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12-09-2008, 04:12 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 141
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Degenerative changes in spine?
Hi everyone-
When I was initially diagnosed with stage T1MIC (DCIS with less than 1mm of a microinvation) bc in Febuary 08', my oncologist ordered a baseline CT scan of the chest, abdomen, and pelvis and all was normal. I also had a baseline bone scan which was normal.
I need help understanding my most recent CT-scan report. Last week I had a ct scan of my chest, abdomen and pelvis because of digestive issues. All came back normal except the following comment is making me nervous "Bone windows demonstrate NO lytic or blastic lesions".(I know if there are bone mets then lytic/blastic lesions are usually present.)
Below is the part that worries me:
"Degenerative changes are present in the spine" . My back has been bothering me on and off but lately it's been fine and not getting worse. After reading my report I spoke to my primary physician she who said that comment is nothing to worry about because degenerative changes relate to arthritis. Is this common with someone who is only 39 years old? Could this degeneration be caused by mets even though there are no lytic or blastic lesions present in the bone windows? I have read that mets show up differently from degerative changes but am still worried. May be I'm reading into this too much but 9-10 months ago my spine was fine and now I have degenrative changes present in the spine.
Can anyone offer any input/advice...please.
LizM
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12-09-2008, 06:47 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central Coast, CA
Posts: 3,207
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LIZ-
I had that exact comment on a scan years ago - and of course all the big words freaked me out, too.
My oncologist was kind enough to translate it:
YEAH - DEGENERATIVE CHANGES - that means you're getting older, and that's the whole idea!
So, my take on it is the scan saw no cancer related issues with the bones, and some minor arthritis on the spine. I've had countless scans and at least 1 bone scan since the reported "degenerative changes" and guess what - it has never been mentioned since!
Maybe yours hasn't even really changed since the baseline scans, it was just missed or not commented on.
Bothersome backs are pretty common, sounds like it's fine now - good. Report says no cancer, doctor says not to worry...my input is to believer her. If you have persistent problems, of course you would want to get them checked out, but it all sounds like "good" news right now!
Take care
Chris
__________________
Chris in Scotts Valley
June 2002 extensive hi grade DCIS (pre-cancer-stage 0, clean sentinal node) Mastectomy/implant - no chemo, rads. "cured?"
9/2004 Diag: Stage IV extensive liver mets (!) ER/PR- Her2+++
10/04-3/05 Weekly Taxol/Carboplatin/Herceptin , complete response!
04/05 - 4/07 Herception every 3 wks, Continue NED
04/07 - recurrence to liver - 2 spots, starting tykerb/avastin trial
06/07 8/07 10/07 Scans show stable, continue on Tykerb/Avastin
01/08 Progression in liver
02/08 Begin (TDM1) trial
08/08 NED! It's Working! Continue on TDM1
02/09 Continue NED
02/10 Continue NED. 5/10 9/10 Scans NED 10/10 Scans NED
12/10 Scans not clear....4/11 Scans suggest progression 6/11 progression confirmed in liver
07/11 - 11/11 Herceptin/Xeloda -not working:(
12/11 Begin MM302 Phase I trial - bust:(
03/12 3rd times the charm? AKT trial
5/12 Scan shows reduction! 7/12 More reduction!!!!
8/12 Whoops...progression...trying for Perjeta/Herceptin (plus some more nasty chemo!)
9/12 Start Perjeta/Herceptin, chemo on hold due to infection/wound in leg, added on cycle 2 &3
11/12 Poops! progression in liver, Stop Perjeta/Taxo/Herc
11/12 Navelbine/Herce[ptin - try for a 3 cycles, no go.
2/13 Gemzar/Carbo/Herceptin - no go.
3/13 TACE procedure
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12-09-2008, 08:26 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stockton, NJ
Posts: 4,179
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I also want to add that treatment does age us in ways we cannot see but sometimes it shows up in testing. Bones can take the brunt of chemotherapy and a less than optimal diet while in therapy, lack of exercise. We all know that anthracyclins like Adriamycin or Epirubicin as well as our favorite drug, Herceptin, can cause heart damage.
I would not dwell on this scan finding of the normal (or accelerated due chemo)ageing process.
Peace,
__________________
Kind regards
Becky
Found lump via BSE
Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45
1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side)
2 micromets to sentinel node
Stage 2A
left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg
lumpectomies 9/7/04
4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol
Used Leukine instead of Neulasta
35 rads on right side only
4/05 started Tamoxifen
Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to
trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations
Oophorectomy 8/05
Started Arimidex 9/05
Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06
Arimidex Only
Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia
NED 18 years!
Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think"
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12-09-2008, 09:05 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,142
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Degenerative changes in spine?
Some cancer drugs like aromatase inhibitors can speed up degeneration in the bones. Have you had a dexa scan for osteoporosis or arthritis? The dexa scan focuses on the spine and hips.
Some people can have arthritis at a young age. Even children can get it.
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12-10-2008, 12:51 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: RHODE ISLAND
(Ed getting me a latte on 2nd Cancerversary Cruise 2008)
'BELIEVE': To accept as true or real, To have faith in, To presume
ALWAYS BELIEVE
Posts: 3,000
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Hey Liz. I have these same issues with my spine which is not the best spines known to man!! LOL. I do not have cancer. Part of these issues are from the normal aging process.
Remember that this is the time of year for our bones to 'act up' with such things as arthritis. No blastic or lytic lesions.....run with it Babe!>>Believe51
__________________
9/7/06Husband 50yrs=StageIV IBC/HER2+,BoneMets10/06TaxotereX10,'H'1X wk,Zometa,Tamoxifen4/12/07Last Tax5/18/07Pet=Rapid Cell Activity,No Organ Mets,Lytic Lesions,Degeneration,Some Bone Repair5/07ChemoFail6/01/07Pleural Thoracentisis=Effusions,NoMalignantCells6/19/07+7/2/07DFCI
6/25/07BrainMRI=BrainMets,Many<9mm7/10/07WBR/PelvisRad37.5Gx15&Nutritionist8/19/07T/X9/20/07BrainMRI=2<2mm10/6/07Pet=BoneProgression
10/24/07ChemoFail11/9/07A/Cx10,EndTam12/7/07Faslodex12/10/07Muga7512/13/07BlasticLesions1/7/08BrainMRI=Clear4/1/08Pet=BoneImprovement,
NoProgression,Stable4/7/08BrainPerfect5/16/08Last A/C8/26/08BrainMets=10(<9mm)9/10/08Gamma10/30/08Met=5mm12/19/08Gamma5mets5
12/22/08SpinalMets1/14/09SpinalRads2/17/09BrainMRI=NoNewMets4/20/09BoneScan5/14/09Ixempra6/1/09BrainMRI=NumerousMets6/24/09DFCIw/DrBurstein6/26/09Continue
Ixempra/Faslodex/Zometa~TM now lower7/17/09Stop Ixempra By Choice9/21/09HOSPICE10/16/09Earned His Deserved Wings And Halo=37 Month Fight w/Stage 4 IBC, Her2+++,My Hero!!
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12-10-2008, 06:58 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wilmington, Del.
Posts: 1,126
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degenerative changes to the spine - Welcome to the arthritis club. Those big words make it sound as if we are crumbling like an old stone wall!!
__________________
MJO
IDC, Stage I, Grade 2
Oncotype DX Score 32
Her2++ E+P+, Node Neg.
Lumpectomy 11/04/05 Clear Margins
3 Dose dense AC (Couldn't tolerate 4)
4 Dose dense Taxol & Herc. (Tolerated well)
36 weeks Herceptin (Could not complete one year due to decrease in MUGA score)
2 years of Arimidex, then three years of Femara
Finished Femara May 2011
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12-11-2008, 07:40 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: RHODE ISLAND
(Ed getting me a latte on 2nd Cancerversary Cruise 2008)
'BELIEVE': To accept as true or real, To have faith in, To presume
ALWAYS BELIEVE
Posts: 3,000
|
Hey Mjo, was it you that stole my cane?? LOL!>>Believe51
__________________
9/7/06Husband 50yrs=StageIV IBC/HER2+,BoneMets10/06TaxotereX10,'H'1X wk,Zometa,Tamoxifen4/12/07Last Tax5/18/07Pet=Rapid Cell Activity,No Organ Mets,Lytic Lesions,Degeneration,Some Bone Repair5/07ChemoFail6/01/07Pleural Thoracentisis=Effusions,NoMalignantCells6/19/07+7/2/07DFCI
6/25/07BrainMRI=BrainMets,Many<9mm7/10/07WBR/PelvisRad37.5Gx15&Nutritionist8/19/07T/X9/20/07BrainMRI=2<2mm10/6/07Pet=BoneProgression
10/24/07ChemoFail11/9/07A/Cx10,EndTam12/7/07Faslodex12/10/07Muga7512/13/07BlasticLesions1/7/08BrainMRI=Clear4/1/08Pet=BoneImprovement,
NoProgression,Stable4/7/08BrainPerfect5/16/08Last A/C8/26/08BrainMets=10(<9mm)9/10/08Gamma10/30/08Met=5mm12/19/08Gamma5mets5
12/22/08SpinalMets1/14/09SpinalRads2/17/09BrainMRI=NoNewMets4/20/09BoneScan5/14/09Ixempra6/1/09BrainMRI=NumerousMets6/24/09DFCIw/DrBurstein6/26/09Continue
Ixempra/Faslodex/Zometa~TM now lower7/17/09Stop Ixempra By Choice9/21/09HOSPICE10/16/09Earned His Deserved Wings And Halo=37 Month Fight w/Stage 4 IBC, Her2+++,My Hero!!
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12-11-2008, 12:45 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 141
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Chrisy, Becky, ElaineM, Believe, and MJO-
A BIG (((hug))) to all of you for taking the time to respond and sharing your knowledge. You ladies are a Godsend and I don't know what I would do without you.
Last night I spoke to my oncologist and he too feels the changes are "degenerative" and he was kind enough to review my scans and reports while on phone with me, talk about a caring and compasionate doctor. He's awesome. But since I have had new aches and pains this year and if I'm really concerned than I can have a bone scan to ease my anxiety so that's what I'm having. I know that I need to find a happy medium; to stay vigilant but yet go on with my life. Any advise on how to do that?
THANK YOU again!
Liz
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