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Old 08-30-2012, 05:03 PM   #1
carolanno
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 19
Re: once again, ER+her2+ breast cancer is found to behave differently than ER-her2+

My primary tumor in 1998 was ER-, recurrent tumor in 2001 was ER-. Malignant lymph node 10 years later in 2011 was ER+, 50-100%, intermediate intensity. This info never got to my treatment team so they went with the cytology result of ER- and considered it a second recurrence. In June of this year, another breast tumor appeared that was also ER- from biopsy results. Once I discovered node was actually ER+, I asked to have breast tumor sample tested and it came back weakly ER+. A retest of the node was 11-50%, weak intensity. So the questions are: 1) Was this a new primary? 2) How stable and reliable is ER status? 3) Did my tumor cells find something else to drive them when HER2 was weakened by treatment? 4) Will I benefit from hormone therapy? Two oncologists feel that Her2 status is the defining marker so it's probably all the same disease. A third oncologist suggested my progression acted like an ER+ tumor progression and thought the primary must have been ER+ too. Given my experience, your post caught my eye. I'm not sure where I fall prognostically now. Can you tell me where I can read that article? Do you have any other references? Anyone else out there have changes or inconsistencies in ER status? Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:05 PM   #2
Lani
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Re: once again, ER+her2+ breast cancer is found to behave differently than ER-her2+

I have posted many times before on how mets can differ from primary tumor with respect to ER PR and even her2 status

I have even posted how Stephanie Jeffrey @ Stanford with her MagSweeper technology for CTC identification and typing has shown tremendous heterogeneity of CTCs in patients--even triple negative CTCs floating around in the blood of her2+Stage IV breast cancer patients on herceptin

There are many ways this can come about. If you apply weed killer to a lawn, those plants not susceptible to it will take over and not have any competition for nutrients. It is not as if the weeds (cancer cells with different ER PR and/or her2 status ) weren't there before, they were just out-competed. Another way this can occur is by new mutations (takes much longer actually) or by epigenetic silencing ie, a glob of methylation groups or acetylation groups grabs onto the DNA just at the point where a specific gene is located and needs to be "read" by mRNA to be turned into a protein (DNA is the recipe, mRNA is the cook, protein is the cake or souffle) If the ER gene or PR gene or her2 gene is covered in goop the cook can't read the recipe and that ingredient gets left out of the cake/souffle)

The last way to explain it and this week some Stanford scientists from Irving Weissman's lab and Staphen Quake's lab found that cancer stem cells probably are not an entity that develops overnight but rather the result of a series of mutations that occur stepwise in a normal stem cell and finally in the end result in a cell out of control. This is felt to explain why cancer usually happens in older people as it takes quite a while for just the specific step mutations to occur in sequence to end up with that result.

There are treatments which have resulted in ER- patients becoming er+ and thus treatable with antihormonals. I think I may even have posted something about it on this board.

Hope this helps.

Feel free to put "conversion estrogen receptor negative to estrogen receptor postitive breast cancer" and "conversion of receptor or ER status" into entrez pubmed and see what you come up with.

Good luck
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:07 PM   #3
Lani
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Re: once again, ER+her2+ breast cancer is found to behave differently than ER-her2+

the Stanford article is about leukemias but there is no obvious reason it shouldn't hold for breast cancer as well:


AUG. 29, 2012

Researchers prove that leukemias arise from changes that accumulate in blood stem cells

BY CHRISTOPHER VAUGHAN




Imagine that a police bomb squad comes upon a diabolically designed bomb controlled by a tangled mass of different wires, lights and switches, some of which have a real function while others are decoys. The police don’t know how to begin defusing the bomb because they don’t know which parts are important. Then imagine the police discover the bomb-making factory and are able to see hundreds of these bombs at various stages of construction. With this information, they can reconstruct how the bomb was put together, and therefore how to disarm it.

For a team of researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine, the bombs they need to defuse are killer leukemias. The researchers report that they have used advanced techniques to survey what’s in the “bomb factory:” the stem cells that produce all blood cells. In the process, they have proven a controversial theory that blood cancers — and perhaps all cancers — arise only when mutations accumulate over long periods of time in stem cells.

The research, published Aug. 29 in Science Translational Medicine, also sets the stage for the discovery of more effective therapies for defeating deadly cancers.

People with acute leukemias — cancers of the blood — are especially difficult to cure. Although doctors can drive leukemias into remission with chemotherapy, most of these cancers eventually come roaring back. About 60 percent of those who get acute myelogenous leukemia will ultimately die from it, a statistic that has improved little in the past 30 years.


Cancer is caused in part by genetic mutations, but cancer cells are often full of these mutations, some of which are important and some not. “Each cancer-causing mutation is potentially a therapeutic target because we might be able to fix or block it, but we have to know which mutations to focus on,” said Ravi Majeti, MD, PhD, assistant professor of hematology and a co-principal author of the paper. His fellow principal co-authors are bioengineering professor Stephen Quake, PhD, and professor of pathology Irving Weissman, MD, who directs Stanford’s Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine and the Ludwig Center for Cancer Stem Cell Research and Medicine at Stanford.

The researchers decided to test a hypothesis Weissman made more than a decade ago: That the progression from a normal stem cell to a leukemia stem cell occurs mostly in blood stem cells.

Weissman hypothesized that rare mutations and gene translocations accumulate in a line of blood stem cells to the point that the cancer or leukemia can break free of growth constraints and spread, eventually leading the altered blood stem cell to produce a progenitor cell from which leukemia arises. This hypothesis was investigated by graduate students Max Jan and Ryan Corces-Zimmerman, and postdoctoral scholar Thomas Snyder, the three co-first authors who conducted genetic analyses of 80-500 individual blood stem cells from each of six leukemia patients.

In the leukemia patients, even normal-seeming blood stem cells had one or more mutations because the cells were part way through the process of accumulating the mutations and other heritable changes in gene expression to become highly malignant. When the researchers compared mutations in these seemingly normal blood stem cells with the leukemia cells, they could reconstruct exactly which mutations led to the leukemia, and the order in which the mutations arose. They did this by looking for blood-forming stem cells with a single mutation, which they knew must be the first, then finding other stem cells with that first mutation plus one other, which they could then identify as the second. They continued to do this until they found examples of stem cells at each stage of mutation accumulation, leading up to the full set of mutations found in the actual leukemia cell.

The research confirms a once controversial theory. The traditional view has been that any blood cell could turn cancerous if it picked up the “right” mutations. Stanford scientists like Weissman have suggested that, in reality, only blood stem cells could accumulate enough of the those mutations to become cancerous. That’s because when blood stem cells divide into two, one cell retains its stem cell properties in order to self-renew, while the “daughter” cell continues to divide. The blood stem cells are therefore are present throughout life, while the stem cells’ progeny have life spans from days to weeks only.

“The natural mutation rate is slow enough that only the stem cells are around long enough to accumulate all of the necessary mutations and other inherited changes in gene expression to develop the cancer,” said Weissman. “I guarantee that in any room there are people who have blood cells with a cancerous mutation, but it doesn’t matter because in almost every case those cells die out naturally before they get the whole set of mutations that will give rise to an actual leukemia.”

Majeti, who is also a member of the Stanford Cancer Institute and the Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine, pointed out that having the correct model of how leukemias arise is important because it helps determine what kind of therapy might be most effective. “Because relapse is a clinical problem, we need to know if chemotherapy has somehow not killed all the leukemia cells, or perhaps it did kill all the leukemia cells, but new leukemias are arising from this pool of stem cells with preleukemic mutations,” Majeti said. “In the first case, we would want to do a better job of killing the leukemia cells, but in the latter case, for some patients it wouldn’t matter how well you do at killing leukemia cells if you don’t eliminate the mutated blood stem cells.” The next phase of the team’s research will focus on answering such questions, he added.

And although the research deals with leukemia, the implications could be much broader, Weissman said. “This confirms the hypothesis that for leukemias, all of the early mutation events occur in blood-forming stem cells, but it opens the possibility that the same will be true for other cancers, and perhaps all cancers. The progression to the cancer might occur in the normal stem cells of any particular tissue, and the cancer would only emerge as the full set of mutations accumulate.”

The leukemia findings are not only significant medically, but also showcase the benefits of conducting interdisciplinary research, said Quake, who located part of his advanced bioengineering research group to Stanford’s Lokey Stem Cell Research Building so that studies like this could be done more often. “This research highlights how advances in high technology and advances in stem cell research can complement each other to address difficult problems, such as human leukemias, which could not be answered by technology or medicine alone,” he said.

The research was funded by the Steinhart-Reed Foundation, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, the National Institutes of Health, the Ellison Medical Foundation, the Ludwig Foundation, the Lucille P. Markey Charitable Trust, the National Science Foundation, the Burroughs Wellcome Fund and the New York Stem Cell Foundation.

PRINT MEDIA CONTACT
Krista Conger | Tel (650) 725-5371
kristac@stanford.edu
BROADCAST MEDIA CONTACT
M.A. Malone | Tel (650) 723-6912
mamalone@stanford.edu
Stanford University Medical Center integrates research, medical education and patient care at its three institutions - Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford Hospital & Clinics and Lucile Packard Children's Hospital. For more information, please visit the Office of Communication & Public Affairs site at http://mednews.stanford.edu/.
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