French medical system - Page 2

hutchibk · 11-03-2008, 07:32 AM

I never signed on to an employer's insurance plan (after my 3 years in the early 90's on an HMO that an employer provided, yikes)... I always sought out my own individual insurance. The employer plans sucked. I figured if I was going to have to pay a portion of it monthly, I wanted to choose the amenities and parameters. It cost me a little bit more, but not much (maybe $75 at the time) and I always had a far superior plan.

StephN · 11-03-2008, 12:39 PM

My medical cost now may be less than I would pay if I lived in France!

I should say that I am now on early Medicare with a supplemental that includes prescriptions. I have the most inclusive plan I could find, and it does not cost much more than the others out there.

But, I was with Brenda in that since we have a small business my medical plan (since I was age 36) was an Individual Preferred Provider plan and was not cheap. Fortunately I had a business to pay for it as a benefit, but that meant I took a smaller paycheck in exchange for that benefit.

But something (like an inner voice) told me that I should DO THAT. So, I went without some things and personal services that some women find important. But, I knew I would never have to "go broke" from an unexpected disease or accident. Peace of Mind does not come free.

There was a while in the 80's that I had a string of auto accidents - 5 out of 6 were other people's fault. The other one I was blinded by the setting sun and did not see a small car jumping a light. I was able to have any medical care I needed at that time and was extremely lucky never to be very seriously hurt.

I am thankful that I had that insurance as my coverage was very good when I had to begin treating my cancer. Yes, I did have a deductable and annual stop loss to pay, but you can make payments over the year so the bite is not so big.

Jackie07 · 11-03-2008, 01:05 PM

My family has been suggesting for me to go back to Taiwan since they have universal insurance there. Since I was born and raised there, I will be allowed to have insurance coverage after I stay there for a year and have my citizenship recovered. The insurance cost will be only 1/4 of what I am paying here.

I have not figured out how my husband can get covered there. But one possible plan is to go back there and stay with my parents in their new 4 bed-room apartment (ready to move in in 2009 - those rooms are very, very tiny in American standard.)

My family think that I can make a fortune tutoring English there - especially if Jack is co-teaching with me since he is a genuing American. But they say it is totally up to me and my energy level.

My father is 93 and his health and cognitive function has been falling lately. I've contacted my current insurance company and been told that I will be covered while I am overseas. If I go January, 2009, I will have enough time to get covered by the insurance there before my COBRA runs out.

The biblical concept is against a 'world government'. But wouldn't it be nice if the whole world is insured and all the plans are transferrable without conditions?

My Father-in-law listened to my Mother-in-law 4, 5 years ago and bought a long-term care insurance. Now my Mother-in-law's nursing home expense is around $30,000. Medicare pays for half of it. And with the long-term care insurance, he saves about $5000.00 a years (compared to not having the long-term care insurance.)

Rich66 · 11-03-2008, 11:54 PM

I think one thing to consider in other countries is whether newer cancer treatments are available. For instance, I am signed up to get google alerts on many drugs and treatments. Here is a "new" alert I got today:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking55.htm

hutchibk · 11-04-2008, 12:28 AM

I have offered the same point of view in the past, Rich. I wouldn't be here now if I lived in Ireland... I have been on lapatinib for over 18 months already, it will be some time before they complete their trials and it is readily available in Ireland.

Rich66 · 11-04-2008, 10:53 AM

Closer to home, in terms of folks here, looks like Kathy in Tokyo is up against a lack of access to Tykerb. Although, in Japan, they have S1 which may be similar to Xeloda..but might be better for some.

caya · 11-04-2008, 11:34 AM

Just had to jump in here - Brenda, I am glad you have access to Tykerb, believe me. But would it not be nice if every American citizen, had access to it - without insurance hassles?

I am not sure if Tykerb is available yet here in Canada - it may not be - just like Ireland was slower to get it. I would hope that the US would be the frontrunner in getting the most cutting edge drugs approved before any other developed nation - with all the money that is spent on insurance and research, the US statistically should be out front. (But I have to point out once again that Canada got Herceptin approval for early stagers before the States did).

Once again, I am not saying that the Canadian univeral medical system is perfect - it is not. I just think is more just and humane if EVERY CITIZEN gets equal coverage, without having to stay in a job they hate, or lose, or have to mortgage their house for treatment. It is a basic human right, JMHO. I don't know if you have kids Brenda, but I can tell you that when our first daughter was born (after a totally uneventful pregnancy) there were complications with her birth and she had to stay in the NICU for 10 days. It was a trying time for my husband and I, and I thank G-d I did not have to worry about medical bills, or insurance forms to fill out, or worry about if my daughter would get the best medical care. At the time, nearly 23 years ago, they told me in the States her care would have cost well over $100,000. I can only imagine the horror of not being able to pay for it. When you are seriously ill, you should only have to worry about getting better, not fighting with HMOs and insurance companies about whether or not this scan is necessary, or this drug is covered etc.

JMHO. I truly am grateful for all the medical advances that originated in the United States. I just think that medical health care should be available for all - equally.

Diana1993 · 11-04-2008, 12:33 PM

Caya, Tykerb is not available in Canada. My onc. tried to get me in a clinical trial but I didn't meet all the criteria. I have been in contact with Glaxo Smith Kline and they said it is now up to Health Canada to approve it.(In the past I have written to former Health Minister,Tony Clement and Health Canada with no glimmer of hope) That said, I could get it in the U.S. with a price tag of $3600. a month, and I wasn't able to afford that price tag. I'm on Xeloda $800.00 and it is covered by my private insurance, Blue Cross. Last month they had me fill out a 'special authorization' form. I believe, rightly or wrongly they were trying to download the drug on our Provincial Trillium plan. In the end, they ok'd the drug for another 6months. There went my secure thinking that I had all basis covered. My tumour numbers are on the incline again so I may not need Xeloda after another 6 months.
Brenda, we all agree that our health care systems are strained. You said it well in a previous post.
I'm glad I live in Canada and alive 15 years after a Stage II dx and 8 years after Stage IV dx. For this I give thanks to my health care system and of course the countries developing new drugs and the courageous people in the trials.
We are all in this together and outcomes all the same at some point.
Hugs to all,
Diana.

hutchibk · 11-04-2008, 12:46 PM

Hi Caya, respectfully, that was not the conversation that Rich was having. He was talking about the lag time to access.

There are also often questions about whether access will ever be available through some national health services due to cost/benefit ratios and how much of the $$ pie can be dedicated to it... as I understand it, it has not been approved in the UK for wide access, nor in Japan as he mentioned.

I have my views and you have yours. Respectfully again, please discontinue highlighting me to make your argument, especially to insinuate that I might be an ogre who doesn't believe it should be available to everyone without hassle. That is unfair and disingenuous.

I have done some pretty extensive personal research about how complex it is to transform health systems, so I am well versed in how emotional the subject is. I know how financially fragile and controversial health systems around the world are in all countries, including Canada. You will not convince me that the system in your country is the appropriate system for our country. Your system works for you, you live there and have grown accustomed to it your whole life. I am happy you have a system that works for you and you have the treatment that you desire. I too have had everything I need and desire and have had the highest quality of doctors and treatments I could ever hope for. I was also a very responsible individual who always made having insurance a priority. I never thought of it as a right or a entitlement, it is my responsibility. I still feel that way. However, I do believe that our insurance system and processes have become extremely unbalanced and out of whack, it is upside down and the consumer is on the wrong end of it. I believe much of it can be corrected without rushing toward nationalizing it in the fashion that some countries have.

For the record, GSK makes Tykerb very readily available. If you don't have appropriate insurance coverage you can get it through their access program, you just have to apply and qualify for it, which is fairly simple to do.

Thanks for your post Diana. I am not looking for a fight from anyone, and I hope I don't offend, either. I just have a very pragmatic and ever evolving view about it.

caya · 11-04-2008, 02:21 PM

Hi Brenda,

Also respectfully, I did not mean to highlight or offend you, or anyone else. If I did so, I absolutely apologize. I too am not looking for a fight from anyone, but as you say, we each have our own views about the cost and administration of health care.

I guess the basic philosophical difference between Canada and the US is that here we feel universal health care is a right to all citizens. I would not exactly call it "entitlement", just a decent equity among all citizens.

Thanks Diana for letting me know that Tykerb is not available in Canada. I will discuss this with my onc. this week at my 3 month check up. Hopefully I will never need it, but I certainly would like it available here to anyone who does need it. Also thanks for reinforcing that we are all in this together - We need to find a cure ASAP.

I wish everyone well. Again I apologize if I offended anyone.

all the best
caya

Carolyns · 11-04-2008, 05:52 PM

Hi All,

This is a very educational discussion and I appreciate it. I am nervous about insurance every day as a Stage IV mets girl still able to work full time. My insurance pays an enormous amount annually to keep me alive. I am covered under a group policy and things will change when I can no longer work.

Anyway, I have a question about care in Canada for mets girls. Someone told me that you may only receive two lines of chemo as a bc mets patient in Canada. Does anyone know if that is true? I am in the US and have gone through 4 different chemos (plus Tykerb & Herceptin) so far in the past 2 & 3/4 years. Treatments seem to work for about 6 months. I am living with mets and consider myself on the leading edge of a new trend to live long and healthy with mets. There are many others like me here on this site. In order to live long most of us need access to expensive drugs over the long haul. I worry that someone may try to limit my access to chemo since I am not seen as someone who can be cured and it is very expensive to keep me alive.

Does anyone know if a bc mets patient in Canada can continue to be treated with chemo like we can in the US? I am just curious with all of the talk about change in our insurance since people like me are in the small minority and a new breed...living with mets.

Thanks, Carolyn

hutchibk · 11-04-2008, 09:47 PM

That is a good question Carolyn. I have never heard that about Canada, but I personally knew of a story in the UK about 6 years ago... a dear friend's sister died from metastatic breast cancer because she had gone through all of the options that were limited by national health care, and it would not pay for her to continue or change to any new treatments as she was deemed terminal - it would essentially have been what the system considered "a waste of time and health care $$"... It reminds me of what almost happened to a man named Randy Stroup in Oregon this past summer. He is a stage 4 prostate cancer patient who is covered under their state universal health care experiment called Oregon Health Plan, and they originally turned down his treatment as "too pricey" and offered to pay for assisted suicide instead... luckily he took it to the media, and they relented and let him have the treatment. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392962,00.html

And a similar occurence with a friend's wife in Australia 7 years ago with stage 4 ovarian cancer. She chose to stay on treatment as long as she could, but their healthcare system would not pay for things such as neupogen or good anti-emetics and pain relievers since she was considered terminal and it could end up being a "waste of money and resources". Believe it or not, she is still here today, but her journey was not an easy one, that's for sure.

Caya, no harm, no foul. No offense taken, but it seemed you might be singling me out as an "opponent", and I prefer to not play that role. There are lots of differing opinions. I am not the only one who is not in agreement with your point of view, and I certainly know you are not the only one who sees things differently from me...