Results of Chat on Nutrition and Supplements

[R.B.]

White buttom mushrooms an aromatase inhibitor.

Something else to add a little of to the diet?

RB

http://www.cbcrp.org/research/PageGr...?grant_id=3801

ABSTRACT

.........White button mushrooms are found to suppress breast cancer cell growth by preventing the synthesis of estrogen, the female hormone.........

[kat in the delta]

Maryanne and all,
I just listened to a doctor from MSK cancer center and she said all we need is a multivitamin and Calcium with D. If you have a ? about herbs, supplements etc,,,The doctor said to go to the only official website: www.MSKCC.org or small case letters:www.mskcc.org. kat in the delta

[kat in the delta]

That DR. Barrie ______said that if you got anything from a health food store, get a filtered fish oil or/and a medicinal mushroom extract. with a label.....She mentioned massages and accupuncture for pain as well as yoga, meditation,... and for preventing lymphdem., she said to use light weights.... and that women who exercised by even walking briskly had a 50% advantage of the cancer NOT coming back over those who did nothing..............for what its worth to any of you. Anyone else listen to that teleconference this past week???? kat in the delta

[RhondaH]

Would anyone like to ADD to this? Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[lu ann]

Hi Rhonda,

I'm just curious. Are you currently NED or are you still in some kind of treatment? It seems with your discipline that you are healthy.

My husband and I used to belong to an Organic Farm Co-Op and learned about eating foods that were locally in season. We also canned tomatoes, beets, and applesauce last year. This year we added canned strawberry jam. Were saving it for a cold winter day to eat on toast. Yummy!

I very seldom if ever eat fresh strawberries and tomatoes out of season. They are picked either white or green and gassed before they arrive to ripen. Yuck! I guess I'm just too spoiled from the wonderfull flavour local fruits and vegetables provide during our growing season.

Where are you moving to? Good Luck.

Blessings from Lu Ann

[RhondaH]

Lu Ann,

I was fortunate to have only been Stage 1 at dx, BUT I also don't feel that there is ANY magic bullet, so I put EVERYTHING in my arsenal to prevent further recurrence. I STRONGLY feel that POOR diet (I used to BINGE eat candy bars, junk food, processed food...if I got 1 or 2 fruit and veg...FRESH, per day in, I was lucky), NO exercise and I think what cinced it for me was my dad becoming terminally ill and my having to take care of him from 100 miles away as well as being the single mother of a 3 yo son and full time employee to an insurance company (thank GOODNESS they have been so good to me). I'm a FIRM believer that EXTREME stress changes DNA (I've read studies that there is a "healthy" amount of everyday stress that a person can take, but I was having panic attacks of what was happening to him as I was his sole caregiver and didn't know what was going on with him at times and the day I was to see a counselor, my dad went in the hospital for the last time and I had to go out of town) so, yes, I AM NED and finished my last year of Herceptin 8/10/06. I wanted to join a CSA this year, but they ran out of spots, but they DO sell their extra at the farmers market and OH is it beautiful not to mention reasonable. I also, shop locally as much as I can and cook in season and have SO much fun trying new recipes (found some DELICIOUS sounding butternut squash recipes, I can't wait to try). I was able to freeze asparagus, rhubarb, blueberries, strawberries, raspberries (40 lbs ea of the last 3 as I put them in my smoothie every day AND buying organic, locally AND in bulk was MUCH cheaper than in the store, prepackaged, non organic). I must admit, beets are something I've NEVER been able to acquire a taste for (I'll eat ANYTHING else), but it is SO bad that my mother LITERALLY used to put me in the bathtub to feed me on "beet" day as I would spit it out and I have pix to prove it...now I'm sorry, but I'm not going to go to THAT extreme to get my child to eat something. My weakness is pumpkin butter (mom and I are looking for a recipe for it) and I go to the local farm to buy it. I actually already moved on 5/1/06 and only about a mile from where I was (in Grand Rapids, Michigan) to a WONDERFUL tree lined street with...hold onto your hats 40 kids on the street over a dozen of which are boys Tony's age (he's hosting his first sleepover tonight and 3 of them are coming over...he wanted more, but my basement is not unpacked yet and he needs practice first) so I had better get busy. Take care and God bless.

[sarah]

might be good to mention whether you're ER+ or ER-
Beside Herceptin every 3 weeks, Femara daily, and a prescription pill for strengthening the bones
I'm ER+ a triple positive so I gather many supplements are not good for us ER+ people such as flax oil, primrose, milk thistle (silybinin)

multi
co enzyme Q10
omega 3
magnesium B6
Calcium D3
folic acid
curcumin

what are white button mushrooms? regular white cap one or what do they look like?

[Bev]

Hi. Sarah I had not heard primrose was bad For ER+. I'm triple pos and do primrose, fish oil, CoQ10 and calcium. Haven't replaced zinc since running out. Do let us know for sure.

Ginger, for the record I have low bad cholesterol and high good cholesterol. I do eat red meat and butter and olive oil often, but most meals are home made. BB

[sarah]

I read something about prirose on this website but sorry I don't remember where since it was a while ago. Hopefully someone who's more knowledgeable will answer. I'd also like to know what supplements should be avoided for us triples and which might be more helpful.
sarah

[Cathya]

Sarah;

I would be curious to know what's good for the triple positives as well. I didn't know milk thistle wasn't good for us and don't know why?

Cathy

[sarah]

Cathya,
I am now conflictewd about Milk thistle - check under search for other opinions but this was posted uneder a Milk Thistle discussion by Heblaj01:

Potential undesirable side effects of Silybin In previous posts in this thread Tom & myself highlighted the lab experiments which showed beneficial activity of Silybin (an extract of Silymarin, the main ingredient in Milk Thistle) against various cancer cell lines (primary lung, liver,brain).
In follow up search for more info on the subject I discovered a few disquieting bits of data regarding two negative aspects of Silybin (& its related parent compounds).
None of the info I read is definitive since no human study has been done to confirm the lab findings & my limited understanding of the data may be flawed, but caution is of the order.

The first bit is the inhibition of P450 3A4 (ref 1 below) which is necessary for the proper metabolism of some chemo drugs such as Vinorelbine(Navelbine).
However since inhibition of P450 3A4 is in some cases limited to the guts (& does not always extend to the liver) Silybin & the chemo drug would have to be both taken by mouth. So in the case of Vinorelbine which taken by I.V. the risk of interaction is perhaps nil. (There is a pill version of Vinorelbine which would appear to be more problematic if taken with Silybin).
In addition Silybin inhibits UGT1A1 which has been associated with protection against some cancers (Ref.2) & is necessary for the metabolism of the drug Irinotecan(would increase its toxicity by lengthening its stay in the body).

The second bit of negative info is related to the potential effect on ER+ cancer cells. In all of the papers I have read so far about the beneficial activity of Silybin no estrogen positive cells were tested. The beneficial effects were demonstrated on primary cancer cells in lung, liver etc...not on metastatic cells from breast in these organs.
I found two papers demonstrating adverse effects of Silymarin on the proliferation of ER+ cells (Ref.3 & 4).
Since experiments showing anticancer activity used pure Silybin while those showing adverse effects were using the parent Silymarin there was still the possibility that adverse effects were caused by chemicals in Silymarin other than Silybin. Trying to find an answer to that question on internet proved fruitless & I had to querry by E-mail one of the researchers involved in the Silybin studies. His reply was that he knew of no study on this matter but that he assumed that the negative effects on ER+ cells caused by Silymarin would be the same for pure Silybin (& consequently for milk thistle as well).

If all of these findings & speculations are applicable to women with ER+ or at risk of ER+ cancer then taking Milk Thistle or Silymarin or Silybin is potentially increasing the risk of proliferation.

It is quite disappointing that these supplements may be double edge swords perhaps helpfull against some cancers & appearing adverse for others.


Ref.1
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/32/6/587
SILYBIN INACTIVATES CYTOCHROMES P450 3A4 AND 2C9 AND INHIBITS MAJOR HEPATIC GLUCURONOSYLTRANSFERASES
Ref.2
http://breast-cancer-research.com/content/7/6/r909
Genetic polymorphisms in human SULT1A1 and UGT1A1 genes associate with breast tumor characteristics: a case-series study.
Ref.3
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=14568570&query_hl=23&itool=pubmed_docs um
Silymarin is a selective estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) agonist and has estrogenic effects in the metaphysis of the femur but no or antiestrogenic effects in the uterus of ovariectomized (ovx) rats.
Ref.4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=16597642&query_hl=26&itool=pubmed_docs um
Enhancement of mammary carcinogenesis in two rodent models by silymarin dietary supplements.