HELP for RBC count

[TSund]

Can anyone suggest supplements, herbs, or complimentary medicine that will help low RBC and possibly keep Ruth from the RBC booster? She just had her 3rd TCH treatment and RBC is preciptously low.

I had such splendid help from folk with the WBC problem, (Ruth has been taking astragalus and reishi with good results - no neulasta needed through 3 treatments) and hope you can help here as well.

I've searched the threads, but there's not as much evident here. May try melatonin. I'm a bit confused on the zinc creme...I thought that was for WBC?



THANK-YOU!!!

TRS

My doctors suggested I eat plenty of liver (even liverwurst was suggested) and lots of green stuff, like spinach. If I remember correctly I asked this question of the board and got lots of good advice. I can check or you can check my early threads to see what the answers were.

And for sure you'll get a lot more responses.

[RhondaH]

and it WORKS!!!! Did for me so that I could avoid a blood transfusion AND Procrit Also, eggs, fish, meat, leafy vegetables, whole grains. May be reduced by aspirin, ibuprofen and naproxen. Vitamin C (as Becky says) enhances uptake (taken from the 2007 supplement list from Taste for Life). Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[Becky]

When you eat the greens (spinach, chard, any dark green leafy vegetable), make sure you also have a source of Vitamin C at the same time. It is hard to absorb iron and drinking orange juice at the meal or sprinkling lemon juice on it helps alot. Also, as far as the animal sources go (as well as the veggie sources) - DO NOT consume calcium/dairy at the same time. Make sure Ruth waits several hours before consuming dairy as calcium and iron compete for absorption in the body and calcium is preferentially absorbed over iron (ie: eat in the kosher manner). This way, both of these important minerals are absorbed.

Have Ruth take a small walk every day. This helps too - but not to any point of exhaustion.

Last but not least, iron supplements can work wonders too. There is an over the counter product called Slow FE that works well and causes minimal constipation (a problem with most iron supplements).

Take care and give Ruth a hug from me.

[TSund]

Thank-you, we will take all the help we can get. She's been doing the liver some, will have to encourage more! I wonder if there's any Chinese herbs; the astragalus and reishi seemed very effectve.

TRS

[Gina]

Just wanted to add these three to build up the RBC's. Swear by them. A new one I just tested is FAB...have you seen the DARK Chocolate Raisonettes?? Really Yummy, really effective way to boost RBC and increase your magnesium and antioxidants at the same time.

Haven't heard from you in a while. Glad the mushroom tincture is working. Keep using the zinc on the feet for good energy and to support the lymph system.

Best of luck,

Gina

[TSund]

THanks all! I am wondering; is the zinc creme for the WBC or the RBC??

Also, I read that B6, B12 is essential for RBC. Thoughts?

Terri

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

My onc tells me that chemo-induced anemia (which is what he writes on my chart) is not the same as the anemia that requires iron. My iron has been checked and is normal.

B-12, folic acid, magnesium, grapeseed extract, carnitine and Completely Green's Phyto Formula (which has beet powder and all kinds of great nutrients you may not be able to digest, like me, but that boost my chronic fatigue to above normal zest!) -- all help BOOST RED BLOOD CELL COUNTS. My supplement list (from one of my NY oncs) is in the thread TO "SUPPLEMENT" OR WAIT for those who are interested...

If I can be of further help, please don't hesitate to ask. I am happiest when I can help and/or inspire another. Love all my sweet Soul Sisters... ANDI

[TSund]

Hi Andi,


Can't find Completely Green's Phyto Formula when I google it. What's the brand?



THX

TRS

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Terri,

This Completely Green PHYTO FORMULA is manufactured by Metabolic Maintenance Products exclusively, distributed by Completely Green, Inc.

Call toll free 866 - 476 - 4733 and have it shipped directly. Best price I could find. Takes a month to kick in, but wow, when it does -- I am a changed person!

Hope Ruth enjoys this in every sense of the word. Little scooper buried in the bottle. Take 1 level scoop in 8 oz of OJ a day. Tastes like OJ. Looks a bit foreboding, but yummy all the same. No texture detected. And my HGB is moving up along with major energy surges. I call it my MAGIC POWDER.

I also am taking NADH -- 5mg -- 1AM+1PM. It's a co-enzyme. I get it from Vitahealth. If you can't find it, I'll go look and find that phone # too. Started the 2 new supplements almost 2 mnths ago and am elated!

All these are recommended by Dr. Gaynor, my onc/supplement/integrative oncology guru whom I adore! What a gem of a man. A healer. In to meditation, guided imagery big time, plus of course the conventional and cutting edge tx.

Good luck.

ANDI

[TSund]

Andi,

Is there a website that describes this product and has the ingredients? I usually can google anything, but cannot find. Must be doing something wrong in my search. I'd like to look b4 I buy. Ruth is highly ER+, don't know if any of the ingredients have an impact.

THX

TRS

[MJo]

My rbc went way down with A/C. I bought liver at a health food store that sells meat. I was leery about liver from the supermarket. It didn't cost much more.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Terri,

Completely Green, Inc. apparently doesn't have a website, but I called the # on the bottle -- 866 - 476 - 4733 -- and they gave me the # for customer service (Mon-Fri 9-5 EST) -- 717 - 332 - 2200 + they gave me an email address for questions -- info@completelygreen.com

I know Dr. Gaynor believes the only form of soy bc patients should consume is natural or POWDER! That's his rule. I can't swear re ER/PR+, but this is what he has told me emphatically.

There is soy lecithin (oil-free) powder in THE PHYTO FORMULA and I haven't googled "lechithin" among many fruits and vegetables in powder form, spirulina, barley grass, tomato, grape seed extract, wheat grass, red raspberry, chlorella (cracked cells), parsley, beet, organic g=flaxseed meal, alfalfa, royal jelly, horsetail herb, cranberry, blueberry, citrus biflavonoids, broccoli, bee pollen, acerola berry, etc. -- all in powder form. Total net weight 180g, which is about a month's worth, around $40 ordering direct ($10 off retail).

Good luck Ruth. Stay close Terri. Healing energy being sent your way... ANDI

[dhealey]

Terri/Ruth, When I was on Taxol my HGB got as low as 7. They wanted to give me a transfussion which I refused. I got Anaresep every other week and still my counts were low. My Oncologist suggested taking Ferrous Sulfate 325 mg twice a day. This helped get my counts up to 9. They never were normal until a month after I finished my chemo. If your not feeling that fatiqued I would ask about the Ferrous Sulfate as an iron booster.
Debbie in North Carolina

[mke]

Those Popeye cartoons have a drop of truth in them.

I had two hospital stays and 4 transfusions due to low RBC while doing neoadjuvant chemo. To gear up for surgery I ate liver (fortunately I like fried liver and onions), spinach salads, kale, and some concoction recommended by a Chinese friend. That was quite tasty, it was a broth made from simmering beef bones, carrots, onions, those big white radishes, some herb (? something quai), and some bok choi at the end. We made a big pot of it and froze it in servings. I quite liked it.

Surgery was a breeze and my recovery was uneventful.

[TSund]

Thank-you all for your input and messages. This has me really shook at many levels, even more so the more I think about it. I am disappointed, worried, frustrated, and generally p'd off. I will have this conversation the next time with the onc. (Something else to fret about)

ON another note, I leave for Korea for two weeks tomorrow night (giving classes and playing concerts)I thank-you all for your input and I pray that #1) Ruth will be fine and that this will have no detrimental effects #2) I can let go enough to play some decent concerts and focus. I am sorry that I do not have time to answer those that were kind enough to answer individually. Please know that I am as always grateful.

Sincerely,

Terri

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Terri,

I sense your frustration and your rage BIG TIME. It is great that you are on top of this and keeping yourself well-informed and proactive. But -- can you manage that without hyper-ventilating? I don't mean to be flip. Not at all! These are anxious times you're going through. We all know that too well! But your anxiety is surely felt by Ruth, which has to be alarming to her. She needs to be enveloped in a peaceful, positive atmosphere.

My spouse, Paul, was just like you. However, he asked questions couched in a calmness. Super informed and questioning left and right, and yet, with a soft, friendly, *team-like* involvement. The doc, Paul and I worked together. As a group effort. Putting our heads together. Not antagonistic, which I am picking up from you. I understand it is coming from a place of fear, which is quite natural. I am only suggesting you let up a little.

I have bee receiving Procrit, and Aranesp, over the last 9 yrs, as my HGB drops, as does my energy level (being on Herceptin, which I believe is keeping me alive and holding mets at bay). I get regular ECHOs and am holding my own. I USED to get the Procrit if I was under 12.4. Then time changed, and we switched to under 12. NOW, as insur co's won't pay the exorbitant price ($7,000 an injection today vs $800-$1200 for a long while). Medical facilities kept upping the price as many insur co's weren't covering enough. (Mine usually did.)

NEW Cancer Center rules -- you have to be under 11. At least for NON CHEMO PATIENTS, which is in actuality what I am. I was 11.3 and feeling like I was crawling. I know a few days after the injection I feel peppy again, thank God. QOL is a big factor. I was asking FOR the injection. No. You can't get it (because of above new rules). I pushed. They checked my chart. (My onc was out of town.) They found a notation that stated that IF NEEDED, I WAS TO GET 300 ARANESP. Still, they checked w/the pharmacist who recited the new rules. I asked them to call my insur co. I was calm on the outside, but outraged on the inside that I had to beg for assistance, per my personal experience. They sent someone to have someone in whatever dept (?accounting) call my insur co. They got through, discussed back and forth, as I waited, in the dark so to speak. Finally someone returned to say they apprvd a *half dosage*. I said good. They said ok. The half dosage was just as good (150) as the full dosage, in lifting my energy up to functioning, not a struggle to get dressed in the AM. I remained adamant, determined, gently aggressive and in control. I wanted to scream. I wanted to cry. I felt so frustrated. My husband was unsure if I should get the injection, fearful of the *studies*. Again, I was going on 9 yrs of *personal experience*. MY EF has been okay w/ea ECHO. *Others* this is not true. *I* felt like a wreak w/Taxotere, BUT it annihilated every one of my met liver tumors into nothingness, so I'm good with that. *Some* had not too bad a time w/Taxotere. Some can be 7 something (HGB) and walk pretty perkily. I can't. Every person, every *body*, every cancer (and all its infinitesimal fine points) is DIFFERENT. Cancer never read a book. There are no hard and fast rules. There are no simple answers. At every turn is yet another conundrum. Another exasperating issue to muddle through. Another surprise! Unforeseen matters abound. Disappointment is unavoidable. So -- Terri -- be prepared to remain on your toes, and to try as best you can to be aggressive and yet full of grace. It is possible. It will help YOU *not* make yourself sick over worrying and feeling frustrated and stressed out. And it will help Ruth HEAL and thrive in the best of atmospheres. Your love is apparent. Let that force work for you and for Ruth. I guess that's my point w/relating my experience above. Paul got everything done, with the docs, the nurses, the insur co's, without making himself crazy (and me too in the process). Occasionally, when I'd hear him on the phone in the other room (as I lay in stupor mid chemo) and I realized it was a half an hour and he kept repeating the same, SENSIBLE thing to the person with the sense of a penny on the other end of the phone, and then I heard him raise his voice -- which he doesn't do in such matters USUALLY, I would drag myself out of bed and go to his office across the hall. I'd see him turning red in the face, so enraged, uncommonly so, and *rightly* so. I'd say to him, PLEASE, PAUL, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE YOURSELF SICK. I NEED YOU TO BE WELL. And he'd calm down. He'd see what was occurring. He *got* that he was spiraling out of control and he would excuse himself from the ongoing conversation. We learned that if he called the insur co right back, maybe waited five minutes, he'd get to speak to ANOTHER person. And, usually, THAT person immediately saw the problem he was calling about and rectified it. So if one route is blocked -- we learned to take another.

If you are forever p'd off, even if that is unspoken, it is a clear message being sent, I assure you. Wishing Ruth and YOU an easy time. Make your way through the process, the surgery, the treatments and the healing. Be a part of each step of the way, doing your best at every turn. I wish you well, as I wish all my Soul Sisters and each of their loved ones fighting for them, and going through this ordeal totally with them. I honor all!
Andi

[harrie]

My RBC dropped while on TCH. Managed all 6 rounds with maybe Procrit twice. After my 6th round, my RBC just came up on its own. I didn't think it was anything significant I had to worry about, just par for the course with my taxotere. The dropping of the WBC was more of a concern to me.
I am almost 3 months post my last round of chemo and I feel absolutely great.
Maryanne