her2 breast cancer cured (when transplanted in mice) using triple targetted therapy

[Lani]

Tarceva is a tyrosine kinase inhibitor of EGFR like IRESSA is. Trying to get different drug companies to cooperate in a clinical trial can be difficult, but perhaps Genentech would be interested in a trial of three of their products.

There is going to be an interesting conference on the biological basis of breast cancer at the end of June with Francisco Esteva, Laszlo Pusztai (sorry about spelling), Carlos Arteaga, Mark Pegram, etc who think deeply about how all the her2 groups interact. It will be held in Santa Monica and will probably be quite
detailed in the molecular biology of breast cancer. These researchers as well as Martine Piccart and Edith Perez as well as George Sledge, Neil Spector and, of course, Dr. Slamon are all truly interested in the multipronged attack necessary in individual breast cancer treatment which is directed and targetted against the molecular "bad actors" driving each particular cancer.

Susan Desmond-Helman(sorry about my spelling--chief scientific officer) and
Pamela Klein (in charge of herceptin) might be good people to ask whether Genentech is interested in starting up such trials

.

Hopefully the length of treatment required with three agents is far shorter than that required with one, or the cost will end up prohibitive.

Am off in the am for Denmark, so may not join back in for a while (until jet lag recovered from and computer setup sorted out)

[Belinda]

Hi Full of Beans. I feel like you do about this. I am going to start with a review of the book mentioned in the posts above. You know, we seem to get a report every day of research advances in BC - yesterday there was a local article on Tykerb. I am blown away that this multi-receptor research hasn't made it into the news at all - it really is an important development, and publicity would help to build awareness, and expectations.

Would love to keep chatting about this.

Would seem that in addition to mutual support, a really good function of this forum could be promotion and collective action. Just not sure how to make that happen.

PS - I have a lot of previous career experience as a trade union activist (early career) and more recently a political and policy adviser to State-level Governments, but in industrial relations, social policy and economics, not in Health. I am thinking a lot about how I can make that experience useful, - not a hard prospect in my own State, but most of the decisions that would need to be influenced are private-sector, international and later national here in Australia - it's a challenge but an interesting one. It's important to find people with energy and/or contacts and/or skills prepared to collaborate to build an international campaign. This site is probably a good place to start.

But, women in all walks of life get BC, so surely there are people who can provide complimentary skills and networks - it is just a matter of finding them.

The reason I want to read the book on the history of herceptin, is that I am just not familiar with the processes required to bring new drugs into the marketplace and into the hands of the women that need them. I think that knowledge will be really important.

At least we can tick the "brains trust" box - Lani is already providing us with the knowledge of the science, which is the ight place to start. (Thank you Lani, again!)

PPS Lani - thanks for your most recent post - the conference sounds good and will no doubt be an important professional network-building event for those very important scientists. Have a safe and productive trip to Denmark.

Belindax

[Belinda]

Well, I finally got Robert Bazell's book - I think it's a very important book. It seems like Herceptin would not be available to us even now were it not for The passionate obsinance of a number of characters, and a whole lot of happenstance. There were so many points at which the process of developing and bringing the drug to market almost went off the rails.

But I am left wondering if it was a freak. The fact that Genentech was a biotech company not a drug company when Trastuzumab was first being explored meant that risks were taken that may not happen in a big pharmaceutical company.

Hopefully not - I know biotech is seen as an 'industry of the future' and I think to be informed and to be able to advocate in the way that many people did for Herceptin (AIDS advocates seemed to be great allies for BC advocates) we need to understand more about biotech companies, and more about how decisions are made about funding for the development of new treatments.

Still exploring.....

[Jean]

What do we do to get it rolling fast!
We as a group (I am sure) would love to help!

Jean

[fullofbeans]

Any news in ASCO regarding the progress on this?

Belinda, just saw your response now and your experience is impressive and you can count me on in term of lobbying! I am French so I am naturally good at this :-)

[TSund]

Jean was kind enough to alert me to this thread. I am replying so that I can hear what all of you bright minds are sharing. Thank-you!

Terri
(spouse of Ruth, dx 5/1, completed 2nd of 6 TCH)

[Belinda]

Good to be working together!!!! Full of Beans try and read the book, if you haven't already. The historical account of how Herceptin got out there is just the best - and there are loads of lessons. Especially in relation to how important it is to do this work collaboratively.

The copy I have was from my onc nurse - it was a complimentary copy that says 'with compliments of Roche" (who bought genentech). Anyone got any contacts at Roche? This book is more useful than many of the dead trees I was given in the form of pamphlets.

I need to learn more about how this whole system works - maybe we can do this together? Maybe we can get enough HER2 women to share knowledge about how trials work, how products are commercialised....

I am in, but it isn't something I can do alone - I need to also build a network of supoprt in Australia. Maybe we need to be exploring more how this wonderful site and medium can be used as a powerful tool for activism!!!

Should we start by posting anything we know about anything at all that might help or any ideas for getting started?

(F.O.B - lol - French people have a formidable history for taking action to sort out problems....with you on board heads might well roll!!!!!!!)

Bxxxxx

[Bev]

Promising news. I am worried that all of us who have done Herceptin already won't be able to access the trio, much like 3 years ago where people who had already done chemo had difficulty obtaining Herceptin. BB

[Belinda]

Bev - I am doing herceptin now - you know what, most of the activists in the Herceptin story were not bc sufferers. I am not sure how trials would work - perhaps someone who knows about trials could help with this question?

BUT what I can share is the thoughts of a dear friend of my husband and I (he was our Best Man) - he has had n-h lymphoma for well over 10 years and has doggedly sought out trials and experimental treatments. He says

"The longer I live, the longer I am going to live".

He means, the longer he stays alive, the longer it is likely that better treatments or even a cure will come through the work of the scientists and the more likely it is that he will live even longer. His aim is to just keep going!

So Bev - the more we work together to bring on the treatments - the more likely we will be able to have access to them, not only in trials but after the trials have given us new treatments, when our previous treatments no longer matter unless they threaten to harm us.

Belindax

[John21]

Very cool. Great post. Let's hope it continues to be researched.

[lilyecuadorian]

make me fell happy and with hope reading this post everytime I wish we know something more about the same .....how we can help ???

[lilyecuadorian]

the Breast Center at Baylor College of Medicine

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[eric]

I've been unable to find any trials with this exciting triple combo. Does anyone know why this isn't moving forward faster?
Eric

[fullofbeans]

I wrote to them about a year ago, they answered that they were thinking about it..

There might be the issue of lvf problem i suppose but yes I agree eric it seems to be taking time. I hope Lani sees this as she may have more answer for us.

[Joan M]

It seems as if the trial is going to be designed only for those who are newly diagnosed.

I wonder whether anyone will do a trial for women with advanced HER2+ bc.

"A clinical study using drug combinations in newly diagnosed patients with HER-2 positive breast cancer will start soon under the direction of physicians at BCM's Breast Center, said Osborne."

[eric]

That would be very disappointing.

[TSund]

Our onc told us she and others were giving Herceptin "off-label" before trial was done for early stage. Perhaps some oncs would be willing to give this trio to those that don't qualify for the trial in the the same manner.

[Jean]

Lani,
As always big heartfelt thanks on your recent posting.
Now, dear one what can we do to push this forward?

Jean

[Lani]

First TSund--the reason herceptin could be given off-label adjuvantly for bc was that herceptin was already approved for metastatic bc. That is the point of the term "off-label" use--it is use of a drug already approved for a different
indication for another disease/affliction for which it is not yet (or ever) approved.

Jean--I thought the way to move this forward was to help the researchers at Baylor get a hold of specimens and histories of her2+ patinets--especially her2+ER+ patients. When I last spoike up about this at an ASCO poster exhibit
I think it was with the Susan Komen people, they offered me a handout regarding how Komen could help with this and what they were already doing.

It had been many many months since I had heard from/tumor repository" and only about 5% or those who read the original post about how many would donate their specimen and give access to their records responded, causing me feel my efforts were better directed elsewhere.

I have been in touch with the Baylor people (saw them at ASCO and the Era of Hope), pointing out to them some interesting work being done by Jose Baselga's group in Spain(poster at ASCO) on how giving herceptin and tykerb "turbs" up the ADCC immune reaction against her2 and am aware that Mark Slikowski at Genentech has been supplying the samples to the Baselga group for their studies and is cooperating with them.

I also attended THE annual AACR meeting and heard Axel Ullrich, whom they
lauded as the true "inventor" of herceptin and provided with a "lifetime achievement award" explaining that her3 will be the key to curing her2 breast cancer.

I have heard Max Wicha at both AACR and ASCO describe how her 2 regulates the percentage of and invasiveness of cancer stem cells in breast tumors and, in general, asked lots of questions and alluded to the fact that
a repositiory of sample awaits interested researchers if the finances, legalities and logisitics could be worked out.

Max Wicha is starting a multicenter trial with a gamma secretase inhibitor (already FDA approved for Alzheimers I believe) trying to eliminate the cancer stem cells and thus the reucrrences of breast cancer.

I posted earlier an article which unfortunately should some increased cardiotoxicity adding pertuzumab (not FDA approved) to herceptin--I am sure Genentech, which has been on a roll with its products, is hesitant to begin a trial with the indication that there may be increased cardiotoxicity of the combination.

Another problem is that Iressa is approved but only for a VERY narrow indication and it is made by a different drug company than the other two drugs (which are made by Genentech). Genentech also makes an oral EGFR inhibiting TKI, Tarceva. It is very diffcult to get different drug companies to cooperate in a clinical trial.

The best hope would be Genentech--but they are about to be bought out by their majority stockholder, Roche --a much less innovative compnay who spend much less of their income on basic research and have a very different corporate "behavior" it would seem.

I don't know what her2 support as a group can do other than write letters to Roche, should they get their way, urging them not to change the governance or modus operandi of Genentech (but money talks, not letters!)

After attending 7 maor meetings in the last 12 months, I may only attend one more before San Antonio. I will continue to try to find out what is
holding up this trial and get back to your on what might be done to speed it up.

[eric]

Lani - I'm very thankful for the time you invest with us. The following is an article discussing the company purchase...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/118446.php

Roche said that if it acquired Genentech, it would allow Genentech to maintain its creative independence and that patients would benefit from the acquisition. Barbara Brenner, executive director of Breast Cancer Action, said, "Genentech has actually gone out of its way to engage conversations with the activist community." Brenner added, "We rarely agree, but at least we can talk to them. I have trouble imagining that will continue if Roche owns the company" (Chase, Wall Street Journal, 8/14)