wanting opinions

[michele u]

This is hard to write. You all are like family. Today is my 20th wedding anniversary. It's not a happy one. Me and my husband have been slowly drifting away for a couple of years. After the initial shock and the cancer, things changed. He wanted everything back to normal. We all know that's impossible. He has become controling and uncaring. He accuses me of not caring about my family when i put my needs in view. He makes me feel like i'm selfous, when i do things that make me happy like ride my horses. Our finances are not good due to mounting debt from medical bills. I have tried to keep it together for along time, but here i sit on a day that should be happy and i'm sad. Not even a card today. My mom see's what he is doing to me. And to top it off my 17 year old son came home drunk last weekend, for the first time, and my husband called the police on him. They came out and ticketed him. Everything seems like it is coming down around me. I feel like i'm doing everything wrong. If i'm not cooking or cleaning my husband thinks i'm not being a good wife. I love my kids and don't want to hurt them. He makes me feel like i'm not being a good mom. Has anyone had this experience with their loved ones? I hope not, but would love the advice. My mom knows that it's getting harder to stay. Here i sit and think if I do die from this my husband will get another life with someone else and be happy, and here i sit now being unhappy and don't get the new chance at happiness. sorry about being a downer but i know you all understand where i'm coming from.My husband came from a family that never showed love. I know he never saw how a good marriage should be, but after this long one would think he could understand. Thanks for letting me vent!

[SusanV]

Michelle,


while I can't say that I have experience in what you are going through, you must know in your heart that you are a wonderful mother, and no one loves your children more than you do. I am sure too that you are giving your family all the attention that you are able. With a cancer dx, that may be less than before...suddenly we do have to put ourselves on "the list" so to speak of people who matter. We do have to take care of ourselves.... I am sorry to hear that you are sad....As far as your son and the drinking, I would say most of the population has experimented with underage drinking. That does not make you a bad parent. That just makes him unlucky for getting caught.

Sending love from PA
Susan V

[chrisy]

Michelle,

My heart breaks to read what you are experiencing. My opinion??? This totally sucks (how's that for an unbiased, unhelpful opinion!). Cancer is so ugly - not enough to wreak havoc on our bodies - it can upend everything in our lives. And challenge even the strongest of relationships.

You have every reason to be angry, sad, scared,whatever. VENT ON! Nothing about this is fair. You of all people deserve to be cherished, supported, pampered! You are such a beautiful person and such an inspiration to us all. I'm sorry your hubby isn't getting with the program. Another unbiased opinion: you need to continue to focus on what gives you strength. Who knows, you may outlive them all!

Unbidden, this thought came and whacked me upside the head, from nowhere (?). I haven't read this book, haven't thought about it in months. It's called "the power of a praying wife". A very dear friend of mine has been struggling in her marriage for several years. This book changed her. No, her husband hasn't changed - but she has. Her entire perspective changed about her relationship and interaction with him. It's now much easier for her to work to address the underlying problems.
As I said, I have not read this book, so you can consider this a very questionable recommendation! But since it popped into my mind, I had to honor that!

Anyway, praying wife or not, my prayers are with you.
Much love,
Chris in Scotts Valley

[Lolly]

Dear Michelle,

Yet another common thread; today is our anniversary too, 32 years for us. Believe me, there have been some challenging times, in fact some very rocky times when I wasn't sure our marriage would survive. I'm sad for you that the "cancer thing" has seemingly brought out a side of your husband that seems cold and unloving. But you know you must continue to take care of yourself first, even if it causes bad feelings between you. Maybe counseling would help him understand that his attitude is causing you unnecessary pain, and he can learn to express his expectations in a more positive way. Please try to convince him to do this for the sake of your marriage, as I really believe that if you've been together 20 years, there's 20 years of love worth fighting for. Hang in there, but it's time for some Heart to Heart talking.

<3 Lolly

P.S. My husband was picked up for drinking and disorderly conduct when he was 15, and when they called his mom to come get him from the police station she was so furious she just told them to "Keep him!" They did talk her into letting him come home, and he learned a valuable lesson: don't get caught

[jag]

Love Is Truly Tested And Pushed To The Edge When A Loved One Is Ill..some People Cant Handle The Stress...you Owe It To Yourself To Be Happy....to Do What Is Needed For You To Stay Well So You Can Be There For Your Family..whether One Is Ill Or Not Life Is Short...i Think The Good Lord Wants Us All To Be Happy..its Not Your Fault You Got Cancer....and For Sure You Shouldnt Be Made To Feel Guilty Or A Bad Person Because You Got Sick...maybe A Heart To Heart Or Counseling Would Help...but Michelle You Deserve To Be Happy....and You Should Continue To Take As Good Of Care Of Yourself As You Can...and Do The Things You Enjoy..god Bless You...all The Best Michelle...and Also Happy Anniversary....

[RhondaH]

so sorry to hear of your troubles. I have never been married (chose NOT to marry Tony's father, though he still wants too, as I never felt it was "right" was, "blinded by love" a few times, but in hindsight I made the best decisions...especially for Tony). My parents were married for 35 years and my father was "verbally" abusive also (was so bad that when my dad was at the airport working on his planes, mom and I would sit in the living room and visit, but as soon as he pulled in, we would retreat to our bedrooms just so as to not "hear it"). The year before my dad retired, my mom left him the day after Christmas (had told me beforehand) and my dad called me TOTALLY shocked (I guess he figured he could treat her like dirt forever). She decided that she was NOT going to spend the rest of her life in misery ESPECIALLY with him retiring and being around all the time. She is SO much happier and the ONLY question people asked her AFTER was, why did she wait so long. Sweetie, you need to do what's best for you and your family. Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[Cathya]

Michelle;

I am so sorry to hear of your sadness. When I went through my separation from my husband (of 16 years) I read all the self-help books I could find. One topic seemed to lead to another. I felt wonderful. I also spent a year going to a child psycologist as my kids were very little back then. We would talk for 15 minutes about the kids and the rest of the time about me. He was wonderful. Best time I ever spent. I'm not suggesting you separate because I do think that many things can be worked out, but I am suggesting that you focus on yourself. I discovered that in my case, in trying to keep everything calm around me I was literally becoming a different person and one that I could not sustain in good mental or physical health. Of yes, another thing I did was take the Myers Briggs personality test. I discovered all sorts of things about myself through that. Much later I had my husband take it and I do regret I hadn't done that earlier as it explained so much about him that was just different from me naturally. God bless Michelle. As they say, life is a journey, not a destination.

Cathy

[tousled1]

Michelle,

My heart goes out to you and I can feel your pain. I don't know what to say to you other than you have to put yourself first. Havng cancer changes each of us and also those who are closest to us. Unfortunately, sometimes those from who we need the most support and comfort seem to either be in denial or unwilling to face the fact that we can not be the person we were before diagnosis.

[Sandy H]

Michelle, I am so sorry to hear this special day is not special for you. It sounds like your husband is in the escape mode which to me can seem selfish but also very hurt inside. I went though the escape mode with my husband and son. I can tell you its not fun and my heart goes out to you. I struggled for a year with this after being diagnosed, had to reach out to friends, went to support groups, went back to church. I made all my burial arrangements, was cleaning house like mad so another woman wouldn't be taking care of my stuff!! I even got a glamour picture taken of myself to prove to the next woman how beautiful his first wife really was!! My husband was in VA counseling for PTSD had been for two years. One day I called his counseler and told her how things were and she said I will work on it!!! I had a hospice volunteer taking me to treatments, she was wonderful. She told me later when things improved she had never walked into such a cold situation as the first day she came to my house. She said my husband was totally shut down and I thought I was dying!! All I could do was sit on the couch and cry!! On her second visit he walked her to her car and opened up to her crying saying he didn't know what to do, what to say, he was loosing me and he felt he was dying along with me. He told her as long as he was working, didn't see me or hear how I was feeling my illness didn't exist!! She said she went home in tears and talked to her husband saying she didn't know if she could help us. She had done this for 12 years! She called her supervisor. She said it was abvious we loved each other very much but could not reach out to each other!! She would come to my house once a week, call me every day on the phone because she wanted to make sure I was o.k. My husband was angry because he felt his life had fallen apart, now close to retirement, we both wanted to travel, go to camp, he felt he had worked all these years (struggling with PTSD, and Vietnam injuries) for nothing. I was feeling the same way as you I would leave this world and he would get another chance of living all over again with someone else. It didn't help me much that I knew life beyond this one was so much better and heaven was a beautiful place with no pain and sadness. Then things started changing we were able to set and talk he shared with me how his support was helping him. I don't know if he ever knew I called or not. Its important to keep praying. If you could get some counseling perhaps, it would help but then again its costly. To sum it up we are closer now then we have ever been. He is no longer working is on disability and that has helped us both. We can help each other with our medical issues. He has as many doctor appointments as I do. You are fortunte to have a Mom for support. I had no family to help me. I will pray that this turns around for you. I don't fully understand this escape mode but for some people they run away rather then to you. It makes us feel like we are poison!! My son came around also as his father talked to him about running from me and living with survivors guilt!! He was 22 at the time and moved out right after my diagnosed. How do you think that made me feel? Sending you a big wrap around hug, if you need to e-mail me please do, my e-mail is here. If you need someone to talk to send me an e-mail and I will give you my phone number. Sorry this is so long, Sandy

[lexigirl]

Michelle,

Oh, I wish I could put my arms around you and give you a big hug. I am sorry that your special day isn't starting out very well. I hope that you will do something nice for yourself. You are a precious lady and I can tell from your posts that you are a super mom. You are focusing on txs and such so that you can continue to be there for your husband and children. That takes a lot of courage and love to go through these experimental txs. You are truly putting your life on the line for your family. I can't imagine what more a man could expect from his wife.

Happy Anniversary. I hope that today will be a new beginning for the next chapter in your book. Do something fun!

Love and Prayers,
Lexi

[Sheila]

Michelle
I can understand when you said he came from a family that didn't show love, or express love.
When I was married the first time, my husband was the same way, his family never showed love, no kiss, no hug, no I love you...I on the other hand came from a surreal family in a sense that I never ever saw my parents argue, my father had so much love for my Mom and love was freely expressed....he never left the house without a kiss goodbye and an I love you....AND HE STILL DOES IT!!!! They will be married 60 years this year....both cancer survivors, and both so in love....they function as a unit....Like I said, I also expected this type of love the first go around...3 children and 19 years later it was still no where to be found...I was a single parent raising 3 children with no help from my husband....I went for counseling, prayed alot, nothing improved. Finally right before 20 years I said ENOUGH. That was 16 years ago, funny how time heals. We are now good friends, but it took getting divorced for him to realize that alcohol, emotional abuse, no love or respect and never being their took a toll on me and the kids. He still shows no love to his children or grandchildren, probably never will...he leaves for IRAQ Sunday, by choice on a government job...will the kids and grandkids ever know him? There are some people, men and women both that feel running away from life events that are uncomfortable is the only answer.... easier to run than face the situation. It is sad that these life altering events sometimes divide people rather that unite them and make them closer....all you can do it keep fighting for yourself, hopefully they will come around....they are the ones that stand to lose by not being there for you!

[MJo]

So much wisdom has been expressed. All I can say is I wish the very best for you. And if you don't take good care of yourself now, of all times, when will you ever take good care of yourself?? MJO

[Audrey]

((((Michele)))) So sorry to read your latest post. You deserve to be cherished after all you've been through! You know you're a great mom, I don't know how he can say that to you. I do think some spouses can't handle the cancer diagnosis and they turn away in fear and kind of harden their hearts so that it won't hurt so much if they lose you. Maybe that's what's happening to your husband. But you've been NED for 3 years now, you would think that would reassure him that you're going to be around for a while! Please don't give up riding your horses and doing what makes you happy! I completely understand the disappointment in not even getting a card. It seems like he just wasn't raised that way and didn't learn to make a fuss over you on special occasions. Maybe he's the kind of guy who shows his love for you by filling up your gas tank and making sure your brakes work, etc., instead of sending roses? Did you ever show him that lovely post from AL from Canada about cherishing your spouse? (Why can't they all be as understanding/compassionate as Al?!)
Wish I could be more helpful--you know I'm here for you--We ALL are!

[Sherryg683]

I"m sorry you are going through this, I can relate. I love my husband dearly and I know he loves me but sometimes men are just so self centered . My birthday was in July, it went by unnoticed, except for my little girl coming in and singing happy birthday to me, she did this in front of my husband but he still did not say a word. We had a big blow out fight on my birthday and I was feeling crappy. Two more weeks went by and he still hadn't given me a card or anything. I finally sat him down calmly and told him how disappointed I was in him and how hurt I was that at this time of my life, he would be so cruel. Of course a few days later the card came, with all sorts of mushy apologies. I know it's hard living with someone who's life has totally changed, and not for the better. It's hard on them, but they have to realize what we are going through. I sometimes think that they resent us for being sick. And as far as your son, my 17 year old son took off on a 600 mile trip to Houston a few weeks after I was diagnosed. I had asked him to please come to church with me but instead, he and a couple of friends took his car and off they went. They turned their cell phones off and didn't get back till 2:00 in the morning. I was frantic with fear and anger. His cousin ratted on him and finally called me and told me where they were. There have been quite a few drunk nights and sneaking out with him. He has calmed down quite a bit now, but was pretty wild there for awhile. Teenagers are pretty much totally self centered. My little 8 year old girl has been the only thing here that has been totally loving and sweet to me. When I had radiation, she would rub cream all over my burns, sometimes I think it's she that keeps me going. I don't have any great words of advise or I'd use them myself. Maybe you should do what I did. I went out and bought myself such an expensive birthday gift that I doubt he'll ever forget to buy me a present again. We've been through hell, we deserve a little peace in our lives. Just letting you know that I"m sorry you are having to go through this..sherryg683

[mts]

Michelle-

I really feel your sadness and fear. I think many of us feel like you do... I believe that happiness in many ways is like sadness. Both are either above or below a line in living. I don't know anyone or thing that is permanently happy (even puppies get sad when the master is not around). I also believe that many marriages can't communicate. Often times the message is blurred once it gets into the other person's brain.
Reading your letter is perfectly clear to me... I see quite a bit about how you want to live by your comments on how things are not going on as you would hope! Could you print it and give it to him so he can read it like we are?

I usually tend to give men the benefit of doubt because they don't feel or see things like women do. We attach our feelings to everything... Your husband sounds like he too is dealing with quite a bit. We all lash out most at the ones we love. I bet he has the same fears as you but cannot express them.

Plan an evening with him, get a sitter and go have a nice dinner. It does not need to be expensive...You are obviously the solid minded one of the relationship and perhaps you have to do the extra work necessary to get him to understand what is going on in your heart and mind. Fear is a terrible thing too. But not being able to discuss those fears is worse. A little relationship "time management" could help too. My husband and I have a date night every Saturday regardless. I have also found that foot rubs are really the way to his heart!

Have you thought about counseling? If you are still working, many employers have an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) that covers several free sessions of counseling at no charge to the employee despite having insurance...its a great program. His job might offer it also. Call the HR office and see if it is available...

I certainly do not have the perfect marriage nor do I have perfect children. Cancer has made me totally imperfect. When I was first diagnosed, I used cancer as an excuse for everything going wrong in my life. It certainly did simplify my life... I have streamlined, I say NO better, I make better weekend plans, I take more charge than ever before and that has helped me cope better with the diagnosis. Yes, cancer and all the drugs that go with it do give physical side-effects, but no one really talks about the mental side-effects...

Hang in there Michelle...it really can be worked out... Just think about all you do to contribute to your family. Its a lot isn't it! Your "value" to your family is huge. Let him see what he is taking for granted.

Warmly,

Maria

[sarah]

Michelle,
I feel very sad for you but everyone has posted great thoughts and advice. I think men are cooler than women and women don't like to ask for things - like a hug, etc but they want it. Men like to be left alone unless they ask for something. Do what will make you happy and well. Local support group, counselling, medication for depression, and keep riding your horses! My husband's was great through my first illness and is still coping with this time - (secretly I think he thinks I should be even more stoic about it all) but I'm not sure he ever sent or gave me a birthday card! or flowers - something I hinted at for years!!! but he'll suddenly just get me something because he thinks it's right for me. Except for some extraordinary ones (some on this site!) men have a really hard time dealing with their loved ones illnesses and don't give us nearly enough hugs.
big hug,
sarah

[saleboat]

Michele,

I don't have any words of wisdom-- I've only been married two years myself. I just felt such a heavy heart reading your post and wanted to wish you a Happy Anniversary. Twenty years is too many to let things just drift away. I hope you can take all the tenancity that you've shown through your diagnosis and treatment and find a way, with your husband, to turn the ship around.

Jen

[MCS]

Michelle,
I'm so sorry to hear about not only yours but the others' problems.

I'm not an expert on this. My only contribution is that unofrtunately I see a little of myself in all of our comments.

BC is hell. I think that if you are older and one of the spouses get ill, it's natural progression of life. When BC hits, it's usually mid life, when everything goes awry anyway - Physicallly and emotionally. Kids are not babies, there is not the adventure or mystery of newlywed.

And yet, I have a herceptin partner that husband left her after only one year of marriage, during which she found she had cancer. He couldn't handle it. I told her that God blessed her getting rid of him.

I just "celebrated" my 25th when my father passed away. Grabs you?

My 20th, my mother in law passed away.

So even though we are together, we have not been able to celebrate these long years together.

My 50th bday, laying down in sofa from chemo.

Vacations are not relaxing, it's like a must to make sure we all have family time.

You are lucky that your mother supports you in your illness or what's going on. My mother cannot discuss with me anything. I have to rely on friends, support groups, all of you.

My heart goes out to all of us. I feel we are all so sick and yet we have to maintain this Barbie, perky attitude towards it all. So that honesty sometimes just cannot happen.

Teenagers, i have a 21 and 18. And they know I'm sick but yet they are into themselves and thier lives. The optimism of youth. That leaves me out cold sometimes but then also would not want them miserable because I'm sick.

I used to work in a powerful position with lots of financial responsibility under me and people to manage and now I'm home because I was laid off and I am so tired I cannot work in the same category. So I lost self esteem, some weeks, my best job is to keep the blinds clean.

There's also lack of sexual intimacy as before bc. We lost our breasts, hair, libido, we are tired, lose self esteem, we are dry as a desert, etc. Come on give me a break here!

I hate to admit this, but I have told my husband that I don't know if I will survive this illness, or our marriage will survive if I get sicker or there's not positive things to look forward and I have even told him that I will not discuss things with him about this illness- guess who, you ladies hear it! Maybe this is not the right approach but are keeping things at bay.

You know, I will say your name in prayer, together with all of the rest. These are nasty, ugly times. But you have to do what's best for you. It's not your issue- remember that. Don't feel guilty about doing things for yourself, but I know how it is.

Ahhh! The horses sound wonderful, I wish I had that. See you're lucky to have them. Hell, talk to them!

XOXO

MCS (maria)

[StephN]

Dear Michele -
So sorry to hear that your anniversary was such a fiasco. We need to get on an up note and stay there to overcome all that this disease hands us. Your Mom is absolutely wonderful support and seems to try to talk with your husband, which is more than many mothers would do.

I heard about this book and author today:
"How to Hug a Purcupine" - Dealing with Toxic and Difficult to Love Personalities.
By Dr. John Lewis Lund.

He is a marriage counselor by profession and I know some people who were on a trip to China with him recently. My friends were VERY impressed with this man and his ideas. Sounds like a book we all should read, huh??

[Karen t]

Dear Michele,

A happy belated 20th anniversary to you. You are not alone - we care about you.

Not sure if this is an option but I asked the oncology social worker at the hospital to help me through a rough patch. He met with me several times, met with my husband a couple times and met with the two of us together several more times. My husband and I had been to marriage counseling a number of years ago but the oncology social worker turned out to be much more helpful for marriage counseling in addition to dealing with major illness in the family. And the sessions were free of charge.

Take care,
Karen