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Old 03-08-2008, 09:56 AM   #1
gdpawel
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I have no idea what sets hutchibk off. It was suggested that maybe it's being grounded in the minute, perhaps by necessity as she indicated. Sometimes it is difficult to express on public forums for fear of reprisals (one form or another). Perhaps some do not wish to fuel the arguments with hutchibk. Neither do I. But I will not be subjugated by manipulative indeuendos.

A good person told me that although this board is pretty much considered a board of adults (with a higher threshold than some other boards), there are some less mature people participating who seem determined to take on any discussion as a personal issue, and make it personal. I certainly don't know what the motivation for it is. But all I can say is "lighten up" hutchibk!
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:37 PM   #2
Jackie07
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Hi,

I am going to be off subject a little bit. Could you tell me how to post a long article? I did not see the 'copy' and 'paste' button. And every time I typed ove a page, I got kicked out of the site. Is it some setting on my computer that needs to be changed?

'Agenda' is a strong word. I feel like this is a wonderful site for all of us. Anytime anybody that is not interested in a message, he/she can just start another thread or check on another one.

I still think it is healthy and necessary for us to feel safe/free to express ourself here 'out in the open'.
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http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/doctors-letter-patient-newly-diagnosed-cancer.html
http://www.asco.org/ASCOv2/MultiMedi...=114&trackID=2

NICU 4.4 LB
Erythema Nodosum 85
Life-long Central Neurocytoma 4x5x6.5 cm 23 hrs 62090 semi-coma 10 d PT OT ST 30 d
3 Infertility tmts 99 > 3 u. fibroids > Pills
CN 3 GKRS 52301
IDC 1.2 cm Her2 +++ ER 5% R. Lmptmy SLNB+1 71703 6 FEC 33 R Tamoxifen
Recc IIB 2.5 cm Bi-L Mast 61407 2/9 nds PET
6 TCH Cellulitis - Lymphedema - compression sleeve & glove
H w x 4 MUGA 51 D, J 49 M
Diastasis recti
Tamoxifen B. scan
Irrtbl bowel 1'09
Colonoscopy 313
BRCA1 V1247I
hptc hemangioma
Vertigo
GI - > yogurt
hysterectomy/oophorectomy 011410
Exemestane 25 mg tab 102912 ~ 101016 stopped due to r. hip/l.thigh pain after long walk
DEXA 1/13
1-2016 lesions in liver largest 9mm & 1.3 cm onco. says not cancer.
3-11 Appendectomy - visually O.K., a lot of puss. Final path result - not cancer.
Start Vitamin D3 and Calcium supplement (600mg x2)
10-10 Stopped Exemestane due to r. hip/l.thigh pain OKed by Onco 11-08-2016
7-23-2018 9 mm groundglass nodule within the right lower lobe with indolent behavior. Due to possible adenocarcinoma, Recommend annual surveilence.
7-10-2019 CT to check lung nodule.
1-10-2020 8mm stable nodule on R Lung, two 6mm new ones on L Lung, a possible lymph node involvement in inter fissule.
"I WANT TO BE AN OUTRAGEOUS OLD WOMAN WHO NEVER GETS CALLED AN OLD LADY. I WANT TO GET SHARP EDGED & EARTH COLORED, TILL I FADE AWAY FROM PURE JOY." Irene from Tampa

Advocacy is a passion .. not a pastime - Joe
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Old 03-08-2008, 05:24 PM   #3
duga35
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That was a great post, Jackie

I wish we had a little clapping emoticon
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Diagnosis and Treatment: DX 12/07/07
Male Diagnosed with DCIS at age 39
Mastectomy on right breast
Tumor Stage pt1b NO MO
DCIS Tumor size 1.5 x 1.x .6cm
Infiltration tumor size .25X.17 cm
Bloom-Richardson Grade 3(score 8)
Nuclear Grade 3 with comedo necrosis
Estrogen+/Progestrone+/HER-2/Neu +++
FISH ratio 4.31
Lymph node removal scheduled 1/07/08
17 nodes tested and all negative 1/08/08
Started Tamoxifin 1/29/08
Oncotype DX score 52 (off the charts, according to my onc!!!)
Starting TCH 3/14/08
BRCA I Positive BRCA II Negative
Finished TC 6/27/08 continue Herceptin
8/1/08 Herceptin stopped due to low Muga score
Mastectomy on left breast 11/10/08
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:50 PM   #4
AlaskaAngel
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Civility, and Analysis of Information

Jackie, I'm told that somewhere recently in time, another "Angel" has posted, so unless I'm allowed to let that one take the "blame" we better keep the "Alaska" in the name for accuracy's sake. Anyway, I'm glad the tactic seems to have worked okay. Thanks for keeping discussion civil and bright.

It IS important to consider the source for information as one way to consider its value. One of the best aspects of the forums here is that information from a wide variety of sources is available for consideration. I can go through the list of sources mentioned, and then read Robert Bazell's "The Making of Herceptin" and understand that revolutonary concepts can still come very close to never being fully developed by "the system" of respectable sources. The source of information is only one factor of many to take into account in evaluating whether the information is meaningful, accurate, or useful.

Even questionable information is valuable simply because it often creates the opportunity for further discussion and development of sharper questions and clearer understanding.

I would recommend to you "The Truth About the Drug Companies", by Marcia Angell, M.D. as one resource that looks at the interrelationships between .com's, .edu's, and governmental agencies in the development of information.

What would be most conclusive in discussing anyone's contribution here would be intelligent analysis and discussion of the actual concepts provided. Other than the first few posts on this thread, I'm still looking for any information either supporting or refuting the actual concepts that were presented. I'm not ready to throw out the concepts based solely on sources, or on personalities.

Respectfully,

AlaskaAngel

Last edited by AlaskaAngel; 03-08-2008 at 06:52 PM.. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:05 PM   #5
Jackie07
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Well said, AlaskaAngel, thank you.

It reminded me of the Human Genome Project. I just looked up the name of Craig Venter. Some years ago, before he (and another scientist) got all the genes mapped, I saw him on PBS promoting 'his way' of mapping the human genome. The government was working on the project in a traditional way, predicted to take at least 5 (?can't remember the exact number) years. Dr. Venter was proposing a radically different approach. And he did it (with a lot of drama involved - see the entry in Wikipedia)
That is what's great about the open forum and creative thinking. He was thinking outside of the box, and he got great result.
__________________
Jackie07
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/06/doctors-letter-patient-newly-diagnosed-cancer.html
http://www.asco.org/ASCOv2/MultiMedi...=114&trackID=2

NICU 4.4 LB
Erythema Nodosum 85
Life-long Central Neurocytoma 4x5x6.5 cm 23 hrs 62090 semi-coma 10 d PT OT ST 30 d
3 Infertility tmts 99 > 3 u. fibroids > Pills
CN 3 GKRS 52301
IDC 1.2 cm Her2 +++ ER 5% R. Lmptmy SLNB+1 71703 6 FEC 33 R Tamoxifen
Recc IIB 2.5 cm Bi-L Mast 61407 2/9 nds PET
6 TCH Cellulitis - Lymphedema - compression sleeve & glove
H w x 4 MUGA 51 D, J 49 M
Diastasis recti
Tamoxifen B. scan
Irrtbl bowel 1'09
Colonoscopy 313
BRCA1 V1247I
hptc hemangioma
Vertigo
GI - > yogurt
hysterectomy/oophorectomy 011410
Exemestane 25 mg tab 102912 ~ 101016 stopped due to r. hip/l.thigh pain after long walk
DEXA 1/13
1-2016 lesions in liver largest 9mm & 1.3 cm onco. says not cancer.
3-11 Appendectomy - visually O.K., a lot of puss. Final path result - not cancer.
Start Vitamin D3 and Calcium supplement (600mg x2)
10-10 Stopped Exemestane due to r. hip/l.thigh pain OKed by Onco 11-08-2016
7-23-2018 9 mm groundglass nodule within the right lower lobe with indolent behavior. Due to possible adenocarcinoma, Recommend annual surveilence.
7-10-2019 CT to check lung nodule.
1-10-2020 8mm stable nodule on R Lung, two 6mm new ones on L Lung, a possible lymph node involvement in inter fissule.
"I WANT TO BE AN OUTRAGEOUS OLD WOMAN WHO NEVER GETS CALLED AN OLD LADY. I WANT TO GET SHARP EDGED & EARTH COLORED, TILL I FADE AWAY FROM PURE JOY." Irene from Tampa

Advocacy is a passion .. not a pastime - Joe
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Old 03-08-2008, 10:39 PM   #6
gdpawel
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Medicare Coverage for Oncologic In Vitro Chemoresponse Assays

A correction to Jachie07's posting:

National Heritage Insurance Company (NHIC), the contractor that administers Medicare programs in California, has established a positive coverage policy for Cell Culture Assay Tests known as Chemosensitivity (Resistance) Testing or Oncologic In Vitro Chemoresponse Assays for a tumor specimen from a Medicare patient obtained anywhere within the United States, but submitted for testing by one of the approved laboratories located within Southern California. Medicare bills for this testing are billed through NHIC because the test is conducted by the approved laboratories in California.

This pre-test can help see what treatments have the best opportunity of being successful for "high" risk cancer patients. The test measures the response of "live" tumor cells to drug exposure. Following this exposure, the assays measure both cell metabolism and cell morphology (Functional Profiling). The integrated effect of the drugs on the whole cell, resulting in a cellular response to the drug, measuring the interaction of the entire genome. Assays based on "cell-death" occur in the entire population of tumor cells.

This cell culture assay technology has been clinically validated for the selection of optimal chemotherapy regimens for individual patients. It is a laboratory analysis based on tumor tissue profiling that uses "fresh" human tumor biopsy or surgical specimen to determine which drugs or combinations of chemotherapeutic agents have the highest likelihood of response for individual cancer patients.

Following the collection of "fresh" tumor cells obtained from surgery or tru-cut needle biopsies, a cell culture assay is performed on the tumor sample to measure drug activity (sensitivity and resistance). This will pinpoint which drug(s) are most effective. Tissue, blood, bone marrow, and ascites and pleural effusions are possibilities, providing tumor cells are present. At least one gram of fresh tissue is needed to perform the tests, and a special kit is obtained in advance from the lab. The treatment program developed through this approach is known as assay-directed therapy.

Individualized assay-directed therapy is based on the premise that each patient's cancer cells are unique and therefore will respond differently to a given treatment. This is in stark contrast to standard or empiric therapy, which chemotherapy for a specific patient is based on average population studies from prior clinical trials.

The decision had been made that the assay is a perfectly appropriate medical service, worthy of coverage on a non-investigational basis. What is of particular significance is that they abandoned the artificial distinction between "resistance" testing and "sensitivity" testing and are providing coverage for the whole FDA-approved kit. Drug "sensitivity" testing is merely a point a little farther along on the very same continuum which "resistance" testing resides.

Cell cuture assay tests based on "cell-death" have proven very effective in identifying novel treatment combinations for a variety of cancers. The value of cell-death assays is that they can and do accurately predict clinical outcomes and define novel chemotherapeutic synergies. It can help see what treatments will not have the best opportunity of being successful (resistant) and identify drugs that have the best opportunity of being successful (sensitive).

The current clinical applications of in vitro chemosensitivity testing is ever more important with the influx of new "targeted" therapies. Given the technical and conceptual advantages of "functional profiling" of cell culture assays together with their performance and the modest efficacy for therapy prediction on analysis of genome expression, there is reason for renewed interest in these assays for optimized use of medical treatment of malignant disease.

The payment provided will be sufficiently realistic that all Medicare patients for whom this testing is indicated will be able to get it with only the routine 20% co-payment, as Medi-gap insurance secondaries are mandated to provide payment for co-pays for Medicare-approved services.

Medicare's National Coverage Decision specifically notes noncoverage on two distinct types of assays: a. human tumor stem cell assay, and b. clonogenic assay. These are what most academic oncologists still mistakenly refer to as chemosensitivity testing.

In October 2003, CMS notified all contractors that the NCD was very specific to those tests and does not include tumor cell sensitivity or resistance testing on any other class of cells other than tumor stem cells. In 2006, Medicare officially recognized cancer chemosensitivity tests as a special test category in Federal Regulations (42 CFR 414.510(b)(3), 71 FR 69705, 12/01/2006).

Two Medicare contractors (NHIC Medicare Services and Highmark Medicare Services) established reimbursement coverage policies for cell culture assay tests, the same way that the Oncotype DX assay is being covered. Medicare bills for Chemosensitivity (Resistance) Testing, from any Medicare patients, anywhere in the United States, are billed through NHIC and Highmark Medicare Services because the test is conducted by approved laboratories in Southern California and one in Pennsylvania. As far as payments for this test, it is just as good as having a NCD. Numerous private payors pay for the tests also.

As with any other laboratory tests in cancer medicine, the determination of the efficacy of cell culture assays is based on clinical correlations (comparisions of laboratory results with patient response). The "standard" of retrospective correlations between treatment outcomes and laboratory results is sufficient in the case of ALL laboratory tests. It is what established FDA-approval for the test kit.

The coverage became effective for claims for services performed on or after February 19, 2007. The decision is posted at:

http://www.medicarenhic.com/cal_prov/articles/chemoassaytest_0107.htm

NHIC Medicare Services reimburses qualified laboratories in Southern California for cell culture assay tests on a Medicare patient anywhere in the United States.

Likewise, Highmark Medicare Services reimburses a qualified laboratory in Pennsylvania for cell culture assay tests on a Medicare patient anywhere in the United States.

NHIC has jurisdiction over Southern California, so that is who gets billed when the laboratory is located in California.

Highmark has jurisdiction over laboratories in Pennsylvania, so that is who gets billed when the laboratory is located in Pennsylvania.

The coverage decision is posted at:

http://www.highmarkmedicareservices.com/bulletins/partb/news06132007.html
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:12 PM
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