Flaxseed - HER2 (c-erbB2) metastatic oncogene expression decrease by a dramatic 71%

Some body was asking about flaxseed.

An interesting article, which seems to fit in general terms with fat intake diet as a starting point etc.

If interested please see other omega three / six anf GLA posts.

Usual caveat to be viewed in context, with caution, and check it out for yourself if you have the time.

RB

[al from Canada]

Dear RB,
Were you to supply a link with that post? If so, I can't find it.
Thanks,
Al

[RhondaH]

http://www.world-wire.com/news/0729050001.html

Rhonda Hoffman

I am sorry. I meant to include.

Thank you very much Rhondah for finding and posting the link. It is indeed the one I was referring to.

RB

[BonnieT]

Hi
I could not find the flax seed muffing recipie , does anyone have one ??
Thanks
BonnieT

[CherylS]

Ok, now didn't I read here a while back that women who had ER+ breast cancer should avoid flaxseed because it is an estrogen based plant dirivitive? I quit taking it when I read that. Help!

Re plant phtyo estrogens impact etc.

Please find below some links which may help in your decision process.

Plants are very complex chemical arsenals, and appear to work in very many ways, so simple answers are not likely. It will I guess often be a balance of positive and possible negatives. I do beleive the omega three six balance is fundamental it causes changes of expression of all sorts of thing that appear to have a wider linkage to enabling cancer to function. As it takes years for many cancers to develop if diet is the cause it would no be reaonalbe to expect miracles over night. Breast tissue fat shows change in three months adipose tissue three years according to reports I have seen.

Overall my simplistic outlook is there is a certain comfort in knowing that we have eaten things for thousands of years, and that the vast increases in cancers is relatively recent, so whole food intake is unlikely to be the cause - it is when it is taken in processed form that a great deal of care has to be taken as any effect it has will be magnified by quantity and easy availability eg omega six.

But as usual there are no easy answers. Trials will only be done when governements decide to fund preventative research of dietary factors at sufficent scale to produce more definative answers on economic grounds. In the mean while people may be suffering unecessarily. Drugs companies will not do preventitate research based on food - billions to be saved not made here!.

There seems to be lots more information so try searching NCBI, Annieappleseed, google etc. if you need more reassurance.

I hope this helps, but as usual you have to check it out for your self.


FLAX

http://www.flaxhealth.com/breastcancer.htm

http://www.cancerrd.com/faqs/faq77.htm

http://annieappleseedproject.org/flaxeninefof.html


SOY

http://www.vegetariannutrition.net/v...st_cancer.html

[BonnieT]

Hey
I am going to have to check with my Oncologist before I take flax seed because she told me to avoid soy products due to estrogen, I am not sure about flax seed, thanks for reminding me !!!
BonnieT

[CLTann]

I am on Arimidex, with all ER, PR, HER2 positive. My onc specifically advised that I stay away from soy extract and phytosterols, such as flaxseed. Now this Canadian article specifically claimed the miracle of flaxseed to reduce tumor and reduce HER2 overexpression. How can I cope with these two directly opposite, but so critical and exciting, news? Anyone can shed scientific, not just "your own personal choice" type comments? I am so confused and frustrated. I know many of you share the same anxiety of wanting to know what to do.

Ann

[Ginger]

i am also somewhat confused. I thought I read a post by Al earlier that FS Oil is better for ER+ than ground FS would be. I wonder where that information came from? I am also on Arimidex and have started using ground flaxseed in yogurt every other day. Wonder if the Oil would be better or if should stop altogether?

As usual its very complex and opinions vary.

I suggest you read the links above and do some additional searches. In general terms it seems there are simply insufficient trials on prevention through diet. In consequence you are unlikely to find the definative answers you are looking for. It is a case of finding out as much as possible and making a value judgement. Try it and monitor the results would appear the optimal solution in you can have access to the tests.

Do remember that it appears that plants are of complex chemical construction and work in multiple different ways that are only begining to be understood.

Here are some more links that may help.

The first is about using flaxseed together with oestradoil testing. This seems a good idea. If your adviser is dubious or you are worried, "try it and monitor" would seem a good compromise. I dont know what the tests costs, or what would be considered most appropriate fat blood mamary pap etc. "Life extension" a supplement site has a huge range of blood tests, and members get a discount and access to professional advice. ( I have no association)

http://store.yahoo.com/annieapplesee...altusflax.html


This link is an examination of items with oestrogenic effects, which is mind boggling, and in a sense adds to the confusion, and at the other extreme engenders a "what the heck" outlook unless you live in a bubble (non plastic) or virgin rainforest.

http://store.yahoo.com/annieapplesee...altusflax.html


This is the overall concusion from one of the links above.

OVERALL CONCLUSION (ABSTRACT)

"Flaxseed inhibited the growth of ER+ MCF 7 human breast cancer in nude mice in the presence of high or low levels of estrogen. The effect of flaxseed at high estrogen level was dose dependent. Flaxseed enhanced rather than antagonized the inhibitory effect of TAM on the growth of ER+ human breast cancer in nude mice. TAM and flaxseed components reduced the tumor growth by decreasing the tumor cell proliferation and increasing apoptosis. Other mechanisms likely include those that have been mentioned earlier. The results are encouraging and provide some scientific justification for the clinical testing of flaxseed in both pre- and post- menopausal breast cancer patients taking TAM. If similar results are observed in patients, then flaxseed may be consumed with TAM to help reduce TAM resistance i.e. tumor growth after prolonged intake of tamoxifen."


And this from the other

......"In conclusion, FS inhibits the growth of human estrogen receptor positive breast cancer, and strengthens the inhibitory effect of TAM on the tumor growth. FS complements rather than antagonizes the effect of TAM on human tumor growth."........




As to digestion there are varied views of whether seed or oil is better. There is the possibility that the body uses the plants protective chemicals too. Cover your option maybe - sensible amounts of both. Whatever you do on the balance of probabilities the high omega three content will very likley improve your general health.


As usual it is best if you check things out for yourself. Please take the time to read the above links - if you dont understand bits dont worry you are not the only one - me too - but it will come to make a little sense and it is helpful in forming a view, or being able to sensibly take up your point with your oncologist / advisors.

RB

You may like to show this trial to your advisor.

If I understand it correctly it seems to be saying the eostrogenic effect of flax is not very signifiiant. Page 4

I have seen concrns elsewhere that tamoxifen may have increads tumour growth in cancers expressing cyclin d.

No cell type has been given.

As usual helpful and confusing at the same time.

http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/vi...nutritionbytes

RB

[CLTann]

I asked in this support group whether anyone has knowledge of flaxseed's rich phytoestrogen that can work against arimidex. Meanwhile, I wrote to Steve Martin, the contact person for the group that made the exciting news of flaxseed pastry that cut the cancer growth rate as well as the sharp reduction of HER2 positivity. Guess the big surprise I received from Dr. Martin. I quote the exact message from him:

"Forget the flaxseed. I agree with your doctor. Use curcumin dissolved in heavy cream or at least 1/2 and 1/2. Go back about 3 weeks in the blogs to find my essays. Curcumin is wonderful against cancer. Or do a search on our web site for the words curcumin cancer."

Dr. Martin told me to follow my onc's general advice of staying away from phytoestrogen, which is a major ingredient in flaxseed. I am totally shocked. The people who tauted about flaxseed asked me to forget about flaxseed!

Just to let others to join the confusion.

Ann






Steve

[al from Canada]

Dr. Martin's reply to Anne's question is the same as Ginger's recollection of my post on flaxseed and phyto-estrogens: flaxseed oil is preferable to flaxseed in e+ cancer. The reason for this is that (unless the manufacturer states otherwise), flaxseed oil is devoid of lignans. Lignans are responsible for the phyo-estrogenic effects of the flaxseed.

I leave you with my two favourite flax-links,
a collection of studies: http://www.thensome.com/flaxseedlinks.htm
the benefits on heart, bones, cancer: http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/flaxseedoil.html

Regards,
Al

Thank you for taking the trouble to respond it all makes for better understanding and accuracy. When wrong I am happy to be corrected.

CLTann

An interesting response I agree from Dr Martin. I will try and find the origiinal trial.

Al from Canada.

Great links.

This is an interesting trial from that group. Complex as usual. There is a suggestion that 20HEI is increased and it is an antagonist for breast cancer if I read this properly, so the phyto oestrogenic effect might be benificial?

It is a bit above me. Maybe you could show it to your oncologist and come back?.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/2/318

......"This leads to the formation of the 2 major metabolites of estradiol, 2-hydroxyestrone (2OHE1) and 16{alpha}-hydroxyestrone (16{alpha}OHE1) (13), which are excreted in either the urine or the feces (14) and have distinct biological properties. Although hydroxylation of estradiol and estrone can also occur at multiple sites (carbons 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 11, and 14-18), the 2- and 16{alpha}-hydroxylated metabolites are the most abundant (15)........

2OHE1 has shown little biological activity, with some antiestrogenic action in vitro (16-18). Conversely, 16{alpha}OHE1 has shown estrogen agonistic activity, including increased cell proliferation of human breast cancer cell lines in vitro (17-19), and an uterotropic effect comparable with that of estrogen in vivo (20, 21). Therefore, persons who have an increased proportion of 16{alpha}-hydroxylation (a low ratio of 2OHE1 to 16{alpha}OHE1) are suggested to have an increased risk of breast cancer (17, 22, 23).

"Supplementation with flaxseed but not soy or placebo significantly increased urinary 2OHE1 concentrations (7.25 ± 1.48, 6.15 ± 0.97, and 11.36 ± 1.93 µg/24 h in the placebo, soy, and flaxseed groups, respectively). No significant differences in 16{alpha}OHE1 concentrations after 16 wk were observed in any of the treatment groups (6.87 ± 1.32, 6.24 ± 1.05, and 5.07 ± 0.79 µg/24 h in the placebo, soy, and flaxseed groups, respectively).".......


RB

[Becky]

I am ER+ (50%) but PR negative. I do use flaxseed but maybe once a week as I feel it is okay to have a little. I eat cereal every morning (different ones) and one of the ones I eat is Uncle Sam's cereal. It does have whole flaxseeds in it (which aren't absorbed as well as ground) and I do sometimes put a tablespoon or 2 into pancake batter as it is good for my daughters and having 2 pancakes out of a batch that is enough for 6 people is not much.


I think if you are hormone positive, you do have to watch the soy and flax but a little variety is ok and I don't think it will hurt at all. If all you eat is soy and flax (a couple of servings a day combined) its probably not a good idea at all.

Just my thoughts as the nutritionist at the cancer center I go to said to watch it on both but no need to totally eliminate it like it is cyanide or anything so that is what I do.

Becky

Here is the summary of the trial from the NCBI web site. It is a pay for view so I have not had access to the full trial.

It looks like the results were based on tumour tissue analysis of real human patients and not poor mice for a change.

One for your oncologist to consider I suggest!.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15897583

1: Clin Cancer Res. 2005 May 15;11(10):3828-35. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
Click here to read
Dietary flaxseed alters tumor biological markers in postmenopausal breast cancer.

Thompson LU, Chen JM, Li T, Strasser-Weippl K, Goss PE.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Princess Margaret Hospital, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

PURPOSE: Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the growth of tumors in rats. This study examined, in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biological markers and urinary lignan excretion in postmenopausal patients with newly diagnosed breast cancer. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: Patients were randomized to daily intake of either a 25 g flaxseed-containing muffin (n = 19) or a control (placebo) muffin (n = 13). At the time of diagnosis and again at definitive surgery, tumor tissue was analyzed for the rate of tumor cell proliferation (Ki-67 labeling index, primary end point), apoptosis, c-erbB2 expression, and estrogen and progesterone receptor levels. Twenty-four-hour urine samples were analyzed for lignans, and 3-day diet records were evaluated for macronutrient and caloric intake. Mean treatment times were 39 and 32 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively. RESULTS: Reductions in Ki-67 labeling index (34.2%; P = 0.001) and in c-erbB2 expression (71.0%; P = 0.003) and an increase in apoptosis (30.7%; P = 0.007) were observed in the flaxseed, but not in the placebo group. No significant differences in caloric and macronutrient intake were seen between groups and between pre- and posttreatment periods. A significant increase in mean urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group (1,300%; P < 0.01) compared with placebo controls. The total intake of flaxseed was correlated with changes in c-erbB2 score (r = -0.373; P = 0.036) and apoptotic index (r = 0.495; P < 0.004). CONCLUSION: Dietary flaxseed has the potential to reduce tumor growth in patients with breast cancer.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 15897583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


RB

[Lyn]

I have been on Herceptin for over 4 years and been taking 4000mg Flaxseed Oil Capsules for over 2 years, at one time the board members thought I was selling the stuff because I couldn't shut up about it, however I have still had reoccurences so the Jury is still out for me, is it the Herceptin or the flaxseed keeping my mets under control so they don't go out of control? I am not hormone responsive and I was thrown into early menopause after the AC back in 98/99 I am now 51, but I was still able to take Aromasin which worked on one occassion to reduce enlarged glands and kill off the cancer cells, it did make my nails strong and hair grow quicker, but like everything else I don't have very good nails at the moment but I am on oral Cyclosphomide/Xeloda, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for reoccurence in my right breast after failing radiaiton with Xeloda for 26 severe doses, so hard question to give an answer to. I am also on Fish Oil capsules but stopped them for a couple of weeks when I was feeling unwell, each time I would berp I got a taste of the fish oil and that was worse than feeling sick. I have tried the liquid oils but like other things such as beetroot juice, I cannot stomach them anymore.

Love & Hugs Lyn

Lyn a living legend.

By the sound of it you have tried it all, but just in case, and please forgive me if I am treading on old ground.

Back taste

Are you using cod liver - it is not the same and repeats dreadfully, I had to give it up. Cold water fish oil is virtually tasteless, and does not repeat in my experience.

Have you looked at trying to cut down on th omega sixes, which is equally important as taking omega threes.

Have you juiced for yourself and tried various mixes. Some are delicious.

I cannot begin to imagine what you have been through.

Best wishes,

RB

I take what oncologists say with a large"grain of salt" because they know so lttle about nutrition. My onc told me to eat ice cream to gain weight. Back in the 90's they had baskets of soy products sitting around (decoratively) to suggest that "soy is good for breast cancer". I don't know...they are on the bandwagon like everybody else and some err on the side of too much caution, but with my oncs, it's "soy is good", no, soy is BAD (the baskets disappeared), COQ 10 is good, no, it's bad, and really when you get down to what they really think, it's that NOTHING works once the cat is out of the bag. That's why the WEB is worth its weight in gold. Susie