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03-27-2008, 09:31 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,783
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having trouble finding words? Estrogen deprivation may be the culprit
Whether made prematurely menopausal by chemotherapy, whether already naturally menopausal, whether taking AIs or other antihormonals...effect of replacing estrogen (inadvisable in ER+ breast cancer, probably also in ER- bc as hormonal status can change) seems to be different depending on age when given:
Horm Behav. 2008 Jan;53(1):159-69. Epub 2007 Oct 26. Links
Estradiol interacts with the cholinergic system to affect verbal memory in postmenopausal women: evidence for the critical period hypothesis.
Dumas J, Hancur-Bucci C, Naylor M, Sites C, Newhouse P.
Clinical Neuroscience Research Unit, Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont College of Medicine, 1 South Prospect St., Burlington, VT 05401, USA.
Estradiol has been shown to interact with the cholinergic system to affect cognition in postmenopausal women. This study further investigated the interaction of estradiol and cholinergic system functioning on verbal memory and attention in two groups of healthy younger (ages 50-62) and older (ages 70-81) postmenopausal women. Twenty-two postmenopausal women were randomly and blindly placed on 1 mg of 17-beta estradiol orally for 1 month then 2 mg for 2 months or matching placebo pills after which they participated in three anticholinergic challenge sessions when verbal memory and attention were assessed. Subjects were administered either the antimuscarinic drug scopolamine (SCOP), the antinicotinic drug mecamylamine (MECA), or placebo. After the first challenge phase, they were crossed over to the other hormone treatment for another 3 months and repeated the challenges. Results showed that estradiol pretreatment significantly attenuated the anticholinergic drug-induced impairments on a test of episodic memory (the Buschke Selective Reminding Task) for the younger group only, while estradiol treatment impaired performance of the older group. The results suggest that younger subjects may experience more cholinergic benefit from estradiol treatment than older subjects, supporting the concept of a critical period for postmenopausal estrogen use.
PMID: 17964576 [PubMed - in process]
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03-27-2008, 11:49 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,519
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I can't find the words to thank you for posting this Lani. LOL
__________________
Brenda
NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)
Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~ Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~ Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~ micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~ micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg
Apr'07~ MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~ Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~ MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~ MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~ PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~ scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~ MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~ dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~ Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~ new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~ new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~ 25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.
"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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03-27-2008, 05:30 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 2,267
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Good one, hutch!
Words, especially names, usually come to me in a delayed reaction type presentation.
__________________
Rhonda (Sassy)
dx age 45
DX 2/15/05 Stage IIb (at surgery)restaged IIIa
Left mast .9cm tumor 5 of 14 nodes
Triple Positive
4 DD A/C
12 Taxol/Herceptin
33Rads
Strange infect mast site one year aft surg, hosp 1 wk
Herceptin for total of 18 months
Lupron Monthly 4 yrs
Neurontin for aches, pains and hot flashes(It works!)
Ovaries removed 11/09 stop Lupron and Neurontin
Arimidex 6 yrs (tried Femara, no SE improvement)
Tried Exemestane-hips got so bad could hardly walk
Back to Arimidex for year seven
Zometa 2X Annual for 7years, Lasix
Stop Arimidex 5/13
Stop Zometa 7/13-Bi-lateral Stress Fractures in Femurs from Zometa
5/14 Start Tamoxifen
3/15 Stem cell transplant to stimulate femur bone growth/healing
5/15 Complete fracture of right femur/Titanium rods both femurs
9/16 Start Evista stopTamoxifen
3/17 Stop Evista--unwelcome side effects!
NED and no meds.......
14 YEARS NED!
Last edited by sassy; 03-30-2008 at 04:03 PM..
Reason: added comment
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03-30-2008, 07:11 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 221
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So shouldn't this be taken into consideration when studying chemobrain?
I do not fully understand this study and why they gave people scopolamine. But I think that they're saying that the younger group benefited from the addition of estrogen while the older group did not, as it related to cognitive function. So it might be the same for deprivation - more consequences for those who are perimenopausal? And if that's true, then don't you think that they should be considering AI use to be a confounder when they study chemobrain? And don't you wish that they'd mention these questions to women considering taking an AI? Especially those women for whom an AI offers only a small increased benefit?
Debbie Laxague
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