Cardiac function, MUGA results

carstell · 06-19-2008, 03:15 PM

Hi all,
I just had my 3rd MUGA scan Tuesday. I am done with my 4 DD A/C and have 1 more of 12 Taxol/Herceptin tomorrow(6/20). My results have gone down each time. 72%,66%,63%. My dr assures me that my results are still good, but the decrease concernes me. I will start every 3 week Herceptin for the next 10 months and tamoxifin. Any one have cardiac issues? When did your doc get concerned?

Cheryl

DanaRT · 06-19-2008, 06:30 PM

Cheryl,

I share your concerns. I asked and found out anything above 50% is good/normal. My MUGA has dropped one point. My third MUGA will be scheduled in July.

Your MUGA's seem great!

Dana

CindyE · 06-20-2008, 08:28 PM

Cheryl,
Recently I had my first baseline muga scan and the score was 55. I consider myself young and healthy and so concerned that my baseline score was low. But my GP and Onc Dr both tell me my score is normal. They say everyone's range is a bit different and not to worry. I should be having my first follow-up muga done soon and I will be so curious to see what the next score is.

So I will wait and see. In the mean time, it think it's important not too worry too much about this. Take care,
Cindy

SoCalGal · 06-20-2008, 11:20 PM

I had a 2 d echo. My december score was 60% and that was before herceptin began. Last week my score was 70%. I think it's the coQ10. Or irony.

~Bellydancer~ · 06-21-2008, 05:32 PM

I had a baseline MUGA score of 62% and after FEC x3 ,Taxotere/Herceptin x3 and Herceptin x1 my score dropped to 42%. I am off Herceptin now for good as CDN Standard of care states that a hold 2x means stopping Herceptin. I am seeing the Cardiologist on Tuesday, the 24th so I will let you know what he says.

Jackie07 · 06-24-2008, 10:15 AM

I was diagnosed with mitral valve prolapse back in 1985 when I developed erythema nodosum (red dots on legs).
My muga scan dropped pretty fast after chemo and weekly Herceptin, and we had to stop last December.
I did some research and did find that in England, Herceptin was only given for 12 weeks (?) and the result is almost the same as the one year regimen. Certainly the British government might have tried to justify it because of socialized medicine.

At least one member had reported that she got her Muga score up by exercising. You might want to try that regardless if you want to go back to Herceptin.

carstell · 06-24-2008, 11:02 AM

I know that my numbers are pretty good, I was just concerned with the 10% drop. I will talk to my Dr. before I start the maintenence Herceptin. I am also trying to get a little exercising started. I just finished my Taxol last Friday, so I am taking baby steps. Thanks for the info!
Cheryl

~Bellydancer~ · 06-24-2008, 02:54 PM

Hello,
I just returned home from the Cardiologist. I will Never, ever have Herceptin again. He says that since I have suffered damage that is it. He feels that anyone with cardio risk factors should not take Herceptin. I was a smoker who quit prior to surgery and STUPIDLY started to have a few again. That is it for the smoking for sure!!!! He also stated that there are 3 categories, 1/3 need a heart replacement, 1/3 never regain the lost function and 1/3 do. I am one that may stay the same or get better. Had I not been so stupid years ago and started to smoke I wouldn't be having this problem!!!
All I can do is move forward.

chrisy · 06-24-2008, 04:16 PM

Belly dancer,
Sounds like your cardiologist put his foot down pretty hard, but you know that this is for your own well being. You are also right, all you can do no is keep looking forward! I'm not sure I understood your comments about what the cardiologist said, but I do not think that the 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 are statistically based statements. I believe most women who have cardiac issues related to Herceptin do recover - but again, I'm not a doctor and I'm also not familiar with what other issues and risk factors you may have. Think positive, and keep away from those nasty ciggys (easy for me to say, I know!).

Carla,
You are correct, your numbers are still very good. and are likely to stay that way. Mine got down to around the mid 50's but then they also bounced back up from time to time while on Herceptin. The best you can do is what you would "normally" do for a healthy heart - moderate exercise, eat well, etc. i also took CoQ10 as many others do, I believe it helps. And of course fish oil if you have no 'thin blood' problems.

You should also know that the timing of the MUGA/Echo is important - especially once you are on the every 3 weeks Herceptin dosage you want to have the MUGA right before your treatment, not right after as the numbers do fluctuate and are usually better the further out you are from the treatment.

Good luck, hang in there (both of you!)

~Bellydancer~ · 06-24-2008, 07:26 PM

This Cardiologist has been studying the effects of Herceptin on the heart here in Winnipeg. I am patient number 82 for him for just this reason. He started to do his study in 2006. The 1/3 comments were for women who developed heart issues. The ones who require transplants are the ones with scores of 10%. They also had other underlying issues. Thankfully I am healthy and my only risk factor was the smoking, which over time will heal itself as well. I think that the point he is making is that he feels the damage is more substantial than they initially thought.

carstell · 06-28-2008, 11:33 AM

Thanks Chris- I have been taking the COQ10 and fish oil. I feel that besides the lack of exercise, I have done all that I can. Now I am trying to start back with the exercise, and hope the numbers stop dropping!
Ps- How much COQ 10 are you taking?
Cheryl

Henny · 06-29-2008, 08:46 PM

I also had a drop in my heart fx after 8 months of herceptin. It went from 82% pre treatment to 54%. Since I was still above the 50% mark, I had 2 more herceptin infusions and then another MUGA. This time it went up to 63%.

Chrisy, I am interested in what you said about the timing of the MUGAs. It there a study or any articles about that? I know it is true for me. When my ejection fraction was lower I felt very different. A cardiologist friend said the heceptin stresses the heart cells and they don't contract the way they should to get a strong heart beat. He recommended to still exercise but not to stress my heart (so no sprinting in the swimming pool like I used to do). I'm just trying to chill out and get through the next couple infusions but that's not very easy-just want to get past this part and get that pesky port out.

Henny

07-02-2008, 09:39 AM

Hi:

I read your post as someone who has had a slew of MUGA's/Echocardiograms since diagnosis back in 2002. Back in '02 my doctors never did a baseline MUGA. So I'll always wonder about that issue.

Anyway, my scores of late haven't been the best. Going back a year or so my score was 51. That didn't sound promising. Then my doctor began scheduling echos every six months and naturally, continued me on Herceptin. Next echo was approx. 56! Tired as can be but test score is showing improvement. I am beginning to feel a bit puzzled.

Friday I had another echocardiogram. Was feeling quite tired from a hectic morning so decided not to chat with the tech, just to lay down and attempt to rest. Scored in the high 60s! I'm sure this will amaze my oncologist.

All I can suppose is that the heart is very sensitive to outside stimuli. Maybe we should all try and relax as much as possible when getting these tests (assuming, of course, that you want to continue on Herceptin). I suppose if I wanted off I could just say so, but I feel like that would be like pulling the plug on my life support system.

Start Tykerb soon due to treated brain metastasis.

ML

Jackie07 · 07-04-2008, 03:55 PM

Thank y'all for posting good results of 'recovered' Muga score. I was forced to quit Hercepting because of decreased heart function. Guess I really need to get on the exercises (been talking about it, but still haven't done it...) regardless if I will be resuming Herceptin.

mthomp2020 · 07-07-2008, 08:48 PM

First post here. I had my 4th MUGA a week ago. My first one was 67, then 65, 64, and this last one was 54, so a big drop in 3 months. I've noticed I've put back on some weight (I deliberately lost some weight - not chemo induced loss), and my blood pressure was very high when I had my Herceptin/Zometa tx today. We're doing another scan in 6 weeks and see what happens. I'll have been on Herceptin a year in September, with no side affects at all. I'm stage IV, so I've been enjoying only doing the Herceptin and Zometa rather then chemo - I'd like to keep doing that for a while longer.

Interesting what someone said about the timing of the MUGA scan, and how maybe stress can effect it. I was stuck 3 times to inject the binding agent, as the 1st 2 infiltrated, and twice for the isotope, the first of which infiltrated. I was just a little bit stressed after that one, to say the least! I was worried about them ruining the veins in my good arm/hand. Perhaps it was a contributing factor? Who knows. Just hoping my next scan isn't lower.

I've been a bit slack about exercise and diet for some reason this summer, so it's time to get motivating again, I guess.