CoQ10 to protect heart: anyone with experience?

[heblaj01]

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is known to offer some protection against heart damage from some chemo drugs such as Adriamycin. (It has also been used to correct decreased endogenous CoQ10 in patients taking statin drugs).

Has anyone used CoQ10 to reduce risk of cardiovascular problems when taking Herceptin? With what results? Any sign of interaction with Herceptin?

Any knowledge about the kind of heart problems faced by Adriamycin & Herceptin taking patients? If similar it would support the use of CoQ10 in both cases.

If CoQ10 is effective & safe to use with Herceptin for minimizing heart disease risk, it may also help in figthing cancer based on recent basic research (not yet confirmed in humans)

[Cathya]

Hi;

I am taking CoQ10....300 mg per day....1/2 morning and 1/2 evening. I did 4 AC and 4 Taxol, radiation, Arimidex and Herceptin. I started taking CoQ10 after confirming with my onc after finishing radiation and chemo. I just hadn't heard of it before. This would have been around Sept. 2005. I was taken off herceptin about 6 weeks ago due to a low muga....42%....so I really don't know. I continue to take it and hope that when I get my next test done in a couple of weeks things will have improved.

Cathy

[suzan w]

I am taking COQ 10, 200mg. I did 4 rounds of A/C and am 6 months into herceptin-every 3 weeks. So far, my MUGA tests (3 so far and one next week) have all been 65%. My oncologist said that COQ10 is OK to take, but she is not a real believer in supplements!!!

[chrislmelb]

I have just started taking COQ10 as my MUGA score is on its way down. 68,62 and then on Wed 58. I have just started with it and fish oil so i don't get pulled off the trial. here's hoping.
Christine

[heblaj01]

Thanks to Christine,Suzan & Cathia for replying to my querry.
I am not sure yet if CoQ10 is effective or not based on your varying results, but at least you gave me confidence that it is not declared as counterindicated by your onc.
A possible factor affecting efficacy ,besides dosage, is the type of pill: powder pills are the least bioavailable. Softgels in an oil base are said to be better in that respect(2 to 3 times). One U.S. supplier of CoQ10 pills using limonene claims even higher bioavailability.
I hope you are taking one of the better variety.

[jhandley]

There is a lot of evidence to show Q10 protects the heart. If you go to Pub Med and search there are at least 126 hits nearly all of which are positive. Recent research also shows more anticancer effects against melanoma; acting against the BCL-2 pathway. I have been researching Q10 on and off for 5 years and take 200-300 mg a day.eers
Jackie

[Cathya]

If there is a particular type of CoQ10 which is better than others please post this information. I buy mine at Cosco as it is cheaper and perhaps that is not a good idea. Thanks

Cathy

[Marlys]

I started taking CoQ10(150mgm) in December and seriously excercising in January. My Muga, done in February, improved from 63% to 72. I wouldn't be without it. Or the excercise. My onc decided further Mugas would not be necessary until I finished with Herceptin in July unless I developed cardiac symptoms.
Marlys

[heblaj01]

Cathya,

I have not found an exhaustive study comparing all the available CoQ10 formulations for their comparative bioavailability.

However the four documents listed below provide most of the info necessary to select a product among the better ones.

The first reference is a free full text as opposed to Ref 2 & 3 which are available as abstracts (full text for a fee).

It has also has the advantage to be a study not funded by a product manufacturer.

It puts the Q-Gel brand (made by Tischcon Corp using the Bio-Solv® process) slightly ahead of the six other tested brands.

While almost all (if not all) CoQ10 raw & finished materials come from Japan the added ingredients may vary from one wholesaler & its retailers to the others. So it is necessary to carefully check the complete list of those ingredients since some may be desirable while other may not. For instance most CoQ10 pills contain an insignificant amount of Vitamin E as an antioxidant preservative (1 or 2 I.U.). But a few brands (not in Ref. 1) include 100 to 400 I.U. which may not be recommanded when taking chemo which uses an oxidative process to kill cancer cells. An other example (one of the 7 brands in Ref.1) :CoQ10 dissolved in primrose & salmon oil . According to one previous post by Gina primrose oil may be OK for premenopausal patients on Herceptin but not for postmenopausal ones. Some brands also use a small amount of soybean oil (in addition to other oils) which is still controversial for cancer patients.

Consumer lab (http://www.consumerlab.com/results/CoQ10.asp) provides a partial list of CoQ10 brands to non suscribers with their label listed ingredients. (more extensive list for suscribers)

This reduces the work required to find the full content of the pills. Sometimes it may be necessary to get in touch with the manufacturer or wholesaler to get any missing info.



There are other brands claiming to have superior bioavailability such as Life Extension Super-Absorbable CoQ10™ with d-Limonene (http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00910.html) but it is difficult to judge their merit without comparative testing.The window in the web site describing the pill bioavailability has an error when it states that it takes 2 times 200mg to get the same effect as 697 mg of a standard pill. This would not be much of an improvement. I checked with their customer service that 2 times 100mg was the correct amount & that "standard pill" was a softgel & not the older powder pill. They also promote d-Limonene as an ingredient helping in cell differenciation.



References:

1. http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/117-1...08/content.pdf

(including table 1 & 2 : http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/117-1203/1108/Tables.pdf)

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

3 . http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

4. http://www.epic4health.com/noname.html (info on available Q-Gel pills).


P.S.
Since Marlys just posted a message indicating that she may already have benefited from her taking CoQ10 I am going to ask her what brand she is using. Keep in mind that the researchers in ref-1 found great variations in circulating CoQ10 blood levels from one individual to the next for the same product.

[R.B.]

Informative post heblaj01, it looks like you have done your "homework".

Do check out omega threes and sixes on this site if it is a subject you have not looked at. (Search facility above and right on the purple bar)

Omega three is begining to be recognised as benificial for circulatory disorders, see Mayo Clinic site, and I recently found a Medscape professional continuing education paper for doctors citing the importance of omega threes in circulatory / heart health.

I have seen suggestion of two trials with CoQ10 and BC.

One was reported on on this site - it was Italian from memory. Try the search feature above and right.

The other I mentioned I had seen in a book on CoQ10 in Scandiavia suggesting tumour control regression but the sample was small - I have seen suggestions it is ongoing.

Try searching on "NCBI" and use the search box for CoQ10 and Breast cancer etc.

I cannot copy and paste to this site under firefox at the moment.

RB

[Marlys]

Heblaj01,
I started taking COQ10 after discussing it with my PCP. She said it would not hurt. I did no research into its contents. I buy TruNature from Costco simply because that is where I shop a lot. Its ingredients, which have been verified by U.S. Phamocopea are: soybean oil, coenzyme q10, gelatin, glycerin, lecithin , yellow beeswax, d-alpha tocopherol, titanium dioxide, and riboflavin.
I must admit that I am a real skeptic about dietary supplements. I always believed if you ate right you wouldn't need to take vitamins, minerals, blah, blah, blah.
But between this bc and wet macular degeneration which has caused me to lose the sight in my left eye, I am a lot more liberal in my thinking and take supplements for both. But again with the O.K. of my PCP and ophthamologist. I have pasted a link to NCI on Co Q10 which you may or may not have seen.
Marlys
http://www.cancer.gov/templates/doc....=3&#Section_20

[R.B.]

Maryls

There is quite a lot on omega three / DHA and eyesight.

You might find some books dealing with the subject in the local library.

One book is called Macular Degeneration - Lylas G Mogk and Marja Mogk - greens, balancing threes and sixes etc.

DHA is essential to formation and maintainance of the eyes.

If you search on NCBI or the WEB you should find quite a lot.

Fats are fundamantal to many aspects of the bodies metabolism.

RB

[Marlys]

R.B.,
I am an R.N. and have some knowledge about wet macular degeneration. I am currently in a double blind study on the effects of a drug on my better eye. I receive a retrobulbar injection of the drug or a placebo every 6 months. The sight in my "bad "eye was pretty much gone by the time I finished chemo. In November, my better eye showed serious deterioration so I started receiving Macugen which is injected directly into the eye. I receive these injections every 6 weeks. This treatment is to continue for 1 year. I also take Icaps AREDS formula which has the following amounts and % of daily value:
Vitamin A 28,640 IU 573%
Vitamin C 452 mgm 753%
Vitamin E 400 IU 1333%
Calcium 132 mgm 13%
Zinc 69.6 mgm 464%
Copper 1.6 mgm 80%
The AREDS stands for Age Related Study Research Group
Archives of Ophthamology,2001; 119:1417-1436
Incidentally, The Macugen improved my vision to 20/15. This was as good as it had been prior my vision going bad in my "better" eye. I feel I do pretty good in the Omega 3 department.
Marlys

[R.B.]

Thank you for the post.

Interesting.

I hope your improvement continues.

A trial suggested DHA uptake flattens off at about 2grams a day.

Those that propose this theory stress that as well as ensuring a good omega three intake it is necessary to balance the sixes which in our time means cutting back on the sixes as they are found eveywhere in prepared foods, most oils etc etc.

I will try and do some searches on the trial when I get time.


Whilst I have read quite a lot I would stress I am no "expert" and significnat changes in diet should always be discussed with your advisor.

RB