As with any medication you should gradually wean off it.

sassy · 10-23-2007, 08:04 PM

Kim,

I've been on Neurontin for about 7 months now. Helped a great deal and really alleviated some other side effects (neurological) that I was having. It also greatly helped me to make more of myself (HAHA)!

I tapered off my Neurontin and it helped with the appetite for about two weeks--then the hot flashes and the side effects came back with a vengance. So I'm back up to a higher dosage--feeling great and starving to death!

Hope you are doing well.

Kimberly Lewis · 10-24-2007, 04:58 AM

Hi Sassy, I am doing well here. My hot flashes finally have subsided quite a lot and so decided to stay off the Neurontin. One less pill you know? I am still going to Dr. Ruben in Gbo. How do you like your new Onc at Elkin - if you are there still.

TSund · 10-24-2007, 05:09 AM

Kim,

I'd be curious as to your estrogen levels. From what I've been told hot flashes are a sign of estrogen fluctuation; whether up or down. Does a hysterectomy include ovary removal? (sorry to be dumb)

I know from personal experience that natural progesterone can greatly help hot flashes, however it is an unknown as to how that affects PR+ tumors. (of which Ruth's is)

Someone out there had hot flashes greatly relieved by a certain anti-depressant which I cannot recall. Can someone help?

Sheila · 10-24-2007, 05:52 AM

Terri
I think they were talking about Effexor, which is an antidepressant used for hot flashes...and they sometimes leave the ovaries when doing a hysterectomy, depends on age, reason etc....mine were left in, but I was onl;y 28 when I had it....if they say total hyst. then the ovaries are removed, partial, they are left in.
Hope this helps./

Kimberly Lewis · 10-24-2007, 06:03 AM

Hi Terry, In my case it was a total hysterectomy - ovaries, tubes - the works.... I do wonder myself about the fluctuation of estrogen. On another note - my genetic counselor told me that multi-focal tumors were sometimes indicative of BRCA1 or 2 - is there any family history for Ruth? Is that something you have considered? The info is helpful as far as treatment is concerned.

TSund · 10-24-2007, 06:25 AM

Ruth did have BRAC testing... negative. Of course that only covers "known" strains,and with her Filipino heritage I wonder...

But with negative results it makes no sense to have unnecessary surgery...

Andrea Barnett Budin · 10-24-2007, 05:58 PM

Effexor 75 mg made me foggy-headed, couldn't seem to concentrate. I discovered this after months of complaining of exhaustion beyond normal tired and inability to focus. Thought it was coming from low red blood cell count. I was put on E (anti-depressant) to help HOT FLASHES. Did not help flashes but did cure IBS!

So I am in the process of weaning off. Down to 37 1/2 mg. Less tired. Clearer headed. But IBS back.

Nut onc (nutritional oncologist) put me on Black Cohosh 80 mg X 2 a day and hot flashes, after a mnth are wayyyyy better. Almost gone. Need 3 mnths to kick in.

Meanwhile am reading about PROGESTERONE. John Lee's WHAT YOUR DOCTOR MAY NOT TELL YOU ABOUT MENOPAUSE. Unopposed estrogen. Am seeing endocrinologist for high bld sugar, not yet diabetic, working at not becoming one -- haven't had sugar since '04 (GO FIGURE!)... Very interesting.

As a desperate HOT FLASHER, I am unsure still which is riskier -- Black C or Progesterone... Am still researching, but getting major relief in the process. Some are taking natural progesterone NATURAL WOMAN. You can google it...

I am in my 23rd yr of hot flashing. 9 yrs on Herceptin! NED since'99!!

Wishing wellness and coolness to all...
Andi

TSund · 10-24-2007, 07:55 PM

Andrea,

There's also one called "What Your Doctor May not Tell you About Breast Cancer".

It made me swear I'd never have chemo or encourage anyone I loved to have chemo. However, when Ruth showed up HER2 positve that changed the equation very rapidly.

Lee's books are a startling look at the pharmeceutical industry. My father is a pharmacist and some years ago we were talking and he did not even know the difference between natural progesterone and "progesterone" progestins that make up the HRT treatment that was pushed on millions of women.

I think the role of progesterone is still pretty unknown in bc. The fact is that a higher PR % is indicative of a better prognosis than ER positive alone. No one seems to know why. I am confused as to why this would be, if progesterone is yet another thing that will feed the cancer...

Dr. Lee speaks of natural progesterone like it cure just about anything. I cannot speak to its danger or its help to BC. HOWEVER, I can say personally that it brought my PMS symptoms under control, changed the constant cystic breast problem I had, brought back my periods when I started early menopause at the age of 40. Reading about estrogen dominance has been fascinating, and I must say I agree with him. I see the problems he describes in my college students. It has also been reported to help bone density. Just wish I knew whether how the PR+ fits into the natural progesterone equation for Ruth.

AlaskaAngel · 10-25-2007, 10:49 AM

Tsund/Terri,

I heartily agree with you. Dr. Lee may have only been able to make a rough start on understanding the basis for endocrine problems and finding a solution to them, but even so, I think his nontoxic approach was way ahead of his time, and much more helpful than where we have been taken.

Take a look at Hope's post on insulin in the articles forum, in particular in regard to PR.

A.A.

Andrea Barnett Budin · 10-25-2007, 01:20 PM

From John Lee's book -- HOT FLASHES ARE NOT A SIGN OF ESTROGEN DEFICIENCY PER SE. THEY ARE A SIGN OF LACK OF ESTROGEN AND/OR PROGESTERONE RESPONSE TO THE URGINGS OF HYPOTHALAMIC CENTERS (the GnRH prompt)?????? OFTEN WHEN P LEVELS ARE RAISED, THE PITUITARY STOPS TRYING TO SIGNAL THE OVARIES TO OVULATE, THE HYPOTHALMUS SETTLES DOWN AND THE HOT FLASHES USUALLY SUBSIDE. Hard for me to wrap my brain around, but I know malfunctioning hypothalamus has been said by onc to be responsible for my flashes.

Lee -- FSH and LH LEVELS BEFORE AND AFTER ADEQUATE P SUPPLEMENTION CAN BE MEASURED. A DECLINE IN FSH AND LH INDICATES THAT THE GnRH PROMPT HAS SUBSIDED. I do not understand this paragraph, but am working at educating myself on natural progesterone cream for QOL, and out of desperation. Presently Black Cohosh 80 mg twice a day (1 mnth so far) has markedly improved this issue for me!

As to -- Breast Cancer is an endocrine disease, AA -- I read that the endocrine system is a complex of hormone-producing glands. Too much or too little of a certain hormone can have effects throughout the body. Many interact with each other to maintain balance.

Makers of natural progesterone claim it can relieve hot flashes, protect against bone loss and osteoporosis, help prevent breast cancer and fibrocystic breasts (wonder about my uterine fibroids???), help burn fat for energy, promote weight loss, has calming effect/is a mood enhancer, normalizes sleep pattern, increases sex drive, stabilizes blood sugar, thyroid function and mineral balance, hormone balance, water retention... WHO COULD ASK FOR ANYTHING MORE???

John Lee says "It is not the absolute deficiency of estrogen or progesterone, but rather the relative dominance of estrogen and possible deficiency of progesterone that is THE main cause of menopausal and related health problems". The goal is to maintain your normal level of progesterone and balance your ratio of estrogen to progesterone *naturally* vs synthetically. NOT TO LEAVE ESTROGEN UNOPPOSED.

Lee claims that Progesterone can direct and control the production of other hormones and protects you against the undesirable side effects of excess estrogen. Estrogen can induce a host of metabolic disturbances in your body and progesterone can counterbalance this.

Natural progesterone acts to balance excess estrogen thus preventing estrogen from becoming harmful to your health -- w/estrogen dominance and hormonal imbalance.

Symptoms of progesterone imbalance include: Moodiness, hot flashes, night sweats, depression, weight gain, bloating and breast tenderness.

Of course there is an opposing camp of thought which means that when I ask my OB/GYN he refers me to my ONC who says he doesn't know. I do have an ENDOCRINOLIST (for my high but not diabetic bld sugar, to *prevent* becoming diabetic) and will ask for her input -- all the while knowing that w/varying schools of thought on this NO ONE HAS *THE* CORRECT ANSWER...
Andi

NOTE: I AM ER/PR-

sassy · 10-25-2007, 07:38 PM

Hey Kim,

I'm still at Elkin. New onc seems OK, young and not quite up to speed but very open and checks things out. I'm glad I had Dr. K first.

Glad you are doing well.

R