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Old 09-20-2005, 07:09 PM   #1
Susan M (PA)
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More on I.V. Vit C , NY Times 9/13/05

High Doses Of Intravenous Vitamin C Fight Cancer
New York Times Syndicate
September 13, 2005

High doses of vitamin C administered intravenously can fight cancer -- at least in the laboratory, researchers report.

They took another look at the vitamin years after studies first suggested in the 1970s that high doses of ascorbate or vitamin C may help fight cancer. In the wake of those studies, additional studies using the same high doses found no benefit -- although some of them used only oral vitamin C, not intravenous doses of the vitamin.

After those initial, failed studies using oral vitamin C, "the conclusion was that this therapy should be shelved, that it doesn't work," says lead researcher Dr. Mark Levine, chief of the molecular and clinical nutrition section and senior staff physician, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases.

But Levine and his team took another look at the therapy after working for the federal government on the latest recommended daily intake levels for vitamin C.

As part of those studies, they examined the body's absorption of the nutrient and found that while oral intake does reach a saturation point, "when you give doses intravenously they go through the roof in the blood, and then they are cleared," Levine explains.

According to Levine, a 10-gram dose of vitamin C given intravenously produces bloodstream concentrations more than 25-fold higher than concentrations achieved from the same oral dose.
Some antibiotics are poorly absorbed when given orally, but fight infections effectively when given intravenously, and Levine and his team thought that might be the case with vitamin C and cancer.
Working with cell lines in the laboratory, they used high doses of vitamin C that could only be achieved by IV administration.

"At the highest concentration of ascorbic acid, if given intravenously, they don't touch normal cells and they kill lots of cancer cells. We don't know why," Levine says.

According to the study, published in the Sept. 12 to Sept. 16 issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vitamin C led to the formation of hydrogen peroxide, a chemical that can kill cells. This suggests a potential mechanism for therapy, Levine says.

"The mechanism has to be validated in animals -- the effects tested in animals to see if this is true," he says.

The newest study will likely set off another round of investigations about vitamin C's cancer-fighting ability, says Dr. Len Lichtenfeld, deputy chief medical officer for the American Cancer Society. He called the study interesting and noted that it was conducted by respected scientists.

However, he says, laboratory findings are a long way from clinical practice and more study is needed. But the American Cancer Society, after careful evaluation, does note the value of dietary vitamin C in reducing cancer risk, stating that "vitamin C may have a protective role" in reducing the risk for many types of cancer when it is consumed as part of a prudent diet.

If alternative medicine practitioners -- who have continued to use vitamin C treatments for cancer -- provide evidence that it works, this would be the ideal time to step forward with their findings, Lichtenfeld says.

In another study published in the same issue of the journal, researchers from Pennsylvania State University found that retinoic acid, also known as vitamin A, can boost immune system functioning, at least in mice.

Researchers A. Catharine Ross and Yifan Ma found that injecting mice with the vitamin boosted the mice's production of natural killer cells after they got a tetanus vaccine, improving their immune system response.

Newborns are susceptible to infectious diseases because their immune systems are immature and often respond poorly to vaccines.

Adding the vitamin A may help, although further study is needed, the researchers say.
c.2005 HealthDay News
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:52 PM   #2
StephN
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This research may have SOME value to SOME cancers SOME day.

I have a friend who tried high-dose vitamin C drips a few years ago. Her cancer advanced and she died horribly. She decided to take chemo when her cancer was too advanced to stop it.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:37 AM   #3
Christine MH-UK
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Unhappy Another negative experience

I knew somebody who had a secondary her2-,pr-,er- breast cancer. Taxotere was unsuccessful for her and our oncologist was going to put her on xeloda, but there was a short period between the two chemos. She decided to go for some IV vitamin C therapy during the short period in between. Of course she didn't tell her oncologist and I was so naive at that point that I figured that if somebody with an MD was administering something, it must be o.k. She deteriorated so rapidly during the vitamin C treatment that it had to be discontinued and she was sent back home to be hospitalized. She improved somewhat on the xeloda for a while. I can't help but wonder if the IV vitamin C therapy shortened her life. I was so concerned that she might have been harmed by the IV treatment that I wrote our oncologist after her death to let him know what had happened.

Perhaps scientists might one day find a way of getting vitamin C to kill cancer, but I am worried that this laboratory finding will be abused in ways that might actually harm cancer patients.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:46 AM   #4
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Hmmmm(sound of brain rattling)

If the C actually made things worse, it suggests that it is indeed involved in cancer. Maybe it should be blocked instead of supplemented???? The lab studies don't seem to mention what kind of cancer they were working with(hormone responsive, her2 etc). It could be like like other supplemnets that are helpful or harmful depending on the characteristic of the cancer.
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Old 09-21-2005, 11:08 AM   #5
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RIGHT ON, Rich!
Each of us has our own idiosyncratic type of cancer and we should not buy these ideas wholesale. Like Christine said, there are a lot of cancer patients who are naive, or who do not have a way to check things out well to make a really informed decision. The last thing we should do is act out of desperation even if we have to change treatments.
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Old 09-21-2005, 11:24 AM   #6
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But i would like to underscore that even if C is "bad" for some cancers, that suggests a mechanism to target..i.e. glass half full thinking
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Old 09-21-2005, 11:37 AM   #7
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I would be willing to bet that there is more than one lab somewhere in the world working on this right now!
My point is coming from a patient point of view. One that involves making decisions NOW or in the short term. We must be careful of so-called "cures" that may not do us any good at all and cause us to waste valuable time as the cancer can be doing its "thing."

I operate on the theory that a cancer cell is the hardest cell to KILL. Whatever goes after my high grade, fast moving type must be tougher than that cell. That does not leave much at this point in time!

Getting back to vitamin C. When I am not on chemo, which now has been over 3 years, I like to take something called Emergen-C. It is a powdered version of a good multi-vitamin. I don't use it evey day, but 3 or 4 times a week. There is one with extra calcium which I like. I think it helps me ward off colds and such, as I now get fewer than ever. I have Herceptin to target my cancer, but boosting my immune system is also part of my daily routine.
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