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Old 06-07-2007, 04:41 AM   #1
Mary Jo
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Can someone explain?

Can someone explain (in layman's terms) how to balance omega 6 and omega 3's? I don't get it. I do take (try to get in) 2 T of ground flax each day and also take a cod liver oil that meets the daily requirements for DHA and EPA. Is that sufficient?

R.B. if you reply to my post, please explain to me in simpler terms. I'm not stupid really I'm not...... BUT that omega 6 and omega 3 stuff is very confusing to me.

I appreciate anyone's help with this.

Hugs,

Mary Jo
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"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

Dx. 6/24/05 age 45 Right Breast IDC
ER/PR. Neg., - Her2+++
RB Mast. - 7/28/05 - 4 cm. tumor
Margins clear - 1 microscopic cell 1 sent. node
No Vasucular Invasion
4 DD A/C - 4 DD Taxol & Herceptin
1 full year of Herceptin received every 3 weeks
28 rads
prophylactic Mast. 3/2/06

17 Years NED

<>< Romans 8:28
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:57 AM   #2
Mary Jo
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Is bringing back to top. Obviously explaining this in layman's terms and simply is not possible.

Mary Jo
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"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

Dx. 6/24/05 age 45 Right Breast IDC
ER/PR. Neg., - Her2+++
RB Mast. - 7/28/05 - 4 cm. tumor
Margins clear - 1 microscopic cell 1 sent. node
No Vasucular Invasion
4 DD A/C - 4 DD Taxol & Herceptin
1 full year of Herceptin received every 3 weeks
28 rads
prophylactic Mast. 3/2/06

17 Years NED

<>< Romans 8:28
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Old 06-07-2007, 12:14 PM   #3
Lauriesh
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I try to balance them by eating as much omega 3's as I can. I eats lots of salmon, herring, etc. I use the smart balance products, eventhough they do have omega 6 in them, have a better balance than reg. margarine, mayo, etc. I also avoid processed foods that have oils other than canola and olive (which is very hard to do, because the oils that are high in omega 6, such as vegetable, peanut,etc. are in everything)

Hope that helps

Laurie
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:02 PM   #4
Mary Jo
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Hi Laurie,

I guess after reading your post I don't really understand what Omega 6's are. I know I don't understand the "balance" thing. Is still hoping for that simple, layman explanation.

Thank you,

Mary Jo
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"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

Dx. 6/24/05 age 45 Right Breast IDC
ER/PR. Neg., - Her2+++
RB Mast. - 7/28/05 - 4 cm. tumor
Margins clear - 1 microscopic cell 1 sent. node
No Vasucular Invasion
4 DD A/C - 4 DD Taxol & Herceptin
1 full year of Herceptin received every 3 weeks
28 rads
prophylactic Mast. 3/2/06

17 Years NED

<>< Romans 8:28
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Old 06-07-2007, 01:50 PM   #5
Chelee
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marejo, I am totally on board with you on this one. I really want to understand this whole topic on Omega 3's and Omega 6. I've read older threads on this and with the limited time do to other research I do online and my own health issues...I just don't fully understand all this and I want too.

I'm with you..I really hope someone can help us out on this one. I would sure appreciate any help in this area.

Chelee
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DX: 12-20-05 - Stage IIIA, Her2/Neu, 3+++,Er & Pr weakly positive, 5 of 16 pos nodes.
Rt. MRM on 1-3-06 -- No Rads due to compromised lungs.
Chemo started 2-7-06 -- TCH - - Finished 6-12-06
Finished yr of wkly herceptin 3-19-07
3-15-07 Lt side prophylactic simple mastectomy. -- Ooph 4-05-07
9-21-09 PET/CT "Recurrence" to Rt. axllia, Rt. femur, ilium. Possible Sacrum & liver? Now stage IV.
9-28-09 Loading dose of Herceptin & started Zometa
9-29-09 Power Port Placement
10-24-09 Mass 6.4 x 4.7 cm on Rt. femur head.
11-19-09 RT. Femur surgery - Rod placed
12-7-09 Navelbine added to Herceptin/Zometa.
3-23-10 Ten days of rads to RT femur. Completed.
4-05-10 Quit Navelbine--Herceptin/Zometa alone.
5-4-10 Appt. with Dr. Slamon to see what is next? Waiting on FISH results from femur biopsy.
Results to FISH was unsuccessful--this happens less then 2% of the time.
7-7-10 Recurrence to RT axilla again. Back to UCLA for options.
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Old 06-07-2007, 03:45 PM   #6
TSund
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Onegas

Hi,

I am no expert, so hopefully others will chime in. But simplistically put, both Omega 3's and Omega 6's are important to proper functioning of the body. But, there are Omega 6's in the environment and as food additives, etc. that it is easy to get off-balance, so I'm guessing sage advice would be to go heavy on the Omega 3's. (fish oil!?) (flaxseed?) (olive oil?)

I think it's a guessing game unless you go for testing (lipids?) which is probably not covered by standard medical insurance, but I could be wrong. Even then I don't know if the tests are accurately refecting what's in the body.

In our Western society a good guess would be that we are low on the3's. Past that I'm sure there are others with more expertise.

This is an article with good detail but not totally technical "gobbly-gook" and has some specific suggestions that might be helpful:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000316.htm


Hopefully this helps.

Terri
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Old 06-07-2007, 04:36 PM   #7
kacey
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Thumbs up

Terri, That was an interesting article. Think I understand it better now.

Marejo, thanks for asking the question. I was as stumped as you when it came to the balance of the two. Also to know what foods contained which fatty acid.
Kacey
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dx 9-13-05 MRM (lt)on 9-19-05
IDC stage llb grade 2 3/24 nodes+
ER/PR- Her2+++
Groshong placed 10-13-05 and chemo started
TCH x6 and continue Herceptin for one year every 3 wks
Rads x 33 (at the end of chemo) finished 4-01-06
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Old 06-07-2007, 07:09 PM   #8
Mary Jo
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Thank you Terri. That article was helpful.


Mary Jo
__________________
"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10

Dx. 6/24/05 age 45 Right Breast IDC
ER/PR. Neg., - Her2+++
RB Mast. - 7/28/05 - 4 cm. tumor
Margins clear - 1 microscopic cell 1 sent. node
No Vasucular Invasion
4 DD A/C - 4 DD Taxol & Herceptin
1 full year of Herceptin received every 3 weeks
28 rads
prophylactic Mast. 3/2/06

17 Years NED

<>< Romans 8:28
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:56 AM   #9
Lauriesh
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r.b. had suggested a site called nutritiondata.com that gives total omega 3 and omega 6 amounts for foods. It will list a lot of fat information that I don't understand either, but at the very end, it will list Total omega 3 and total omega 6. It is a good site to check out some of the common foods you eat to find out which ones are high in omega 6.


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Old 06-08-2007, 04:39 AM   #10
TSund
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oils

This one talks about the oils. Apparantly olive oil has other stuff that's very good for you, but it's not as high on the EPA factor

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T043800.asp#T043803

Terri
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:05 AM   #11
R.B.
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Thank you for your interest.

Changes in your fat profile will start quite quickly. Breast fat takes a few months to change and stubborn body fat 2 years or more. Fat will soften as it changes. Eyes should improve in a few months. Over a couple of years you will find that you desire for fat drops.

They key is to balance or better the omega threes and sixes and ensure a supply of the long chain omega threes and sixes.

AND this ideally cannot be divorced from better eating more veg, cutting out sugar fructose high levels fruit juice, variety balance, reducing salt intake, moderate and lean meat intake etc......

There is no simple way you just have to get an idea of the omega three six profile of all you eat and try within sensible pragmatic grounds and balance. You will quickly get the gist and food groups on average have similar profiles so you dont have to look everything up - consistency is a clue to fat content etc. Don't get to hung up on it as the figures are indicative and it will depend on how things are grown what they are fed etc just try more or less to balance or better.

Think pre-agricultural as a dietary starting point.

It is possible for a very few that the body does not make the long chain omega six. Deficiency is much less common and on balance the body is likely equipped to deal with it better than a deficiency of three. It is something I have questions about and have not yet found the answers. It may be as your body clears down its omega six stores it could be an issue. The only real way to answer the question would be a lipid test. Please just be aware if you get dry skin issues after a while of increased three intake and mention to your advisor. (Coconut intake is meant to help re dry skin). It is hugely complex.


Omega three and six mother fats 18:2 n6 and 18:3 n3 can only be got from food

The body us and animals (chickens, fish etc) can make the longer chain children EPA and DHA etc from the mother fats. But in humans this process is blocked by lots of things including trans fats, sugar, alcohol, mineral deficiencies, some drugs (many have not been tested as to their impact on the fats pathways hence my questions on Herceptin etc) diabetes, general poor health and some may be less genetically disposed to convert (shore dwellers).

Women convert about 10% of the mother fat five times more than men. So this is a real "women's issue". It links to hormones fertility monthly cycles ovarian issues BC risk... it is a very long list.....

Because of a combination of blocking of pathways, lack of oily fish in the diet,
and animals like us reflect what they eat so our commercially raised chicken etc are omega six heavy, most are likely to be short of the long chain children of omega three.

They are called long chain because they are made from a string of carbons a bit like a daisy chain. The number first number is the number of carbons the second the number of double bonds n22:6 DHA twentytwo carbons six double bonds.

They each have a unique shape and properties and are not interchangeable if you want premium performance. In an emergency if none of the desired fat is available the body will use another but it it a bit like using the wrong petrol in the car eg leaded - unleaded - it simply does not work as well and in the long term will have consequence.

Here is the nutrition data link
http://www.nutritiondata.com/topics/fatty-acids
Enter your food. At the end of the page on the right hand side is a summary of fats giving total omega threes and sixes.

If it is an n3 it is an omega three
If it is an n6 it is an omega six

And 22:6 n3 is DHA
20:5 n3 is EPA

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20p1.html

This is flaxseed. It has no DHA or EPA

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c213j.html

This is mackerel which has lots of DHA and some EPA as well as other omega threes.



LONG CHAIN OMEGA THREES

Unfortunately there are not many sources of long chain threes - omega eggs but not too many a week one or two (but each to their own) - oily fish - offal contains a little but not much - vegetarian products more expensive and not very easy to find.

And fish oil - made from liver or body. - liver has higher A and D and the two have different profiles - often products are a mix so check the labels.

HOW MUCH FISH OIL

Purification has improved and it does not taste foul any more.

Any quality brand but the best.

Bottled is cheaper and for me more convenient.

http://www.vitacost.com/productResul...Ntt=fish%20oil

They do an own brand and Carlsons here. I have used the Carlsons and it has virtually no smell and tastes of not much more than lemons. I also use a brand from a local pharmacy.

It depends on other sources in your diet etc. A trial suggested that uptake in a woman's body drops off at about 2 grams of DHA a day - 4-6 tps of a quality fish oil a day - check the label.

There are no absolute answers many trials for other conditions use more. Your body may have stored omega sixes etc.

Check with your doctor as fish oil thins the blood - mention pre ops etc.


WATCH ITEMS (High omega six sources)

Vegetable and seed oils - generally very high in omega six except virgin olive, flaxseed, canola and a few others check or better apart from the latter cut them out of your diet.

Nuts - Nuts are great sources of nutrition BUT are hihg in omega six so moderation, maybe a small palmful of mixed high three seeds and a mix of nuts a day.

Margerines - these are made from veg oils so likley will be high in n6s and some contain trans fats

Processed food - check the labels for veg oil - most contain them and in surprising quantites so dependent on how serious you want to be they are out. - crisps chips - frying oils etc.


ALTERNATIVES

There are a lot of arguments for using a tiny amount of coconut fat / cream or butter a scrape an ounce a two a week. It adds to variety. A number of positive claims are made for fats in both - but there are no absolute arguments and there are different viewpoints.


I hope this helps. There is lots on the web.


RB
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