Nutrition and recurrance??

For those that have recurred....may I asked if you changed your diet dramatically from initial dx (e.g. organic, more veggies, green tea, supplements, etc?)

My mother has become a self proclaimed nutrition expert after spending a week at CCA. While I don't have a problem with modifying my diet somewhat, she told me she is going to put me on a "strict" diet as soon as the herceptin is over to prevent a recurrance (she's worried that if something happens to me she'll never see her grandkids, but that's another story). I told her that I believe diet can help, but I know there are people that drastically change their diet and recur anyway. I really believe, if God chooses to let it happen it will, and I can't control that. I have to trust Him either way. I just don't want her to have false expectations nor do I want her to make me feel guilty every time I have a cookie.

So, if I may ask, did any of you that recurred have a good, healthy organic diet prior to that? I just want to share with her that diet can't completely prevent recurrance. I am so sorry that any of you are dealing with it in the first place. This disease breaks my heart and spirit some days. Thanks in advance for your help.

Don't know from person experience but I do have second hand knowledge. My friend after dx went on a microbiotic diet and was strict about it. She did this for about 9 months and her cancer got worse. The plus side was that she felt healthy and did loose a lot of weight after gaining on chemo.

I am no expert but I have done A LOT of reading on the subject. Since my initial dx my diet continues to go through a metamorphous. I looked at my life style and diet prior to the dx and made the adjustments from there. As far as your post, it is like you want to be convinced that a diet change is necessary. Who knows if dietary changes make a difference but there are articles showing that some foods and supplements help control or inhibit HER2/neu and perhaps that is what you should be focusing on.
Kathy

Good nutrition is an important part of wellness and healing. Having a low sugar diet and eating healthy, with no prossed foods with lots of vegetables and some fruits is probably good advice. Limit high fat foods, using flaxseed oil olive/canola oil, and avocados. Sugar has no nutition benefit and can feed cancer cells if highly available. Hi-cholesterol foods should be avoided, but keep up your healthing eating and get with a good fitness plan that has a good impact on your total health. There is alot nutrition to be found here in our index.

I've played around with this subject since I was Dx 4 years ago. I have tried the juicing. I gave up all milk products and I have used all kind of supplements. The bottom line is I still had reoccurances. I'm to the point now that I eat healthy but I also eat foods that I enjoy when the craving hits. I think about Paul Mcartneys wife, she was a vegg. and still died from breast cancer. Patty H

I haven't had a recurrence, but my primary developed during the last 4 or 5 years. Five years ago I started a very strict diet because I found out that I had severe food allergies. No dairy, no porc, no beef, no alcohol, no coffee, no black tea, no wheat, no soy, no chocolate, no corn, no potatoes, etc. etc. I ate a diet of lots of fish, some chicken, rabbit, lamb or duck, lots of vegetables and fruits, lots of juices, green tea, rooibos tea and nuts. I took multivitamins, got rid of my amalgam fillings, did a mercury detox, took several supplements and got breastcancer anyway. The diet may work for some, but it didn't for me. Jacqueline

Yeah - my mouth is full of amalgam fillings and it would cost me a fortune to get rid of them - or the equivalent of one treatment of Herceptin/Zometa!!!
What I see generally with all my survivor friends and aquaintences at the cancer center is that these women HAD good diets and were pretty fit to begin with. Some of us are even quite athletic and have been all our lives. I agree with a post farther down this list that the chemicals in the environment have to have something to do with our disease.
In my home town they sprayed for mosquitoes in the canyon at the end of our street and for who knows what in the vineyards across the street. In fact both houses my parents built were on the edge of Concord grape vineyards. The second house was build on a lot that was a former peach orchard and we ate things grown in that back yard as well as the neighbors. Who know how much DDT and other bad stuff I ingested.
But I do not blame my parents or any one else. I just became aware of what had been done to the environment when I took a practical chemistry class in college that went a lot into the ways the planet has been polluted.

[kat in the delta]

Hi y'all ,
This is just what i have been reading about lately. I have read that we need to have a more alkaline (base) body, instead of an Acidic body because diseases like cancer thrive in an acid environment....So I've started looking up FOODS THAT NEUTRALIZE ACID in the body...I was surprise to see oranges and apples as being alkaline..Also, I have read that we all need to detox. our colons, liver, etc.... Like with a colon cleanser,,,,,do this first before adding in the proper balance of foods with the majority being alkaline or base like fruits and veggies and H20--and still keep some meats which I found out were more ACID !! We need to keep our bodies at a ph of around 7 --I read in one place. Also, we need to sleep 8 hrs at least, which as you can see by the time, I am not doing well at this. We need to be aware of electomagnet chaos, too ---like the microwave, appliances etc, and we need to wear some neutalizing (?) maybe bracelet.....and last of all we need to learn to deal with or try to eliminate STRESS, the hardest of all.....stress increases Acid in the body......Want to help me with lists of foods separated into Acid, Alkaline, neutral, or the highs and lows of each.....We Can control our imput of food, if any of these factors.....What does anyone think ?? rsvp KAT

[R.B.]

There is not and question that diet alters gene expression (and that includes BRAC and HER 2) (like a graphic equalizer on your stereo you can alter the gene levels in your body - food does that / you can also improve your gene "health" in terms of protecting them from harm)

Gene expression variation alters body function and the risk of cancer.

The difficulty is identifying what is important. There is so much information out there sifting it is not easy.

If you read widely on the subject I think it is difficult to remain unconvinced diet does not play a part. There are lots of mechanisms by which diet influences body function.

It is a complex subject. There will always be exceptions.

You may find this thread interesting. For me it is one of the diet basics and possibly the least appreciated. (understanding and balancing the omega threes and sixes)

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ght=greek+diet

RB

[Becky]

I believe that diet is one of the key components to good health with exercise being the other. But it is not just any diet - such as keeping calories low or a low fat diet. I believe that the components of what one eats is absolutely critical. Fats should be kept to a minimum and I think only extra virgin olive oil or canola oil (canola to a minimum over olive) should be used. In general, after that, one should follow the Meditterean diet - lots of fish, veggies, fruit, whole grains and nuts. Although tea is not a part of this diet, add it in for good measure. Green and white tend to contain the most antioxidants than black but all teas are good. Yogurt is also a great food. Check labels like a hawk. Watch what kind of oils are used and if sugar or high fructose corn syrup are used - don't buy these products. There are some products out there that are fine but it takes a hunt to find them.


Walk, walk, walk all you can so that you walk 2-4 miles at least 5 times a week. Do it outside for fresh air and at least some vitamin D.

Will this work against a recurrence? Many clinical studies say so. Walking 5-15 miles per week can reduce a recurrence by 16% to 41% (works better for hormone negative women - probably due to the little investigated IG receptor (insulin) - exercise reduces insulin levels in the blood - this is IMHO only)). Low fat diet reduces recurrence by 21% (watch what kind of fat and balancing the omega 3s and 6s like RB has been teaching us for over a year now).

Just my dollar's worth

Becky

[RobinP]

Hi Rose, how are you. Good to see you up here on her2. I certainly think a cookie now and then is fine. However, at the same time, I really do advocate exactly what Becky has mapped out above. Not only MAY it help prevent a reoccurence, but it is good preventive medicine for other disease ailments. I also advocate oats in the diet to help bind the estrogen receptor and reduce cholesterol, a precurso of estrogen. You may look into supplements too, I use a general multi vit. with calcium- for female bone health. Take care.


PS Your mom is sweet to take an interest in your health.

[Bev]

Hi Rose, It makes sense that diet could play some role. I like veggies, fish and olive oil. Exercised lots, had low bad cholesterol and high good cholesterol. I think there is something else, environmental or genetic. I'm just disappointed that my years of good behavior didn't stave off cancer for another 20 years or so.

Do the healthy things that aren't a big sacrifice. Vitamins are easy. Exercise can be fun. Cutting back sugar is possible. Carbs all eventually turn to sugar, but don't beat yourself up.

I've reduced my standards as they didn't work the first time around. Cut back exercise, I was at 5 hours a week cardio. I just have other things I want to do with my time. All our cancers are unique. Some may respond to diet and exercise. I just think there's more to it and we don't have the complete picture yet. Do search all the nutritional data that RB has posted. It may work for you. BB

[lindyjo]

I can't find it right now, but somewhere in the posts, I remember seeing someone recommend, flaxseed and soy and omega 3 fatty acids. In the summer issue of Women & Cancer, it says that these things are not good for people with breast cancer. I read that Soy can mimmick (sp?) estrogen and cancer cells can feed on it. It says that conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) supplements are beneficial but I found that it is extremely expensive.

[astrid]

I changed my diet because I feel better eating fruits and vegetables. I still eat meat, red meat only occasionally and chicken, mostly fish. I try to eat fish at least twice a week. . If it was guaranteed that if you ate a vegetarian diet with the right omega 3 fats then no healthy women who followed that diet would ever get breast caner and all the over weight women who eat hamburgers and ice ream would get breast cancer. We know this is not rue, but there is evidence that a healthy diet can help your body’s our immune system fight cancer cells. Below is information I got from a nutritional, it is much too strict for me but the guidelines are worth sharing. One thing to note is that sugar raises insulin so if you want to eat cookies go for it but do it after a full meal NEVER on an empty stomach.



Your daily diet should be primarily plant-based. The vegetable kingdom is filled with cancer-fighting compounds like flavonoids, terpenoids, carotenoids, and hundreds of other phytochemicals. Eat more vegetables: 10-12 servings per day is the therapeutic ideal, according to the NCI. Practically speaking, of course, this is not feasible. A variety of whole grains, legumes, and vegetables is always a good idea nutritionally speaking. Try to emphasize variety in your diet, not eating the same thing every day. This is better for you nutritionally and for your digestive health. The overall plan is a light breakfast, then a substantial lunch (emphasizing protein from healthy sources, and plenty of vegetables), and then a lighter dinner, with more vegetables, pasta and less protein. Lower your intake of animal protein (except for whey protein) as much possible. If you have animal protein, have it at lunch and then take a walk or, if feasible, engage in some form of physical activity afterward; also, eat your vegetable protein (legumes, nuts, seeds) at dinner. Poultry should be kept to a minimum; fish is a better source of animal protein for regular consumption.

[astrid]

CARBOHYDRATES. Good carb foods include whole-grain pastas and unground whole grains such as long-grain brown rice, pearl barley, barley, quinoa, and rye berries (which can be cooked with rice) are fine. These grains should be combined with beans or bean products whenever possible. Whole grains and beans are high in fiber, and fiber-rich diets may improve your prognosis by reducing insulin resistance [Cancer. 1996; 78(12):2465-70; Integr Cancer Ther. 2003; 2(4):315-29]. There is evidence that whole-grain fiber has many beneficial effects on estrogen metabolism, digestive health, and weight maintenance for women with breast cancer. Weight reduction due to increased exercise and high-fiber, low-fat diet may improve prognosis [Cancer 1995; 76:275-83]. Most research to date indicates that a diet low in sugary foods and high in fiber-rich complex carbohydrates is the most successful way to maintain normal weight. Keep in mind that pastas are the most benign form of high-carb food because they elicit such a gradual rise in blood sugar. Also, as an aside, many low-carb diets fail because they result in severe mood swings and depressive tendencies (due to serotonin imbalances). Good carb foods like whole grains and pastas have a calming effect on the mind.
PROTEINS. Protein is important for maintaining immune function and lean-body mass, namely muscle. Animal protein generally should be tempered. Emphasize beans (aduki beans, black turtle beans, etc.), hummus (or other bean spreads), nuts and seeds as regular sources of dietary protein. Beans, well cooked and well chewed, are excellent for keeping your blood sugar levels moderate. High-quality protein sources include (1) whey protein (which is included as a supplement); (2) fish (note: avoid swordfish and tuna and instead try canned salmon), and (3) egg whites, preferably from free-range chickens. Goat cheese may be used in moderation – goat gouda is a good choice and tasty too. Be sure to get at least 2-3 servings of protein each day; preferably eat 3-5 servings on days when you are more physically active. In general, the research shows that some animal proteins (e.g., casein, which is abundant in dairy products) tend to promote malignant growth, while plant proteins inhibit malignant growth.

[astrid]

FATS. Certain fats – namely saturated fat from land-animal products, and omega-6 fats from corn oil or safflower oil -- have been shown to accelerate the progression of breast cancer. A low-fat diet is generally best and has been associated with improved survival in women with breast cancer [J Clin Oncol. 2002; 20(15):3302-16]. At least eleven studies to date indicated that diets low in total fat or saturated fat, or those that contain more omega-3 fats, will slow the progression of breast cancer and prolong survival [e.g., Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2004; 13(7):1163-72; Breast Cancer Res Treat 1999; 53:241-53; Breast Cancer Res Treat 1998; 51:17-28]. Note that most low-fat diets are deficient in omega-3, and higher levels of omega-3 are correlated with improved response to conventional treatment as well as lower recurrence rates overall [Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S109; World Rev Nutr Diet. 2003;92:133-51]. Please heed the following tips for use of dietary fats:

• For cooking (stir-fry or sauté vegetables), use coconut oil (for regular cooking) and palm kernel oil (for hot frying).

• Occasional use of cold-pressed canola oil or butter for cooking is also permitted.

• For salads, use olive oil and rice bran oil.

• Nuts and seeds can be a good source of fat as well.

• For toast or with bread, use olive oil (raw virgin), tahini, and hummus.

• Avoid corn, sunflower, and safflower oils.

• Avoid all meats (except fish) and dairy products (except for occasional yogurt and goat cheese).

• Avoid hydrogenated oils or trans fats (e.g., margarine and many processed foods)

[astrid]

LAND & SEA VEGETABLES: It is important to include two meals with vegetables each day, for the fiber and added nutrition. Emphasize more variety; try eating more collards, kale, cabbage, chard, Brussel sprouts, and broccoli. At least five studies to date have reported a significant association between high-vegetable intake and survival after a diagnosis of breast cancer [J Clin Oncol 2002; 20(15):3302-16]. Also try eating more sweet-tasting vegetables like carrots, daikon radish, and onions, steamed for enhanced sweetness. Use cookbooks to help motivate you to try new combinations. I would recommend that you try seaweeds like dulse and alaria, which you can order in bulk through the Maine Seaweed Company in Steuben, Maine. Seaweed compounds (fucans, fucoidan) have been shown to inhibit tumor invasion [Anticancer Res. 2002; 22(4):2285-92]. Dulse is very soft and easy to digest – it will literally melt into already cooked grains or beans as long as they are hot when the dulse is mixed in. This is by far the cheapest way to get seaweed and it’s excellent quality. Their URL is: www.alcasoft.com/seaweed/

You can call them at: (207) 546-2875



Regarding fruits: Epidemiological studies in the form of meta-analyses suggest that fruits are not protective against breast cancer though vegetables are [Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):559S-569S; Eur J Cancer. 2000 Mar;36(5):636-46]. This appears to be the case for both risk and survival studies. If you do have fruits, try to have them in whole form rather than cooked, pureed or juiced – the latter will tend to stimulate insulin, which can then contribute to breast tumor growth. Whole fruits would be preferable because of a more gradual glucose/insulin response.

[astrid]

Notes on foods to avoid or minimize. To follow a low-fat diet, you will need to avoid rich foods like ice cream, cheeses, roast beef, and hamburgers. Avoid or minimize all animal protein with the exception of fish, whey, egg whites, and occasional small portions of poultry (free range). Try to buy your groceries at natural food stores whenever possible as opposed to the supermarket. Keep in mind that refined carbohydrates or high-glycemic foods (i.e., those foods that raise glucose levels very easily, such as most breads, white flour products, candy, and fruit juice) tend to be cancer feeders and can also feed low-level inflammation. Therefore, avoid refined carbohydrate (all white flour products) or sugary foods. Also avoid fruit juice and fruits in general on an empty stomach; these will be rapidly absorbed, some studies have suggested that high fruit intakes correlate with higher breast cancer risk [Am J Clin Nutr. 2003; 78(3 Suppl):559S-569S]. Explore the many non-dairy substitutes on the market. Many of these are soy products, but there are many other options as well, such as almond milk. Avoid additives as much as possible. Read the label and buy from natural food stores as much as possible. You can be more relaxed about eating refined carbs. Keep alcohol intake low (glass of red wine on occasion, but not on an empty stomach).

[R.B.]

Astrid thanks - Clear well written posts, split into digestible chinks.

Good post!!.

For those who are interested there is Rhonda's breast cancer diet post, and my posts on omega threes and sixes and diet generally. I am afraid they are complex but the subject is not simple. Just try and get the gist if you do have the time to look at them. This is not original thought. I am just trying to convey or highlight the work of others.


http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ght=greek+diet

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...st+cancer+diet


There is no question you can alter your gene expression with diet including HER2 and BRAC.

The omega three six balance is probably one of the most over looked factors on those who otherwise follow the sort of points on diet made by Astrid.

I wish I could give you an instant insight into the impressions I have from all of my reading and why I am so convinced the omega three six balance and particularly the excess of omega six over omega three will be ranked along with smoking as an issue in 20 years from now.

But I cannot but do sincerely suggest if you have the time you skim the Greek diet post which does gives a little insight into why.

Thanks again Astrid for taking the trouble to make those well written well laid out posts.

RB

[Mary Jo]

Hello all,

Thanks for all the informative information you shared. What bothers me about these posts is the thinking that we can somehow control what has happened to us or what could happen to us again in the way of reoccurence. There is enough "guilt" associated with a cancer diagnosis ~ like.............."what could I have done different"...........or "what did I do wrong"................or "I tried to do everything right." Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. It happened. For whatever reason it happened. We definitely should do all we can to keep our bodies healthy. No doubt!!!!!!!!!! Diet and exercise are extremely important, however, I don't feel we have that kind of control. I just don't. If we did then why do those you'd think would get cancer, don't and those you'd think wouldn't, do.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Mary Jo