Flaxseed - HER2 (c-erbB2) metastatic oncogene expression decrease by a dramatic 71%

Hi...new to the group
I was reading with interest about the flaxseed oil and like many of you said, my oncol said not to take soy products also. Further research brought me to Omega 3 and shark liver oil. I my oncol gave me the go ahead for that so I am now just beginning to take 3 tsp daily to build my immune system to prevent reoccurance and also help lower my cholesterol. I am taking an oil form which is supposed to be better than gel caps.
Does anybody have any experience with Shark Liver Oil/
thanks
Kristen

To CL TANN

Re you correpondence with Dr Martin.

I emailed him to get clarification and here is what he said, and that it was ok to quote him. It looks like there may have been some confusion if chemo was part of the discussion.

"The flaxseed lignans do NOT, to any degree, activate the estrogen receptor. They block the estrogen receptor. But the lignans can also interfere with the activity of chemo drugs. Why take the risk. I am not against flaxseed lignans. I just wish we could find flax seed that was standardized to contain a defined amount of prelignans. It doesn't do any good to eat flax, except for fiber, if the lignan content is low.

Steve"

RB

In case anybody is interested and great to see more trials on diet etc.

RB


http://www.news-medical.net/?id=14864


ABSTRACT

"Australian breast cancer study seeks participants
Women's Health News
Published: Tuesday, 6-Dec-2005
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RMIT University researchers are seeking healthy, postmenopausal women to participate in a study to determine if diet and lifestyle can reduce the risk breast cancer.

"Previous research indicates that flaxseed may contain compounds that protect postmenopausal women from breast cancer," Leah Williamson, a postgraduate researcher at RMIT's Department of Food Science, said.

"These compounds, called phytoestrogens, work at lowering levels of estrogens linked to breast cancer. Flaxseed is particularly high in one such phytoestrogen, lignan, which is believed to reduce the enzymes and the estrogens that cause the breast to produce potentially cancerous cells.

"We are collaborating with Melrose Laboratories to study the potential benefits of flaxseed in reducing the risk of breast cancer and the time it takes to do so."

One in 10 Australian women develops breast cancer, making it the most common cancer and one of the most prevalent diseases in Australian women.

"The aim of the research is to assess the relationship between flaxseed and breast cancer, and to suggest diets that can be incorporated into the lifestyle of women at risk," Ms Williamson said. "Our goal is to lower breast cancer risk and to improve long-term quality of life."

The study, titled "Time taken for Flaxseed Lignans to Effect Biomarkers of Breast Cancer Risk in Postmenopausal Women", is seeking postmenopausal women in metropolitan Melbourne. Participants must be healthy, not on hormone replacement therapy, non-smokers and at least one year menopausal............. "

[al from Canada]

Here agian lies the confusion... old school vs. brave new world. Do phyto-estrogens (PE) bahave the same as estrogens (E), ie fuel E+ cancers OR do PE merely take the place of E in their receptors.

For the newbies to this discussion, think of a receptor as a comfortable bed on the cell surface the hormone E gravitates to and while in that bed the hormone does damage, in the case of E+ cancer it promotes growth. Drugs like tamoxifen are bigger and stronger than E and can kick them out of their bed.....the question again is, when PE replace E. what damage can they do?? The old school of thought is that PE behave the same as E BUT obviously that view is changing........can anyone clear this up?????
Al

If the comment below is correct as to the number of sources of phyto oestrogens, and phyto estrogens DO pose a problem fro ER + I dont know what you all will eat, as well as having to live in that glass bubble!

My weak attempt a humour!

I understand your concern and admire you throughness. This string has been very thought provoking.

Hopefully somebody will produce some more definative answers at some point, in the mean time it is important not to forget the flax oil is a good source of omega three, oleic acid etc and is low in omega six, which I beleive accounts for a good proportion of benifits but on the balance of proabilities not all. Contributors appear clear that the oil contains no lignans. ( I have not looked at that and so cannot comment)


http://professional.cancerconsultant....aspx?id=35579

ABSTRACT

"The effect of soy products is thought to be due to phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens are plant-derived non-steroidal compounds found in soy products, unrefined grain products, carrots, spinach, broccoli and other fruits and vegetables. Phytoestrogens have a weak estrogen-like effect and are protective against various cancers. The best documentation appears to be for the prevention of breast and prostate cancer, which are hormone-dependent cancers."


Re the above question the trials quoted in this string above seem to suggest that whatever the phyto estrogens are up to it works in the same direction as tamoxifen, or alters other paramaters in a benificial direction, but I appreciate are not definative which is a concern were so many questions are raised.


RB

[al from Canada]

Don't forget flaxseed oil is also a very rich source of Omega 9 (oleic acid) which has a totally different mechanism of HER2 down-regulation. That's why we fill up on olive oil!

Al

[suzan w]

Yikes! I am taking arimidex, and herceptin. ER+,PR+,Her2+...just read all the links about flaxseed and am now thoroughly confused! MY onc has said no to soy products. She is away till after the first of the year-and she is also not very open to alternatives if she is not convinced of their usefulness. The studies I just read about used flax and tamoxifen...wondering where arimidex fits into the equation. Flax sounds good for Her2+ folks...hoping someone can come up with the answers!!!

[al from Canada]

Arimidex seems to be in a black hole somewhere, Linda is also HER2+ and E+ and on arimidex.....if it is any consolation, I have enough confidence in flaxseed oil not being too estrogenic as it should be missing the lignans responsible for this. Linda takes 3000 - 4000 mg / day depending on the week, depending on how many pills in the bottle when I do her weekly supp's.

Think about it, arimidex inhibits aromatase, which is responsible for the conversion of natural steriods to to estrogens at a cellular level, that's why it doesn't work pre-menopausal. Phyto-estrogens are already converted so the question still goes back to how dangerous are phyto-estrogens to Estrogen fuelled cancers.....the jury is still out.
Al

[Ginger]

Thank you Al for the info and links.

A trial on flaxseed suggesting potential benifits for BC by reduction of an oestrogen metabolite if I understand the principles.

RB



Estrogen is metabolized along two competing pathways to form the 2-hydroxylated and the 16{alpha}-hydroxylated metabolites. Based on proposed differences in biological activities, the ratio of these metabolites, 2-hydroxyestrogen:16{alpha}-hydroxyestrone (2:16{alpha}-OHE1), has been used as a biomarker for breast cancer risk. Women with an elevated 2:16{alpha}-OHE1 ratio are hypothesized to be at a decreased risk of breast cancer. Flaxseed, the most significant source of plant lignans, and wheat bran, an excellent source of dietary fiber, have both been shown to have chemoprotective benefits. Some of these benefits may be attributable to their influence on endogenous sex hormone production and metabolism. We examined the effect of flaxseed consumption alone and in combination with wheat bran on urinary estrogen metabolites in premenopausal women. Sixteen premenopausal women were studied for four feeding treatments lasting two menstrual cycles each in a randomized cross-over design. During the four feeding treatments, subjects consumed their usual diets supplemented with baked goods containing no flaxseed or wheat bran, 10 g of flaxseed, 28 g of wheat bran, or 10 g of flaxseed plus 28 g of wheat bran/day. Urinary excretion of 2-hydroxyestrogen and 16{alpha}-hydroxyestrone, as well as their ratio, 2:16{alpha}-OHE1, were measured by enzyme immunoassay. Flaxseed supplementation significantly increased the urinary 2:16{alpha}-OHE1 ratio (P = 0.034), but wheat bran had no effect. These results suggest that flaxseed may be chemoprotective in premenopausal women.

Clearly rats and people are not the same but this is interesting none the less.

Also one really needs to see the trial as to level ratios of fats etc, but overall suggests balancing the omega three and six, and not relying solely on monosaturates eg olive oil (which itself is a mix but primarily monosaturate and like all natural products has a host of other "neutraceuticals" plant chemicals).

But as usual check it out for your self.

RB


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 57, 207-212, Copyright © 1993 by The American Society for Clinical Nutrition, Inc

ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATIONS
Relative effects of dietary saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fatty acids on cardiac arrhythmias in rats

PL McLennan
Cardiac Research Unit, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, Adelaide, Australia.

This study compared monounsaturated oleic acid with n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) for their ability to modify the vulnerability to cardiac arrhythmias during ischemia or reperfusion in rats. Replacement of saturated animal fat in the diet with oleic acid- rich olive oil did not significantly alter the incidence of ventricular fibrillation or other cardiac arrhythmias. Replacement with either n-6- rich sunflower seed oil or n-3-rich fish oil reduced the incidence and severity of arrhythmias occurring in ischemia. The fish oil significantly reduced reperfusion arrhythmias independently of antecedent ischemic arrhythmias. Fatal ventricular fibrillation was significantly reduced by n-6 (8%; n = 25) and n-3 (0%; n = 24) PUFA but not by monounsaturates (36%; n = 25) compared with saturated fat (42%; n = 24). The results suggest that dietary replacement of saturated fats by n-6 and especially n-3 PUFA but not monounsaturated fatty acids can reduce the likelihood of an ischemic event leading to sudden cardiac death.

[Lolly]

This is encouraging, but if one starts incorporating more omega 3 oils into the diet by taking fish oil capsules for example, I would be cautious about the source of the fish oil...re; Kristen's earlier question on Shark Liver Oil. I believe Shark is now considered to have high levels of mercury as it's a large predator, close to the top of the food chain so to speak, and so has more mercury than say, salmon oil would. Food for thought

<3 Lolly

Another flax oil / sed trial showing potential benifits both in new and established tumours in trials in mice.

You did not have a choice but thanks mice.

RB


http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...e2=tf_ipsecsha


SHORT COMMUNICATION: Flaxseed and its lignan and oil components reduce mammary tumor growth at a late stage of carcinogenesis
Lilian U. Thompson 1, Sharon E. Rickard, Lindy J. Orcheson and Maja M. Seidl

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto 150 College Street, Toronto,ON, M5S 3E2, Canada

1To whom correspondence should be addressed

Flaxseed, a rich source of mammalian lignan precursor secoisolariciresinol-diglycoside (S.D.) and {alpha}-linolenic acid (ALA), has been shown to be protective at the early promotion stage of carcinogenesis. The objective of this study was to determine whether supplementation with flaxseed, its lignan or oil fractions, beginning 13 weeks after carcinogen administration, would reduce the size of established mammary tumors (present at the start of treatment) and appearance of new tumors in rats. Dietary groups consisted of the basal diet (BD, 20% corn oil) alone or supplemented with a gavage of2200 nmol/day S.D. [S.D., equal to level in 5% flaxseed (F)], 1.82% flaxseed oil (OIL, equal to levelin 5% F) or 2.5% or 5% flaxseed (2.5% F and 5% F, respectively). After 7 weeks of treatment, established tumor volume was over 50% smaller in all treatment groups (OIL, 2.5% F, 5% F, P< 0.04; S.D., P < 0.08) while there was no change in the BD group. New tumor number and volume were lowest in the S.D.(P < 0.02) and 2.5% F (P < 0.07) groups. The combined established and new tumor volumes were smaller for the S.D., 2.5% F and 5% F groups (P< 0.02) compared to the OIL and BD groups. The high negative correlation (r = –0.997, P < 0.001) between established tumor volume and urinary mammalian lignan excretion in the BD, S.D., 2.5% F and 5% F groups indicates that the reduction in tumor size is due in part to the lignans derived from the S.D. in flaxseed. However, there was no relationship between new or total tumor development and urinary lignan levels. The effect of flaxseed oil may be related to its high ALA content. In conclusion, the S.D. in flaxseed appears to be beneficial throughout the promotional phase of carcinogenesis whereas the oil component is more effective at the stage when tumors have already been established.

[dogladybarks]

I go to an holistic nutrionist that I know well, and she set up a diet for me. Basically, it's 80% raw - 20% cooked. I asked about the soy thing, since so many say "stay away from it," and was told that "cultured soy products" are okay, and is what the orientals eat, not the other soy products readily available. I don't do yogurt, but do eat tempeh, and other cultured soy products.

As far as flaxseed, I only buy products with sprouted flaxseed, which is supposed to be much better than the ground.

Sue