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Old 10-27-2013, 12:16 PM   #1
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

This Chinese paper compares bone metabolism in two groups with high fluoride intake from water. The water of one group was low in iodine and the other contained modest amounts of iodine.

The iodine moderated the effect of fluoride on bone re-absortion / deposition.


http://www.cmj.org/ch/reader/view_ab...start_page=675

and this paper links dental health to thyroid function

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms

and concludes

"Understanding thyroid hormone metabolism is essential in understanding fluoride
toxicity. Further research, be it on dental or skeletal fluorosis, effects on IQ,
oxidative stress, etc., should focus on this matter with utmost urgency, since it is
here that all observed adverse effects can be explained, thereby leading to a new
toxicological assessment of “fluorosis”, and, most importantly, proper treatment
and prevention."




but (below) residents of Porto Santo whose water naturally used to contain high amounts of fluoride had high levels of fluorosis. Do they eat a lot of sardines; I do not know, but probably did eat more marine foods than the average, which raises questions as to the relationship between iodine and fluoride, and to what extent higher levels of fluoride can be mitigated by iodine,and how much iodine intake is needed.

https://iadr.confex.com/iadr/2007orl...ract_93262.htm

Last edited by R.B.; 10-27-2013 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:28 PM   #2
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

I have also included this in part in the summary as I think these papers are important.

The presence of selenium and other minerals in fish may explain why fish intake that is likely high in fluoride (eg whole fish such as sardines) is not generally associated with thyroid conditions etc.

The Chinese paper starkly demonstrates that higher iodine alone will not necessarily prevent the inhibition by excess or imbalance of fluoride of thyroid function and the induction of goiter or indeed fluorosis.


Importantly this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms Chinese study of a population with both high fluoride 3mg per litre (approx) and relatively high iodine 1mg per liter (approx) in their water observed "In high iodine and high fluorine areas, the goiter and dental fluorosis rates of children aged from 8 to 12 were 29.8% and 72.98%.", which suggests that higher iodine alone may not mitigate high fluoride intake. It looks as if the picture is more complex and also involves mineral intake; likely all of the 'elements' (as in pieces of the nutritional jigsaw - no pun intended ) need to be in place to minimise the risk of fluorosis / wider iodine / thyroid dysfunction.

Does high fluoride intake in whole marine foods have the same effect is a question I raise, as we have always associated fish intake with healthy populations. Fish would also contain important minerals such as selenium and zinc.

Fluoride apparently actively binds with selenium which interestingly may be protective against the effects of fluoride. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20143719 Apparently it also bind with other minerals, so could part of the effect of fluoride be to inactivate minerals, which are often already in short supply in the western diet, but are provided in marine foods. This mechanism would in nutritional terms be a double edged sword;

- protection against excess fluoride by deactivation of fluoride by binding to minerals good.

- deactivation of important minerals that are already deficient in many diets bad.


An unreferenced comment here http://www.healthyshopping.com/OlaLoa/autism.asp by Richard A. Kunin, M.D. said interestingly


" Fluoride forms insoluble complexes with selenium. Since selenium is strongly electropositive, it combines with fluoride preferentially, with even greater avidity than calcium, magnesium, iron, zinc, sodium, potassium. The total adult body content of selenium is less than 100 mg, so little as to be vulnerable to sodium fluoride intakes of 3 to 5 mg per day, which are usual in this country because of fluoridation and fluoridated toothpaste. Consider that vital trace minerals, such as selenium, chromium and molybdenum, are ingested on average only about 50 mcg per day. Fluoride intake is 100 times more and fluoride complexes are likely to inactivate these trace minerals by rendering them insoluble--even in the presence of calcium, magnesium, boron or aluminum salts, which also bind with fluoride. Sodium fluoride, the relatively soluble fluoride used in water fluoridation, preferentially binds to the trace minerals, selenium and chromium."


This paper refers to possible links between calcium and magnesium deficiences and populations at risk of fluorosis. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms

Last edited by R.B.; 10-28-2013 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:13 PM   #3
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

Flourine contamination from industrial sources may be a significant issue if this paper from the 1950s still holds. It contains a powerful image of a leg bone of a cow with fluorosis, which resembles a knobbly tree branch in texture.


PS if you have got this far without falling asleep; very well done


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms

"The problem of fluorosis in farm animals in Britain
is not due to the high fluorine content of rock phosphate
deposits, volcanic soils, or water supplies, but
arises from the emission of fluorine containing gases
and dusts from industrial plants.
If the density of our
industrial areas is considered in relation to the relatively
small area of the whole country, it can be readily
understood that a great deal of agricultural land must
be adjacent to industrial works.
The chief sources of fluorine contamination of
grassland and crops are: (1) steel and metal works
when the method of production involves the use of
large amounts of fluorspar as a flux ; (2) brickworks,
where the source is usually the local clay, although coal
is sometimes a contributory factor; (3) production of
aluminium by the electrolytic reduction of alumina;
(4) glass, enamel, and colour works where fluorine
compounds are often added to facilitate melting and to
give the finished products certain properties ; (5) the
calcining of iron-stone where the sourtie is mainly the
fluorine-rich ore itself; (6) potteries and other ceramic
industries where the materials used in manufacture are
high in fluorine; (7) collieries, power stations and
other industries which consume large quantities of
pulverised low-grade coal with a high fluorine content.

It is generally accepted that the fluorine content
of most plants, with the exception of the roots, is
not readily affected by the amount of fluorine in the
soil. There seem to be a few exceptions to this, notably
the tea plant. and the camellia, which appear to
be fluorine collectors, but common fluorine values for uncontaminated animal foodstuffs lie between 1 and
10 p.p.m. on a dry matter basis. Excessively high
values’ up to 2000 p.p.m. have been reported (Green
1946) on herbage near sources of emission of fluorine
compounds. "


and a paper called The Emerging Medical and Geological Association from The American Clinical and Climatological Association http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1473139/ states


"The health problems caused by fluorine volatilized during domestic coal use are far more extensive than those caused by arsenic. More than 10 million people in Guizhou Province and surrounding areas suffer from various forms of fluorosis. Typical symptoms of fluorosis include mottling of tooth enamel (dental fluorosis) and various forms of skeletal fluorosis including osteosclerosis, limited movement of the joints, and outward manifestations such as knock-knees, bow legs, and spinal curvature. Fluorosis combined with nutritional deficiencies in children can result in severe bone deformation.

The etiology of fluorosis is similar to that of arseniasis in that the disease is derived from foods dried over coal-burning stoves. Adsorption of fluorine by corn dried over unvented ovens burning high ([greater than, closed by curve, equal, slanted]200 ppm) fluorine coal is the probable cause of the extensive dental and skeletal fluorosis in southwest China. The problem is compounded by the use of clay as a binder for making briquettes. The clay used is a high-fluorine (mean value of 903 ppm) residue formed by intense leaching of a limestone substrate."

In the west we do not have the same level of exposure but it is clear that coal could be a significant source of flourine emissions

Last edited by R.B.; 10-28-2013 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:56 PM   #4
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

Two further papers suggesting mineral deficiency as well as fluoride plays a part in fluorosis

http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJF...F200802013.htm

http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJF...W200204035.htm
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:08 PM   #5
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

And this paper http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms powerfully makes the point that water flouride levels of 1.4 and 1.6 mg/l can result in significant levels of fluorosis 62.96% and 76.49% respectively - they also noted the water was low in zinc and selenium - so maybe there is a cautionary tale here;

The determination of a safe fluoride intake should have regard to wider mineral intake

High fluoride levels may ? reduce mineral availability, which is particularly relevant in those who are already mineral deficient.


Given many in the west are mineral deficient in one or more minerals this may be of particular significance.

Last edited by R.B.; 10-28-2013 at 04:17 AM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:57 AM   #6
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

It occurred to me after writing the above post that I had previously seen a paper linking thyroid dysfunction / goitre with areas know to be low in selenium.

Logically this risk will be greater in areas of high flouride in water and food, the level of other goitrogens in the diet, on the basis that the fluoride may bind with some of the limited available selenium so exacerbating the deficiency.

Selenium is widely recognised as essential to thyroid function, and its absence leads to dysfunction.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487769

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487769

and

J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Jul-Aug;15(7):1027-31.
Iodine and selenium deficiency in school-children in an endemic goiter area in Turkey.
Aydin K, Kendirci M, Kurtoğlu S, Karaküçük EI, Kiriş A.
Source

Selcuk University Medical Faculty, Konya, Turkey. kursaday@hotmail.com
Abstract

Endemic goiter is one of the most important health problems in Turkey. However, there are not enough studies associated with iodine and selenium status. This study was carried out to establish the effects of iodine and selenium levels on thyroid gland size and thyroid functions in 73 healthy school-children, 7-12 years old (mean 9.56 +/- 1.77 years), 38 girls (52%) and 35 boys (48%), living in an endemic goiter area. Goiter was found in 32 of the children (43.8%) by palpation, and 56 of the children (76.7%) by ultrasonography. Mean serum T3 and TSH levels were in the upper limit of normal, and mean serum T4 levels were within the normal limits, but mean serum thyroglobulin levels were higher than the normal limits. Mean serum selenium level was 30.84 +/- 23.04 microg/l, and mean urinary iodine level was 3.91 +/- 3.77 microg/dl, appropriate for moderate iodine and selenium deficiency. Thyroid volumes of the children were negatively correlated with serum selenium levels, but there was no correlation with urinary iodine levels and thyroid hormones. In conclusion, school-children in this area had significant goiter problems, probably due to the iodine and selenium deficiencies.

Last edited by R.B.; 10-30-2013 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:02 AM   #7
R.B.
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Re: Iodine deficiency ! - falling intakes - goitregens - competition bromine and fluo

Of the flouride we ingest a proportion is retained in the body mainly in the bones, and some in organs that calcify like arteries. If intake is significantly lowered some, a limited amount, of the deposited fouride will leave the body. Much as yet is unknown but it appears in general the amount of fluoride in bone increases throughout life.

This paper http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...55123115,d.Yms used radioactive fluoride for a pet scan. It is very clear from the PET scan image in the paper where most of the fluoride ends up, the spine, and interestingly some is evidently taken up by the blood vessels.



The effects at flouride intakes in the particular background circumstances that lead to fluorosis of the bone are devastating as clearly evident from this video. http://fluoridealert.org/fan-tv/crippling-waters/

High fluoride in bones is associated with more brittle bones etc. What the effects of a lifetimes accumulation of fouride are in more 'normal' circumstances is much less clear.

It appears that fluoride intake from our youngest moments is in a sense 'for life', and it is probably only in the long term that we will have a better understanding of the effects of our increasing intake from a range of sources including water, and how other factors such as iodine and mineral intake effect fluoride metabolism .


Association of vascular fluoride uptake with vascular
calcification and coronary artery disease
Yuxin Lia, Gholam R. Berenjia, Wisam F. Shabaa, Bashir Taftia, Ella Yevdayeva
and Simin Dadparvarb

Conclusion sodium [18F]fluoride PET/CT might be
useful in the evaluation of the atherosclerotic process in
major arteries, including coronary arteries. An increased
fluoride uptake in coronary arteries may be associated with
an increased cardiovascular risk.

Last edited by R.B.; 10-29-2013 at 10:21 AM..
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