HonCode

Go Back   HER2 Support Group Forums > her2group
Register Gallery FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-03-2006, 09:13 AM   #1
sarah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: france
Posts: 1,648
omega 2, 6, 9 ?

R.B. are you there? what is omega 9? I see a lot of supplements now come with all 3 together. Having read your other posts, if I'm correct, one doesn't really need to add 6 because we get enough but not enough 3 but what about 9?
just curious
thanks
sarah
sarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 11:39 AM   #2
chrisy
Senior Member
 
chrisy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central Coast, CA
Posts: 3,207
R.B. or Becky correct me if I'm wrong!

Only R.B. knows for sure...but I think Omega 9 is oleic acid. This is in olive oil and I think flaxseed oil and has been identified as a down-regulator of Her2. So it is, I would think, a good thing.

The Omega oils and balance is pretty complex. My understanding is 3 and 9, good. 6, maybe not inherently bad but should be a much lower component so for most Americans, we have too much. We should replace 6's with 3's or 9's.
__________________
Chris in Scotts Valley
June 2002 extensive hi grade DCIS (pre-cancer-stage 0, clean sentinal node) Mastectomy/implant - no chemo, rads. "cured?"
9/2004 Diag: Stage IV extensive liver mets (!) ER/PR- Her2+++
10/04-3/05 Weekly Taxol/Carboplatin/Herceptin , complete response!
04/05 - 4/07 Herception every 3 wks, Continue NED
04/07 - recurrence to liver - 2 spots, starting tykerb/avastin trial
06/07 8/07 10/07 Scans show stable, continue on Tykerb/Avastin
01/08 Progression in liver
02/08 Begin (TDM1) trial
08/08 NED! It's Working! Continue on TDM1
02/09 Continue NED
02/10 Continue NED. 5/10 9/10 Scans NED 10/10 Scans NED
12/10 Scans not clear....4/11 Scans suggest progression 6/11 progression confirmed in liver
07/11 - 11/11 Herceptin/Xeloda -not working:(
12/11 Begin MM302 Phase I trial - bust:(
03/12 3rd times the charm? AKT trial

5/12 Scan shows reduction! 7/12 More reduction!!!!
8/12 Whoops...progression...trying for Perjeta/Herceptin (plus some more nasty chemo!)
9/12 Start Perjeta/Herceptin, chemo on hold due to infection/wound in leg, added on cycle 2 &3
11/12 Poops! progression in liver, Stop Perjeta/Taxo/Herc
11/12 Navelbine/Herce[ptin - try for a 3 cycles, no go.
2/13 Gemzar/Carbo/Herceptin - no go.
3/13 TACE procedure
chrisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 04:01 PM   #3
R.B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,843
Thank you for the compliment, but there is a great deal I do not know as I have only been reading about this for a year or so. Fats and the body is such a huge subject many lives would not be enough.

I have to go and refresh my memory and more so because I have been diverted for a while.

Omega nine is the name of a family of fats. As are omega three and six.

It means the first double bond in the carbon chain is a position nine along the string, omega three three along etc. So if you have a long carbon chain you can have more double bonds after postion nine, and provided the first is at postion nine it will be an omega nine. Oleic acid for example has eighteen carbons in a chain. The body has some flexibility and will substitute one for another in certain circumstances but works best at its design paramaters which is likely a more or less balance of omega three and six.

Oleic is the most basic in the family, and often referred to as omega nine, but is only one of the family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleic_acid


3-6-9

As usual it is complex but as a general rule most people are getting too much omega six.

Omega nine can be made by the body assuming the fats pathways are working properly. The function of the pathways that make fats are very complex. There can be competition for resources or conflicts in instruction sets, and taking omega nine could I suppose cause rebalancing of the pathways. Omega nines are found in olive oil (virgin is best as lower in six). Taking in limited quantities saves the body making it and has other benifits due to other "chemical" content of olive oil.

The one that is likely for most people to be lacking is omega three both the mother fat linolenic acid 18:3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-linolenic_acid, and the longer chain fats of the same family EPA and DHA. The body can make these from the mother fats, but lots of things stop this happening, mineral deficiency, high sugar intake etc. So the best "insurance" is to eat foods that contain long chain omega threes - the best source is oily fish or fish oil and there are some vegetarian equivalents. A trial suggested take up by the body tapers off at about 2 grams DHA a day 5tps of a good quality fish oil.

GLA can help for some but comes usually with high six.

Many nuts are also high in six.

The essence is to eat only the best quality oil sources you can, try and balance the omega threes and sixes as a key target. This will involve assiduos label reading, and asking eg "olives in oil" (olive oil ? no sunflower mostly). This site give you an idea as to fat content, and make up of foods.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20AC.html

So there are no absolute answers, but as a very general rule six is the most difficult one to control, and if a choice fish oil would be top of my list, plus .

On the nines the body can make, but taking in moderation would save the body making it - but you will see fish oil contains a wide range of oils including 18:1 which may include some omega nine 18:1. http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20AC.html
But for cooking it is more stable than polyunsaturates. In general as wide a variety as possible is also good but watch those sixes very carfully they lurk everywhere in processed foods.

Please do talk to your doctor about dietary change - side effects of fish oil are limited but are an issue for some - blood thinning etc, some issue fro some diabetics etc. fats are much more powerful influences than realised.

I am afraid there are no absolute answers. My own experience is that your body sort of tells you what it wants if you give it access. When I started on this road and cut down on omega sixes but did not take fish oil I had a nut craving. When I started taking fish oil that calmed and I had to get my fish oil. Now after about nine months my need to head to the fish oil bottle has moderated,and my fat intake and "craving" has declined. I pass a packet of crisps which used to be a favourite ("hand cooked") and do not even think about them writing this has remined me of that.


I hope that helps.

RB




ABSTRACT wikipedia



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-9_fatty_acid


Omega-9 fatty acid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Types of Fats in Food

* Unsaturated fat
o Monounsaturated fat
o Polyunsaturated fat
o Trans fat
o Omega: 3, 6, 9
* Saturated fat

See Also

* Fatty acid
* Essential fatty acid

Omega-9 fatty acids are a class of unsaturated fatty acids which have a C=C double bond in the ω-9 position. (See Nomenclature for terms and discussion of ω (omega) nomenclature.) Some ω-9's are common components of animal fat and vegetable oil.

Two commercially important ω-9 fatty acids are:

* Oleic acid (18:1 ω-9) which is a main component of olive oil and other monounsaturated fats.
* Erucic acid (22:1 ω-9) which is found in rapeseed, wallflower seed, and mustard seed. Rapeseed with high erucic acid content is grown for commercial use in paintings and coatings as a drying oil.

Unlike ω-3 and ω-6 fatty acids, ω-9 fatty acids are not classed as essential fatty acids (EFA). This is both because they can be created by the human body from unsaturated fat and are therefore not essential in the diet, and because the lack of an ω-6 double bond keeps them from participating in the reactions that form the eicosanoids.

Under severe conditions of EFA deprivation, mammals will elongate and desaturate oleic acid to make mead acid, (20:3 ω-9). (Lipomics) This also occurs to a lesser extent in vegetarians and semi-vegetarians. (Phinney, 1990)
R.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 05:33 PM   #4
heblaj01
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 543
To the extensive info supplied by RB on various fats I would like to add this point on the different mode of absorption of of Omega-3 & Omega-6&-9 fats.

Omega-6 &-9 being part of the family of fats called Medium Chain Fatty Acids (MCFA) are absorbed quickly & directly from gut to liver.

Omega-3's are part of Long Chain Fatty Acids (LCFA) whose absorption is more complex & involves enzymes such as lipase as well as bile. While these fats may not be so easily absorbed they are not going initially to the liver but circulate through the the lymphatic system.
As a result they tend to have a wider body distribution & to stay longer in the body before being metabolized or degraded in the liver.
This may explain in part the effectiveness of Omega-3's as anti-inflammation supplements & in mice as actve agents in regressing metastatic lymph nodes.

As RB noted none of the usual sources of Omega-3 or 6 or 9 are pure.
They are mixtures with a preponderance of one (GLA sources are an exception with less than 50% content).
There are now available two pure sources of the Omega-3's : pure EPA & pure DHA. However I am not aware of research studies combining these two pure supplements as in the numerous studies dealing with Omega-3 fish oil (which may contain up to 60% of combined EPA/DHA).
So their combined efficacy still needs to be demonstrated.
heblaj01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2006, 01:16 AM   #5
sarah
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: france
Posts: 1,648
thanks

Thank you all for your helpful replies. I think I'll just stick to adding omega 3. I'm a triple positive.
Isn't this a great site! We can all live so far away from one another but it feels like a close, friendly community.
sarah
sarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2006, 11:21 AM   #6
R.B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,843
Please also keep in mind the arguments for need to balance the omega threes and sixes, which also means keeping an eye on omega six intake.

RB
R.B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright HER2 Support Group 2007 - 2021
free webpage hit counter