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Old 06-12-2009, 06:39 PM   #1
Kim in DC
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Marie,
Please know that I am praying for you both.
Keep believing in Ed's miracle. Begin to thank God already for delivering him.

Kim
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8/98 dx right breast
5/2003 tram flap right breast
8/2004 dx new primary left breast with inflammatory bc
er/pr-, her2neu+++
8/19 taxotere and herceptin
1/15/2005 Navelbine/Herceptin
4/2005 radiation and Herceptin
5/15/2005 Herceptin alone
2/12/2008 skin biopsy positive
2/14/2008 met to sternum, possibly right breast
2/27/08 Start omitarg, herceptin, taxotere trial
3/17/08 Kicked off trial because I started too close to my last herceptin
3/19 start tykerb xeloda
Right breast confirmed met
5/15/08 skin mets gone, no hypermetabolic activity in breast, sternum healing
8/24/08 scans still look good. sternum still active with scarring. No evidence of progression
10/08 Progression in sternum
12/08 Start TDM1 trial
1/09 Scans show stable
12/09 1 year on TDM1 still stable
10/10 progression in chest and liver
11/10 false positive of liver mets; tykerb and herceptin
4/11 Tykerb/Herceptin/Xgeva
4/11 Rads to Sternum
5/12/12 NED Herceptin/Zometa
3/16/19 still NED Herceptin/Zometa very 6months
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:50 PM   #2
StephN
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Angry

Dear Marie - My body thinks I should be asleep now (9 time zones a lot to adjust in 2 days!), but I just had to check in. Your news jerked me right awake!

I am too dazed now to have any more ideas than Lani has put forward. The Boswellia was coming to mind as I read the start of this thread, but some of the other ideas may have an even better chance.

Pattyz as usual has come through with her latest research. You have so much to come to grips with right now, so keep remembering we are sending you all the love and energy we can.

We will all keep "watering" the Mighty Oak tree and try to see you both through this rough patch. Lots of love to you both.
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"When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest." H.D. Thoreau
Live in the moment.

MY STORY SO FAR ~~~~
Found suspicious lump 9/2000
Lumpectomy, then node dissection and port placement
Stage IIB, 8 pos nodes of 18, Grade 3, ER & PR -
Adriamycin 12 weekly, taxotere 4 rounds
36 rads - very little burning
3 mos after rads liver full of tumors, Stage IV Jan 2002, one spot on sternum
Weekly Taxol, Navelbine, Herceptin for 27 rounds to NED!
2003 & 2004 no active disease - 3 weekly Herceptin + Zometa
Jan 2005 two mets to brain - Gamma Knife on Jan 18
All clear until treated cerebellum spot showing activity on Jan 2006 brain MRI & brain PET
Brain surgery on Feb 9, 2006 - no cancer, 100% radiation necrosis - tumor was still dying
Continue as NED while on Herceptin & quarterly Zometa
Fall-2006 - off Zometa - watching one small brain spot (scar?)
2007 - spot/scar in brain stable - finished anticoagulation therapy for clot along my port-a-catheter - 3 angioplasties to unblock vena cava
2008 - Brain and body still NED! Port removed and scans in Dec.
Dec 2008 - stop Herceptin - Vaccine Trial at U of W begun in Oct. of 2011
STILL NED everywhere in Feb 2014 - on wing & prayer
7/14 - Started twice yearly Zometa for my bones
Jan. 2015 checkup still shows NED
2015 Neuropathy in feet - otherwise all OK - still NED.
Same news for 2016 and all of 2017.
Nov of 2017 - had small skin cancer removed from my face. Will have Zometa end of Jan. 2018.

Last edited by StephN; 06-12-2009 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:59 PM   #3
Ruth
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Marie ~

I am so saddened to read this about Mighty Oak Ed...you both are in my thoughts and prayers. I wish I had some insight of what to do but just know how deeply you and Ed are loved.

Ruth
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[/SIGPIC]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Diagnosed 6/03 nursing daughter
Dose dense A/C 4x
Modified rad mast 8/03
IDC; 3 cm; 10+/16 nodes; ER/PR-; Her2+++
Weekly taxol w/Herceptin (off label) 12x's
40 weeks Herceptin
Radiation 33x
Reconstruction w/ implants 05 & 07
NED
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:55 PM   #4
eric
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Marie,
My heart is breaking for you and Ed. Know that PRAYERS ARE COMING YOU'RE WAY.
Eric
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:08 PM   #5
nitewind
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Marie, it just sickened me to read your post. We have all come to love and care about you and Ed so much. You know that you have my prayers always. Don't lose hope and never stop believing.
love and hugs to you both
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Susan
Age: 61
dx: 5/25/06
2 cm/ 0 nodes
Lumpectomy rt breast on 7/26/06
ER/PR- / Her2+++
A/C x 4
finished taxotere 2/07
finished 33 rads
Herceptin finished 12/07/07 Yippee!
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:17 PM   #6
dchips1
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Intrathecal Herceptin

I have looked into this for myself if the brain mets continue. I had a port dye check and the Interventional Rad dr that did it reccommend someone in Oregon, he trained under him.
Neuwelt, Edward A.: Oregon Health & Science University - Portland, Oregon

http://www.ohsu.edu/health/meet-our-...r.cfm?id=11097

I have also checked into this through my Gamma/neurosurgeon at Barrows in PHX, AZ, he says it is plausible, they do it with injecting mannitol to open the blood brain barrier. I rescan in 1 week, at the last scan the 1 lesion that I have had gammed twice showed little change. And I as well have had WBR. already. So that is why I have looked into taking hercepitn in that way. Dr Barranco (Barrows) says that the risks are stroke, increased ICP pressure. Good Luck to you and I may not post often But I read and pray and cry with all of my Her2 members. Darita
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dx 1/06 IDC 2cm 38 at dx
2/06 L mast nodes 3/9+ SNB neg ER-/Pr - her2 + Stg 4 liver/pelvis
3/06-9/06Taxol/Carbo/zometa/Herceptin
3/07 6 brain mets WBR down to c-2
4/07 osteonecrosis jaw
1/08 mri new 9mm lesion right lower side
2/08 gamma knife 1 lesion 11/08 regamma
10/09 latent rad necrosis to brain met,
1/20/10 crani: lesion necrosis w active cells continue her add tykerb
1/11 NED just Ingrown toenail! YEAH GOD
8/11 Tykerb, herceptin weekly, elevated her2 levels, negative scans
oct -march 11 new neuro deficits lower legs
3/12 2 spinal metsTykerb, Herceptin
04/12 4050cGY rads T 2-4 & T7-9
5/12 Brain,cervical lumbar clear/thoracic slight decrease
10/12 t 2-4 shrunk t-9 grew start Xeloda, 02/13 stop xeloda,5/13 on metformin, decadron, Tykerb, iv and IT herceptin 5/30/13 total #11 #2 of 80mg dose weekly.
9/13 100mg of IT her, IV hern, 750 mg tykerb, 3mg dec.
last Mri T--3 SHRUNK t7-9 shrunk no edema. Left shift in CBC bone marrow BX negative.
10/13 Ct has shown Double left ureters with stones/cysts in them, after 3 births and lots and U/S iit takes cancer to figure out you have 2 smaller ureters going into 1 kidney!
12/13 Mri brain no new lesions, cervical and lumbar arthritis.
Tspine lesion at T3 stable, T 7-9 GROWTH lots of pain

1/29/14 HIHO HIHO its off to Neuro surgery I go





Life is Good when you wake up in the morning and take a breath and know that God has given me another day.


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Old 06-16-2009, 12:10 AM   #7
SoCalGal
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Marie and MO - sending fierce warrior woman prayers for peace, for miracles, for blessings and for courage and strength.

It's important to remember that while not everyone can be cured, we can all be healed. The love, friendship and support that surrounds us in life is a big part of that healing. Feeling whole, holy, loved. With love, Flori
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1996 cancer WTF?! 1.3 cm lumpectomy Er/Pr neg. Her2+ (20nodes NEGATIVE) did CMF + rads. NED.
2002 recurrence. Bilateral mastectomy w/TFL autologous recon. Then ACx2. Skin lymphatic rash. Taxotere w/Herceptin x4. Herceptin/Xeloda. Finally stops spreading.
2003 - Back to surgery, remove skin mets, and will have surgery one week later when pathology can confirm margins.
‘03 latisimus dorsi flap to remove skin mets. CLEAN MARGINS. Continue single agent Herceptin thru 4/04. NED.
‘04 '05 & 06 tiny recurrences - scar line. surgery to cut out. NED each time.
1/2006 Rads again, to scar line. NED.

3/07 Heartbreaking news - mets! lungs.sternum. Try Tykerb/Xeloda. Tykerb/Carbo/Gemzar. Switch Oncs.
12/07 Herceptin.Tykerb. Markers go stable.
2/8/08 gamma knife 13mm stupid brain met.
3/08 Herceptin/tykerb/avastin/zometa.
3/09 brain NED. Lungs STABLE.
4/09 attack sternum (10 daysPHOTONS.5 days ELECTRONS)
9/09 MARKERS normal!
3/10 PET/CT=manubrium intensely metabolically active but stable. NEDhead.
Wash out 5/10 for tdm1 but 6/10 CT STABLE, PET improving. Markers normal. Brain NED. Resume just Herceptin plus ZOMETA
Dec 2010 Brain NED, lungs/sternum stable. markers normal.
MAR 2011 stop Herceptin/allergy! Go back on Tykerb and switch to Xgeva.
May-Aug 2011 Tykerb Herceptin Xgeva.
Sept 2011 Tykerb, Herceptin, Zometa, Avastin.
April 2012 sketchy drug trial in NYC. 6 weeks later I’m NED!
OCT 2012 PET/CT shows a bunch of freakin’ progression. Back to LA and Herceptin.avastin.zometa.
12/20/12 add in PERJETA!
March 2013 – 5 YEARS POST continue HAPZ
APRIL 2013 - 6 yrs stage 4. "FAILED" PETscan on 4/2/13
May 2013: rePetted - improvement in lungs, left adrenal stable, right 6th rib inactive, (must be PERJETA avastin) sternum and L1 fruckin'worsen. Drop zometa. ADD Xgeva. Doc says get rads consultant for L1 and possible biopsy of L1. I say, no thanks, doc. Lets see what xgeva brings to the table first. It's summer.
June-August 2013HAPX Herceptin Avastin Perjeta xgeva.
Sept - now - on chemo hold for calming tummy we hope. Markers stable for 2 months.
Nov 2013 - Herceptin-Perjeta-Avastin-Xgeva (collageneous colitis, which explains tummy probs, added Entocort)
December '13 BRAIN MRI ned in da head.
Jan 2014: CONTINUING on HAPX…
FEB 2014 PetCT clinical “impression”: 1. newbie nodule - SUV 1.5 right apical nodule, mildly hypermetabolic “suggestive” of worsening neoplastic lesion. 2. moderate worsening of the sternum – SUV 5.6 from 3.8
3. increasing sclerosis & decreasing activity of L1 met “suggests” mild healing. (SUV 9.4 v 12.1 in May ‘13)
4. scattered lung nodules, up to 5mm in size = stable, no increased activity
5. other small scattered sclerotic lesions, one in right iliac and one in thoracic vertebral body similar in appearance to L1 without PET activity and not clearly pathologic
APRIL 2014 - 6 YRS POST GAMMA ZAP, 7 YRS MBC & 18 YEARS FROM ORIGINAL DX!
October 2014: hold avastin, continue HPX
Feb 2015 Cancer you lost. NEDHEAD 7 years post gamma zap miracle, 8 years ST4, +19 yrs original diagnosis.
Continue HPX. Adding back Avastin
Nov 2015 pet/ct is mixed result. L1 SUV is worse. Continue Herceptin/avastin/xgeva. Might revisit Perjeta for L1. Meantime going for rads consult for L1
December 2015 - brain stable. Continue Herceptin, Perjeta, Avastin and xgeva.
Jan 2016: 5 days, 20 grays, Rads to L1 and continue on HAPX. I’m trying to "save" TDM1 for next line. Hope the rads work to quiet L1. Sciatic pain extraordinaire :((
Markers drop post rads.
2/24/16 HAP plus X - markers are down
SCIATIC PAIN DEAL BREAKER.
3/23/16 Laminectomy w/coflex implant L4/5. NO MORE SCIATIC PAIN!!! Healing.
APRIL 2016 - 9 YRS MBC
July 2016 - continue HAP plus Xgeva.
DEC 2016 - PETCT: mets to sternum, lungs, L1 still about the same in size and PET activity. Markers not bad. Not making changes if I don't need to. Herceptin/Perjeta/Avastin/Xgeva
APRIL 2017 10 YEARS MBC
December 2017 - Progression - gonna switch it up
FEB 2018 - Kadcyla 3 cycles ---->progression :(
MAY30th - bronchoscopy, w/foundation1 - her2 enriched
Aug 27, 2018 - start clinical trial ZW25
JAN 2019 - ZW25 seems to be keeping me stable
APRIL 2019 - ONE DOZEN YEARS LIVING METASTATIC
MAY 2019 - progression back on herceptin add xeloda
JUNE 2019 - "6 mos average survival" LMD & CNS new single brain met - one zap during 5 days true beam SBRT to cord met
10/30/19 - stable brain and cord. progression lungs and bones. washing out. applying for ds8201a w nivolumab. hope they take me.
12/27/19 - begin ds8401a w nivolumab. after 2nd cycle nodes melt away. after 3rd cycle chest scan shows Improvement, brain MRI shows improvement, resolved areas & nothing new. switch to plain ENHERTU. after 4th cycle, PETscan shows mostly resolved or improved results. Markers near normal. I'm stunned but grateful.
10/26/20 - June 2021 Tucatinib/xeloda/herceptin - stable ish.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:42 PM   #8
Believe51
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Location: RHODE ISLAND (Ed getting me a latte on 2nd Cancerversary Cruise 2008) 'BELIEVE': To accept as true or real, To have faith in, To presume ALWAYS BELIEVE
Posts: 2,999
Unhappy

Darita, thinking about you today as I too explore brain options for Ed. Please keep me updated on your continued plan, I know you are about due for those scans.

I have been researching brain options for almost 2 years now. If there is anything I can help you with please let me know. The amounts of new treatment options and open clinical trial information I have makes me hopeful...

..that is until I read,

"Innumerable supratentorial and infratentorial brain metastases are seen. The largest measuring approximately 8mm, are in the middle frontal gyrus and in the left cerebellum. There is minimal edema associated with both. A small number of the metastatic foci demonstrate hemosiderin staining. Ventricles are unchanged in size."

"These is osseous metastatic disease in the left parietal calvarium and in the superior cervical spine-the odontoid marrow appears completely replaced by tumor."

Impression: "Interval progression of metastatic disease with innumerable new supratentorial and infratentorial brain metastases which are all subcentimeter in size. In addition, there is metastatic disease burden to the skull and visualized cervical spine."

This report has forced us to explore options that are not conventional. Here is to swimming against the waves. I am praying that we come home with more hope by being able to stay afloat. Wish us luck Sweetheart, we are going to break the rules.>>Believe51
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9/7/06Husband 50yrs=StageIV IBC/HER2+,BoneMets10/06TaxotereX10,'H'1X wk,Zometa,Tamoxifen4/12/07Last Tax5/18/07Pet=Rapid Cell Activity,No Organ Mets,Lytic Lesions,Degeneration,Some Bone Repair5/07ChemoFail6/01/07Pleural Thoracentisis=Effusions,NoMalignantCells6/19/07+7/2/07DFCI
6/25/07BrainMRI=BrainMets,Many<9mm7/10/07WBR/PelvisRad37.5Gx15&Nutritionist8/19/07T/X9/20/07BrainMRI=2<2mm10/6/07Pet=BoneProgression
10/24/07ChemoFail11/9/07A/Cx10,EndTam12/7/07Faslodex12/10/07Muga7512/13/07BlasticLesions1/7/08BrainMRI=Clear4/1/08Pet=BoneImprovement,
NoProgression,Stable4/7/08BrainPerfect5/16/08Last A/C8/26/08BrainMets=10(<9mm)9/10/08Gamma10/30/08Met=5mm12/19/08Gamma5mets5
12/22/08SpinalMets1/14/09SpinalRads2/17/09BrainMRI=NoNewMets4/20/09BoneScan5/14/09Ixempra6/1/09BrainMRI=NumerousMets6/24/09DFCIw/DrBurstein6/26/09Continue
Ixempra/Faslodex/Zometa~TM now lower7/17/09Stop Ixempra By Choice9/21/09HOSPICE10/16/09Earned His Deserved Wings And Halo=37 Month Fight w/Stage 4 IBC, Her2+++,My Hero!!
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:32 PM   #9
chrisy
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oh, sweet marie, I have no wordsI am surrendering you into God's loving hands and seeing you enfolded in His grace... and the doctors finding wisdom
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Chris in Scotts Valley
June 2002 extensive hi grade DCIS (pre-cancer-stage 0, clean sentinal node) Mastectomy/implant - no chemo, rads. "cured?"
9/2004 Diag: Stage IV extensive liver mets (!) ER/PR- Her2+++
10/04-3/05 Weekly Taxol/Carboplatin/Herceptin , complete response!
04/05 - 4/07 Herception every 3 wks, Continue NED
04/07 - recurrence to liver - 2 spots, starting tykerb/avastin trial
06/07 8/07 10/07 Scans show stable, continue on Tykerb/Avastin
01/08 Progression in liver
02/08 Begin (TDM1) trial
08/08 NED! It's Working! Continue on TDM1
02/09 Continue NED
02/10 Continue NED. 5/10 9/10 Scans NED 10/10 Scans NED
12/10 Scans not clear....4/11 Scans suggest progression 6/11 progression confirmed in liver
07/11 - 11/11 Herceptin/Xeloda -not working:(
12/11 Begin MM302 Phase I trial - bust:(
03/12 3rd times the charm? AKT trial

5/12 Scan shows reduction! 7/12 More reduction!!!!
8/12 Whoops...progression...trying for Perjeta/Herceptin (plus some more nasty chemo!)
9/12 Start Perjeta/Herceptin, chemo on hold due to infection/wound in leg, added on cycle 2 &3
11/12 Poops! progression in liver, Stop Perjeta/Taxo/Herc
11/12 Navelbine/Herce[ptin - try for a 3 cycles, no go.
2/13 Gemzar/Carbo/Herceptin - no go.
3/13 TACE procedure
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:42 PM   #10
Lani
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Fulvestrant AKA ICI 182,780 best given monthly as double dose in buttocks crosses BBB

ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology

Articles by Alfinito, P. D.
Articles by Deecher, D. C.


Endocrinology, doi:10.1210/en.2008-0532
Endocrinology Vol. 149, No. 10 5219-5226

ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and
Hypothalamic Tissue and Has
Functional Effects in the Brain
after Systemic Dosing
Peter D. Alfinito, Xiaohong Chen, James Atherton,
Scott Cosmi and Darlene C. Deecher
Women’s Health and Musculoskeletal Biology (P.D.A., X.C., S.C.,
D.C.D.), Drug Safety and Metabolism (J.A.), Wyeth Research,
Collegeville, Pennsylvania 19426
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Darlene C.
Deecher, Ph.D., Wyeth Research, RN 3164, 500 Arcola Road,
Collegeville, Pennsylvania 19426. E-mail: deeched@wyeth.com.

Previous reports suggest the antiestrogen ICI 182,780 (ICI) does not
cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB). However, this hypothesis has
never been directly tested. In the present study, we tested whether
ICI crosses the BBB, penetrates into brain and hypothalamic tissues,
and affects known neuroendocrine functions in ovariectomized rats.

ICI crosses the BBB and penetrates into brain and hypothalamic
tissues
An earlier report suggested that ICI did not cross the BBB of OVX
rats because it failed to block nuclear uptake of [3H]estradiol in
hypothalamic tissue after once daily dosing at 1.0 mg/kg sc for 3 d
(2). However, the ability of ICI to cross the BBB and penetrate brain
tissues was not directly tested in these experiments. In the present study, the same dosing
paradigm was followed as reported by Wade et al. (2) (Fig. 1A), and ICI levels were
measured in plasma and brain (total brain minus hypothalamus and pituitary) and hypothalamic
tissues over time. The ICI compound was detected in all samples and at all time points tested
(Fig. 1B). The concentrations and pharmacokinetic profiles of ICI in plasma, brain, and
hypothalamus were found to be similar (Fig. 1B and Table 1 ). ICI levels were stable in
plasma and brain and hypothalamic tissues over the entire 24-h testing period, and the
concentrations of ICI in plasma and hypothalamic tissue were similar at the 24-h time point.

TABLE 1. Pharmacokinetic profile of ICI (1.0 mg/kg, sc, 3 d) in
plasma and brain and hypothalamic tissues of OVX Sprague Dawley
rats over time

The ratio of brain to plasma exposure is an indication of a compound’s ability to cross the
BBB. Based on 24-h exposure values, brain and hypothalamus to plasma ratios for ICI were
0.33 and 0.66, respectively (Table 1 ). These results demonstrate that ICI crosses the BBB, is
present in brain and hypothalamic tissues, and persists at a constant level in plasma and brain
and hypothalamic tissues for up to 24 h after systemic dosing.
ICI blocks estrogenic actions in the MD model of hot flush but showed estrogenic-like
effects when administered alone
The MD model of hot flush is based on measuring naloxone-induced increases in TST in MD
OVX rats (17, 23). Previous work indicates that estrogen’s ability to abate TST elevations in
the MD model of hot flush occurs through its actions in the brain (18). To determine whether
11/6/08 8:20 AM
ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology
P
3), these results demonstrate that ICI rapidly crosses the BBB and persists for an extended
period of time in plasma and brain and hypothalamic tissues. Consistent with its ability to
penetrate brain tissues, repeated systemic administration of ICI blocked the effects of EE on
naloxone-induced TST elevations in the MD model of hot flush and on body weight change.
Interestingly, ICI administration alone (1.0 or 3.0 mg/kg·d) demonstrated weak estrogenic-like
activity in these models. We conclude that ICI is a brain-penetrable compound that can exert
functional (antiestrogenic and estrogenic) effects in the CNS, and specifically the
hypothalamus, after systemic dosing.
Previous studies have concluded that ICI does not cross the BBB because at up to 1.0 mg/kg·d,
it failed to block uptake of [3H]estradiol into nuclei of hypothalamic cells in OVX rats (2) and
failed to mimic the effects of OVX on body weight gain and plasma gonadotropin levels in
intact female rats (1). However, it is possible that these previous studies did not use a high
enough dose to observe inhibitory effects on these endpoints. For example, despite the presence
of ICI in brain and hypothalamic tissue after systemic administration of 1.0 mg/kg·d, we found
that this dose of ICI did not inhibit the effect of EE on all functional endpoints. The 1.0
mg/kg·d dose of ICI did partially inhibit the effect of EE on TST increases in the MD model
but did not block EE’s effect on body weight change. This functional selectivity may be
explained by the fact that ICI’s inhibitory effect on different estrogen-mediated brain functions
can vary depending on the endpoint being studied. For example, Steyn et al. (28) have shown
that intracerebroventricular administration of ICI inhibited estrogen-induced GnRH pulse
frequency but did not block estrogenic effects on progesterone receptor expression in the
hypothalamus or on antepartum prolactin surges. The authors concluded that there might be a
wide range of sensitivities to ICI in the brain that could cause variable results across different
functional endpoints. Thus, it is possible that inhibition of [3H]estradiol uptake into nuclei of
hypothalamic cells or blockade of estrogen’s effect on body weight change may require higher
levels of ICI than other functional endpoints. This idea is supported by our results showing that
ICI treatment at 3.0 mg/kg·d for 8 d did partially block the effect of EE on body weight change.
Because some previous studies (1, 2) only tested ICI at up to 1.0 mg/kg·d, it is unknown if
higher doses would have inhibited [3H]estradiol uptake into nuclei of hypothalamic cells in
OVX rats, or induced body weight gain or increased plasma gonadotropin levels in intact
female rats.
Several lines of evidence suggest that estrogens regulate body weight primarily through central
mechanisms that reduce meal size (15, 16, 29, 30, 31, 32). Lesions of the ventromedial nucleus
of the hypothalamus blocked the effect of systemically administered EB on body weight change
and food intake in OVX rats (29), infusion of estradiol directly into the paraventricular nucleus
or medial preoptic nucleus of the hypothalamus reduced body weight and/or food intake in
OVX rats (30, 31), and direct administration of EB to the hindbrain just above the nucleus
11/6/08 8:20 AM
ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology

tractus solitarius reduced food intake in OVX rats (32). However, these results have not been
reproduced in all laboratories (33), and several peripheral feedback mechanisms have been
hypothesized. Therefore, it remains possible that the ability of ICI to block the effect of EE on
body weight change in the present study could occur through peripheral not central
mechanisms. However, direct involvement of peripheral mechanisms in mediating estrogens
effect on body weight is lacking. It has been shown previously that estradiol treatment does not
inhibit feeding by modulating orosensory stimuli (15, 16). Estradiol treatment can inhibit
ghrelin-induced feeding, but this effect does not occur through reduction in meal size as is well
established for estrogens (15). Estradiol does increase the satiating potency of cholecystokinin,
but this effect likely occurs through an estradiol-induced increase in neuronal activity within
the brainstem, not through regulation of signaling in the periphery (15, 16). Finally, leptin
signaling does not appear to directly mediate estrogen’s effect on body weight because estradiol
has reduced body weight and food intake in both leptin-deficient and leptin receptor-deficient
mice (34). Thus, based on current evidence, estrogenic regulation of body weight appears to be
mediated through central mechanisms, and is an appropriate endpoint for predicting whether
ICI crosses the BBB and exerts functional effects in the CNS.
The effect of ICI on body weight has been reported previously in intact cycling female rats and
OVX estrogen-treated rats (2, 24). In these studies body weight changes were unaffected by
daily ICI treatment at either 1 or 1.5 mg/kg·d (higher doses were not tested), and it was
concluded that ICI did not cross the BBB. Our results are consistent with these studies because
the ability of ICI to block EE’s effect on body weight change was not observed at the 1.0
mg/kg·d dose. However, at the higher dose (3.0 mg/kg·d), ICI treatment did block the effect of
EE on body weight change. These data suggest that in previous studies in OVX rats, ICI may
not have been administered at a high enough dose to block estrogenic effects on body weight
regulation.
The effect of ICI alone on body weight change in OVX rats has also been tested previously (2,
24). Results from these studies also suggest that body weight change is unaffected by ICI
treatment at 1.0 or 1.5 mg/kg·d. These data are in contrast to our finding that ICI had weak
estrogenic-like actions on body weight change at both 1.0 and 3.0 mg/kg·d. The discrepancy
between the current work and previous studies is difficult to reconcile. There are several
technical differences such as rat strain and vendor and total treatment length that might account
for the discrepancy. One additional possibility is that the effect of ICI on body weight may vary
depending on initial body weights. In the present work, initial body weights averaged 215 g,
whereas in both other studies, initial body weights were approximately 270–276 g. It is possible
that in heavier rats, ICI may have a greater volume of distribution, increased sequestration into
adipose tissue, and/or increased plasma clearance. These possibilities are supported by studies
showing that increased body mass can alter the pharmacokinetic properties of some drugs (35).
11/6/08 8:20 AM
ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology

Therefore, the net result of these effects could be to reduce ICI exposure in brain tissue and
limit its ability to stimulate ER signaling. Importantly, it is unlikely that rats in our study
inadvertently received EE administration because uterine weights were similar to those from
vehicle-treated rats (Fig. 4 ).
Our results suggest that ICI has relatively low clearance in plasma and brain and hypothalamic
tissues of OVX rats when administered at 1 mg/kg·d for 3 d, and can persist in all three
compartments for at least 24 h after the last dose. In fact, the concentrations of ICI for each
tissue were found to be similar at the 0.5 and 24-h time points (Fig. 1B). This relatively low
clearance suggests that ICI could accumulate, particularly in lipid compartments such as brain
and adipose tissues, after daily systemic administration. Although somewhat speculative, this
type of accumulation could alter the pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic properties of ICI
over time. Consistent with this idea, ICI treatment at 1 mg/kg·d for 2 d did not block the effect
of EB on lordosis, ear wiggling, or hops and darts but reduced the effect of EB on all three
parameters when administered at 1 mg/kg·d for 24 d (2). Thus, the potential functional effects
of ICI on CNS-mediated endpoints may depend on both the doses tested and the time period
over which dosing is conducted.
A question that occurs is what are the relative roles of ER and β in mediating the effects of
ICI on the endpoints measured in the current study (i.e. TST regulation in the MD model and
body weight change). Because ICI binds to both receptors with similar affinities (36) and both
receptors appear to have broad distribution in the brain, including the hypothalamus (37), the
relative roles of the and β-subtypes are not easily discerned. Regarding body weight, several
studies suggest that estrogen’s effect is ER mediated. In support of this idea, in two separate
studies, the ER agonist 4,4',4''-(4-propyl-[1H]-pyrazole-1,3,5-triyl)trisphenol decreased food
intake and body weight in OVX rats, whereas the ERβ agonist 2,3-bis(4-hyroxyphenyl)-
propionitrile had no effect (38, 39). In addition, EB had no effect on body weight and food
intake in OVX ER knockout mice, suggesting that the β-subtype is insufficient to mediate the
effect of estrogen on these endpoints (40). Finally, other studies have shown that estrogenic
inhibition of feeding occurs through ER-expressing neurons located in the nucleus tractus
solitarius (32). In contrast to these results, in a single study using oligonucleotide knockdown
of ERs in the brain, only ERβ antisense probes blocked the effect of estradiol on body weight
and food intake (41). However, the ability of their probes to reduce ER expression in the brain
was not reported. Thus, based on current data, it appears that the effect of ICI on body weight
change observed in the current study is mediated through the ER receptor subtype. However,
this hypothesis will need to be confirmed in future studies.
Less is known about the respective roles of the ER and β-receptor subtypes in temperature
regulation. Both receptors have been implicated in the regulation of TST elevations in mice

ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology

regulation.
The antiestrogenic properties of ICI in the brain as well as uterine tissues have been well
established (1, 28, 43, 44). However, results from our work and others suggest that ICI may not
be a pure antiestrogen. Intrahippocampal infusion of ICI has mimicked the effect of EB on
place learning in OVX rats (43). In addition, Sibonga et al. (24) have shown that, like 17 β-
estradiol (45), ICI treatment (1.5 mg/kg·d) decreases the cancellous bone formation rate in
OVX rats. Finally, in primary hippocampal neurons, both ICI and 17 β-estradiol promoted
neuronal survival against excitotoxic- and β amyloid-induced cell death, induced rapid calcium
influxes, increased spinophilin and Bcl-2 expression, and increased phosphorylation of ERK2
and Akt (25). Thus, ICI appears to have mixed antagonist and agonist properties, and its
pharmacology now seems to be more similar to other selective ER modulators (SERMs), such
as raloxifene and tamoxifen, then initially reported. The precise mechanisms supporting the
mixed pharmacology of ICI are unknown, however, it may be related to the differential
regulation of ER dimers in the absence or presence of an estrogen. It is well known that ER
dimerization is a key step in the activation of estrogen signaling pathways. Using a yeast two-
hybrid system, Wang et al. (46) found that ICI induced ER dimerization when given alone but
destabilized ER dimers in the presence of an estrogen. Therefore, it is possible that ICI-induced
receptor dimerization could lead to activation of estrogen responsive pathways, whereas
destabilization of ER dimers in the presence of an estrogen would block signaling. In support
of this idea, ICI was found to activate a subset of estrogen-responsive genes in MCF-7 cells, a
breast cancer cell line, grown in hormone-depleted medium (47). Although this explanation
might account for the antagonist and agonist-like effects of ICI observed in the MD model and
on body weight change in the current study, it cannot be broadly applicable to all endpoints
because ICI had no detectable estrogenic-like effect on uterine tissue. Currently, it is not well
understood how the tissue-selective agonist/antagonist properties of SERMs, like ICI,
tamoxifen, and raloxifene, manifest. It has been hypothesized that agonist/antagonist activities
of SERMs result from specific ligand-induced conformational changes in ERs that alter
coactivator/corepressor protein binding, and selectively influence different genomic and/or
nongenomic signaling pathways (48). In addition, cell-specific promoter context could play a
role in determining whether a SERM will elicit estrogenic or antiestrogenic actions.
The clinical use of ICI is not likely to be altered significantly by the results from the present
work. However, our results do offer a mechanistic explanation for the occurrence of hot flushes
in premenopausal women treated with fulvestrant (8). In addition, the use of fulvestrant in
premenopausal women would be expected to induce other CNS-related menopause-like
11/6/08 8:20 AM
ICI 182,780 Penetrates Brain and Hypothalamic Tissue and Has Functiona…ter Systemic Dosing -- Alfinito et al. 149 (10): 5219 -- Endocrinology
Psymptoms such as sleep disturbances, mood changes, loss of energy, weight gain, and
decreased libido (49). Because most of these symptoms are not life threatening, it is unlikely
that they would limit the use of fulvestrant for treating advanced breast cancer patients.
Although we found that ICI has weak estrogenic-like activity on certain CNS-mediated
functions, it is also unlikely that these results will affect the use of fulvestrant for treating breast
cancer patients. Previous work has shown that ICI inhibits human breast cancer cell
proliferation (1), and agonist-like activity would be inconsistent with the studies showing the
utility of fulvestrant in treating ER-positive breast cancer (6, 7).
In summary, we have shown that, in contrast to previous conclusions, ICI is capable of crossing
the BBB, penetrating brain and hypothalamic tissues, and exerting functional effects on
neuroendocrine endpoints after systemic administration. We have also found that ICI is not a
pure antiestrogen, and may have a mix of both agonist and antagonist activities on certain
CNS-mediated functions. Therefore, future studies should consider the potential for ICI to
influence estrogen-related functions in the CNS after systemic dosing.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:52 PM   #11
Lani
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this was the reference I was looking for

At the conference, Dr. Slamon said this man's results were the most amazing he had ever seen.

the most remarkable lecture I have heard in the last 5 years
was the following

Adoptive T-Cell Transfer for Metastatic Melanoma
James Yang, MD
National Institutes of Health

at a conference in October hosted by Dr. Slamon

He was, I believe, starting to try to do something simiilar with other cancers...or at least thinking of starting to as he stated he believed his method would be applicable to many other sorts of cancer.

He only treats patients at the NIH and the patient's whose scans he showed and whose stories he told were widely metastatic.

Perhaps trying to contact his office at the NIH???
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:12 AM   #12
Jean
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Strong prayers are being said.

hugs,
jean
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Stage 1, Grade 1, 3/30/05
Lumpectomy 4/15/05 - 6MM IDC
Node Neg. (Sentinel node)
ER+ 90% / PR-, Her2+++ by FISH
Ki-67 40%
Arimidex 5/05
Radiation 32 trt, 5/30/05
Oncotype DX test 4/17/06, 31% high risk
TOPO 11 neg. 4/06
Stopped Arimidex 5/06
TCH 5/06, 6 treatments
Herceptin 5/06 - for 1 yr.
9/06 Completed chemo
Started Femara Sept. 2006
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:54 PM   #13
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Dear Marie,

I cannot stop my tears reading your post. I am praying for you and Mighty Oak. God has to guide you to the right doctors and give you both the strength to deal with this news and stay positive.

Lots of love and peace,
shobha
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DX: 06-30-2007 - left breast -stage IIIB, Her2/Neu 3+++, ER weakly positive, PR-
Taxol+herceptin weekly for 3 months
FEC+herceptin every 3 weeks for 3 months
BRCA 1 and 2 - Negative
Jan 2008 - Bilateral mastectomy, prophylactic Rt. side.
Radiation for 5 weeks
Completed my yr of herceptin on 07-14-2008
Brain MRI - 3/2/09 Clean
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:56 PM   #14
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Marie,

I'm just heartbroken to hear the news for Ed. I don't have any medical suggestions but I will certainly keep you two in my prayers.
__________________
Diagnosed 2007
Stage IIb Invasive Ductal Carcinoma, Pagets, 3 of 15 positive nodes

Traditional Treatment: Mastectomy and Axillary Node Dissection followed by Taxotere, 6 treatments and 1 year of Herceptin, no radiation
Former Chemo Ninja "Takizi Zukuchiri"

Additional treatments:
GP2 vaccine, San Antonio Med Ctr
Prescriptive Exercise for Cancer Patients
ENERGY Study, UCSD La Jolla

Reconstruction: TRAM flap, partial loss, Revision

The content of my posts are meant for informational purposes only. The medical information is intended for general information only and should not be used in any way to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent disease
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:17 PM   #15
mmoons
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praying hard

Oh Marie, I have such a lump in my throat and an ache in my heart. You are the epitome of loving support and words will fall short of conveying my heartache at your saddness and today's new.

Sending you back all the loving support you have given out.....which is A LOT!!!

Holding you in prayer tonight and always,

Maureen

p.s. I am such a rookie so I hope this is not a stupid question, but what about Tykerb (crosses the blood brain barrier)...? Is that an option?
__________________
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My loves

IDC & DCIS, HER2+++ Diagnosis: October 1, 2008
  • Tumor: 6.8 centimeters, never showed on mammograms
  • ER-/PR-
  • November 2008: Sentinal Lymph node surgery. 6 out of 9 lymph nodes with cancer
  • Stage IIIc
  • Lapatinib Clinical Trial start: November, 2008
  • Surgery: May 5, 2009
  • Started Herceptin: May 19, 2009
  • Started Radiation (33 rounds): June 10, 2009
  • September 2009: Moved to Michigan to be closer to family
  • 12/09 - still on Herceptin until May 2010
  • August 2010: Port out, port out, port out port out port port port out port ooooout...da da da dant! (to the music of the Pink Panther)
Blog: http://moonsfamily.blogspot.com
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Old 06-12-2009, 06:37 PM   #16
Laurel
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Marie,

I know where you have been living....in hope. Stay there. Stay there.
__________________

Smile On!
Laurel


Dx'd w/multifocal DCIS/IDS 3/08
7mm invasive component
Partial mast. 5/08
Stage 1b, ER 80%, PR 90%, HER-2 6.9 on FISH
0/5 nodes
4 AC, 4 TH finished 9/08
Herceptin every 3 weeks. Finished 7/09
Tamoxifen 10/08. Switched to Femara 8/09
Bilat SPM w/reconstruction 10/08
Clinical Trial w/Clondronate 12/08
Stopped Clondronate--too hard on my gizzard!
Switched back to Tamoxifen due to tendon pain from Femara

15 Years NED
I think I just might hang around awhile....

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Old 06-12-2009, 07:25 PM   #17
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Marie, I so did not want to read this.

I am keeping you and Ed in my thoughts and prayers. I am praying for the doctors who will find the next right thing for Ed.
__________________
Rhonda (Sassy)
dx age 45
DX 2/15/05 Stage IIb (at surgery)restaged IIIa
Left mast .9cm tumor 5 of 14 nodes
Triple Positive
4 DD A/C
12 Taxol/Herceptin
33Rads
Strange infect mast site one year aft surg, hosp 1 wk
Herceptin for total of 18 months
Lupron Monthly 4 yrs
Neurontin for aches, pains and hot flashes(It works!)
Ovaries removed 11/09 stop Lupron and Neurontin
Arimidex 6 yrs (tried Femara, no SE improvement)
Tried Exemestane-hips got so bad could hardly walk
Back to Arimidex for year seven
Zometa 2X Annual for 7years, Lasix
Stop Arimidex 5/13
Stop Zometa 7/13-Bi-lateral Stress Fractures in Femurs from Zometa
5/14 Start Tamoxifen
3/15 Stem cell transplant to stimulate femur bone growth/healing
5/15 Complete fracture of right femur/Titanium rods both femurs
9/16 Start Evista stopTamoxifen
3/17 Stop Evista--unwelcome side effects!
NED and no meds.......
14YEARS NED!
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:34 PM   #18
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Marie,

This is one of those times when words are not enough. Please tell Ed that we are all pulling for him.

Stay strong.
__________________
Gerri
Dx: 11/23/05, Lumpectomy 12/12/05
Tumor 2.2 cm, Stage II, Grade 3, Sentinel Node biopsy negative
ER+ (30%) /PR+ (50%), HER2+++
AC X 4 dose dense, Taxol X 4 dose dense
Herceptin started with 2nd Taxol, given weekly until chemo done
then given every 3 weeks for one year ending on March 16, 2007
Radiation 30 treatments
Tamoxifen - 2 yrs (pre-menopausal)
May 2008 - Feb 2012 Femara
Aug 2008 - Feb 2012 Zometa every 6 months
March 2012 - Stop Femara, now Evista for bone strengthening
**********
Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look
back and realize they were the big things.
- Robert Brault
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:35 PM   #19
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To Marie and Ed,

You are an inspiration in how to live. Your love for each other, and the caring you share here and, I'm sure, in the rest of your lives is amazing. Please know that I am praying for the greatest good for you both.

Rebecca
__________________
Dx 8/06 Age 43 Stage IIIA multifocal throughout breast, largest tumor 5 cm, grade 3, comedo, ER+PR+HER+++
Neoadjuvant A/C 4X Dose Dense
11/06 Bilateral Mastectomy (no choice on the right, my choice on the left)
Taxol+Herceptin weekly x12, continuing with Herceptin, finished one year in 12/07
33 Rads
Femara for 5+ years, staying on (started with Arimidex, switched after about a month, much happier)
Abnormal brain MRI shows no cancer, but "extensive white matter diease" - unknown cause
BRCA negative - lots of cancer in my family
survivor of thyroid cancer
also have Crohn's disease
CT and bone scan say NED as of 5/13
dx with severe cardiomyopathy 5/12 (likely due to chemo and Herceptin), ejection fraction in low 20's, now up to 40, went to 50, latest read 12/13 is back down to 35
1/13 Acute pancreatitis - are you kidding me?
9/13 started Humira for Crohn's. starting to have some energy again
B12 and Vit D both needed supplementation
Cataracts in both eyes noted 6/12 - surgery in the next 2-4 years?
4/14 Kidney stones/blockage/infection - related to Crohn's Disease
5/14 My aunt passed away - she was diagnosed after I was with Stage I - not Her2+, then Stage 4 for about one year
6/14 Scans - still NED, thank God. However, broken rib (I didn't notice) lots of bone degeneration osteopenia/osteoporosis. I also still have cardiomyopathy secondary to chemo.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:09 PM   #20
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Marie
Holding you and Ed deep in my heart and in my prayers
Keep on Believing!
__________________
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet
is fighting some kind of battle."



Hugs & Blessings
Sheila
Diagnosed at age 49.99999 2/21/2002 via Mammography (Calcifications)
Core Biopsy 2/22/02
L. Mastectomy 2/25/2002
Stage 1, 0.7cm IDC, Node Neg from 19 nodes Her2+++ ER PR Neg
6/2003 Reconstruction W/ Tissue Expander, Silicone Implant
9/2003 Stage IV with Mets to Supraclavicular nodes
9/2003 Began Herceptin every 3 weeks
3/2006 Xeloda 2500mg/Herceptin for recurrence to neck nodes
3/2007 Added back the Xeloda with Herceptin for continued mets to nodes
5/2007 Taken Off Xeloda, no longer working
6/14/07 Taxol/Herceptin/Avastin
3/26 - 5/28/08 Taxol Holiday Whopeeeeeeeee
5/29 2008 Back on Taxol w Herceptin q 2 weeks
4/2009 Progression on Taxol & Paralyzed L Vocal Cord from Nodes Pressing on Nerve
5/2009 Begin Rx with Navelbine/Herceptin
11/09 Progression on Navelbine
Fought for and started Tykerb/Herceptin...nodes are melting!!!!!
2/2010 Back to Avastin/Herceptin
5/2010 Switched to Metronomic Chemo with Herceptin...Cytoxan and Methotrexate
Pericardial Window Surgery to Drain Pericardial Effusion
7/2010 Back to walking a mile a day...YEAH!!!!
9/2010 Nodes are back with a vengence in neck
Qualified for TDM-1 EAP
10/6/10 Begin my miracle drug, TDM-1
Mixed response, shrinking internal nodes, progression skin mets after 3 treatments
12/6/10 Started Halaven (Eribulen) /Herceptin excellent results in 2 treatments
2/2011 I CELEBRATE my 9 YEAR MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7/5/11 begin Gemzar /Herceptin for node progression
2/8/2012 Gemzar stopped, Continue Herceptin
2/20/2012 Begin Tomo Radiation to Neck Nodes
2/21/2012 I CELEBRATE 10 YEARS
5/12/2012 BeganTaxotere/ Herceptin is my next miracle for new node progression
6/28/12 Stopped Taxotere due to pregression, Started Perjeta/Herceptin
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