HELP for RBC count

TSund · 07-13-2007, 09:59 PM

Can anyone suggest supplements, herbs, or complimentary medicine that will help low RBC and possibly keep Ruth from the RBC booster? She just had her 3rd TCH treatment and RBC is preciptously low.

I had such splendid help from folk with the WBC problem, (Ruth has been taking astragalus and reishi with good results - no neulasta needed through 3 treatments) and hope you can help here as well.

I've searched the threads, but there's not as much evident here. May try melatonin. I'm a bit confused on the zinc creme...I thought that was for WBC?

THANK-YOU!!!

TRS

07-13-2007, 10:43 PM

My doctors suggested I eat plenty of liver (even liverwurst was suggested) and lots of green stuff, like spinach. If I remember correctly I asked this question of the board and got lots of good advice. I can check or you can check my early threads to see what the answers were.

And for sure you'll get a lot more responses.

RhondaH · 07-14-2007, 06:59 AM

and it WORKS!!!! Did for me so that I could avoid a blood transfusion AND Procrit

Also, eggs, fish, meat, leafy vegetables, whole grains. May be reduced by aspirin, ibuprofen and naproxen. Vitamin C (as Becky says) enhances uptake (taken from the 2007 supplement list from Taste for Life). Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

Becky · 07-14-2007, 07:23 AM

When you eat the greens (spinach, chard, any dark green leafy vegetable), make sure you also have a source of Vitamin C at the same time. It is hard to absorb iron and drinking orange juice at the meal or sprinkling lemon juice on it helps alot. Also, as far as the animal sources go (as well as the veggie sources) - DO NOT consume calcium/dairy at the same time. Make sure Ruth waits several hours before consuming dairy as calcium and iron compete for absorption in the body and calcium is preferentially absorbed over iron (ie: eat in the kosher manner). This way, both of these important minerals are absorbed.

Have Ruth take a small walk every day. This helps too - but not to any point of exhaustion.

Last but not least, iron supplements can work wonders too. There is an over the counter product called Slow FE that works well and causes minimal constipation (a problem with most iron supplements).

Take care and give Ruth a hug from me.

TSund · 07-14-2007, 01:37 PM

Thank-you, we will take all the help we can get. She's been doing the liver some, will have to encourage more! I wonder if there's any Chinese herbs; the astragalus and reishi seemed very effectve.

TRS

Gina · 07-15-2007, 09:43 PM

Just wanted to add these three to build up the RBC's. Swear by them. A new one I just tested is FAB...have you seen the DARK Chocolate Raisonettes?? Really Yummy, really effective way to boost RBC and increase your magnesium and antioxidants at the same time.

Haven't heard from you in a while. Glad the mushroom tincture is working. Keep using the zinc on the feet for good energy and to support the lymph system.

Best of luck,

Gina

TSund · 07-16-2007, 09:09 AM

THanks all! I am wondering; is the zinc creme for the WBC or the RBC??

Also, I read that B6, B12 is essential for RBC. Thoughts?

Terri

Andrea Barnett Budin · 07-16-2007, 05:07 PM

My onc tells me that chemo-induced anemia (which is what he writes on my chart) is not the same as the anemia that requires iron. My iron has been checked and is normal.

B-12, folic acid, magnesium, grapeseed extract, carnitine and Completely Green's Phyto Formula (which has beet powder and all kinds of great nutrients you may not be able to digest, like me, but that boost my chronic fatigue to above normal zest!) -- all help BOOST RED BLOOD CELL COUNTS. My supplement list (from one of my NY oncs) is in the thread TO "SUPPLEMENT" OR WAIT for those who are interested...

If I can be of further help, please don't hesitate to ask. I am happiest when I can help and/or inspire another. Love all my sweet Soul Sisters... ANDI

TSund · 07-16-2007, 09:51 PM

Hi Andi,

Can't find Completely Green's Phyto Formula when I google it. What's the brand?

THX

TRS

Andrea Barnett Budin · 07-17-2007, 10:12 AM

Terri,

This Completely Green PHYTO FORMULA is manufactured by Metabolic Maintenance Products exclusively, distributed by Completely Green, Inc.

Call toll free 866 - 476 - 4733 and have it shipped directly. Best price I could find. Takes a month to kick in, but wow, when it does -- I am a changed person!

Hope Ruth enjoys this in every sense of the word. Little scooper buried in the bottle. Take 1 level scoop in 8 oz of OJ a day. Tastes like OJ. Looks a bit foreboding, but yummy all the same. No texture detected. And my HGB is moving up along with major energy surges. I call it my MAGIC POWDER.

I also am taking NADH -- 5mg -- 1AM+1PM. It's a co-enzyme. I get it from Vitahealth. If you can't find it, I'll go look and find that phone # too. Started the 2 new supplements almost 2 mnths ago and am elated!

All these are recommended by Dr. Gaynor, my onc/supplement/integrative oncology guru whom I adore! What a gem of a man. A healer. In to meditation, guided imagery big time, plus of course the conventional and cutting edge tx.

Good luck.

ANDI

TSund · 07-18-2007, 12:05 PM

Andi,

Is there a website that describes this product and has the ingredients? I usually can google anything, but cannot find. Must be doing something wrong in my search. I'd like to look b4 I buy. Ruth is highly ER+, don't know if any of the ingredients have an impact.

THX

TRS

MJo · 07-18-2007, 01:59 PM

My rbc went way down with A/C. I bought liver at a health food store that sells meat. I was leery about liver from the supermarket. It didn't cost much more.

Andrea Barnett Budin · 07-18-2007, 02:42 PM

Terri,

Completely Green, Inc. apparently doesn't have a website, but I called the # on the bottle -- 866 - 476 - 4733 -- and they gave me the # for customer service (Mon-Fri 9-5 EST) -- 717 - 332 - 2200 + they gave me an email address for questions -- info@completelygreen.com

I know Dr. Gaynor believes the only form of soy bc patients should consume is natural or POWDER! That's his rule. I can't swear re ER/PR+, but this is what he has told me emphatically.

There is soy lecithin (oil-free) powder in THE PHYTO FORMULA and I haven't googled "lechithin" among many fruits and vegetables in powder form, spirulina, barley grass, tomato, grape seed extract, wheat grass, red raspberry, chlorella (cracked cells), parsley, beet, organic g=flaxseed meal, alfalfa, royal jelly, horsetail herb, cranberry, blueberry, citrus biflavonoids, broccoli, bee pollen, acerola berry, etc. -- all in powder form. Total net weight 180g, which is about a month's worth, around $40 ordering direct ($10 off retail).

Good luck Ruth. Stay close Terri. Healing energy being sent your way... ANDI

Gina · 07-20-2007, 06:27 PM

from my reading, the zinc supports many elements of the immune system (and lots of other metabolic systems in the body), so it is really hard to say RBC versus WBC, but you can see the increase in the lymphs on the CBC after using the 40% zinc oxide on the feet regularly...sometimes the number will go up by 3 points within only 24 hours...I have actually measured this one IN HOSPITALS...fyi.

I have not noticed the zinc to boost the RBC's but I have noticed liver/red meat of almost any kind, beets, raisons, purple grape juice, things like this to cause the RBC's to come back up.

Good luck with things,
Gina

Andrea Barnett Budin · 07-20-2007, 06:36 PM

Thanks, Gina. Some very interesting info. Will give it all serious thought.

Each of our bodies reacts so differently to meds and such. We are each individuals. I will follow up and check out your suggestions re my body, w/CBC ev 3 wks it is fairly simple to chart.

With love,
ANDI

TSund · 08-03-2007, 11:30 AM

Help! We just went to the onc pre-4th treatment, thought blood counts were going to be fine, but they did not come back before the onc finished appt and AFTER nurse told us dr recommends arnesp based on lowering rbc. Ruth is at 11.3 Should we really treat at that level?

I'm nervous about what I've read about RB boosters not being positive for tumor effect. I've read here that sometimes people have denied the WBC booster, do some folks go without on the RBC also?

Ruth's not super fatigued so I'm wondering if really necessary.

PLease input ASAP. (I'm on the laptop at the hospital.)

THX

Terri

TSund · 08-03-2007, 12:04 PM

Help! We just went to the onc pre-4th treatment, thought blood counts were going to be fine, but they did not come back before the onc finished appt and AFTER nurse told us dr recommends arnesp based on lowering rbc. Ruth is at 11.3 Should we really treat at that level?

I'm nervous about what I've read about RB boosters not being positive for tumor effect. I've read here that sometimes people have denied the WBC booster, do some folks go without on the RBC also?

Ruth's not super fatigued so I'm wondering if really necessary.

PLease input ASAP. (I'm on the laptop at the hospital.)

THX

Terri

RhondaH · 08-03-2007, 12:20 PM

I PERSONALLY wouldn't. I was in the hospital for 8.6 and they wanted to give me a transfusion ( I refused), and when I got out and they wanted to give me aronesp, I was almost to 12 (normal) so I would fight it. Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

StephN · 08-03-2007, 12:50 PM

I have a bit different take on the situation.
If Ruth's counts are sliding, they will continue to slide with each treatment. This is why they want to take the step of giving her the booster (which takes a couple of days to kick in, which is about the time the worst effects of the current treatment hit).

The doc does not know for certain what will happen in the next few days, but feels that there is a high chance that she could be come too anemic to get the next treatment on time.
You know that if your blood counts are too low you may have to put off a a treatment until the labs come back in line.

A hospital stay with low blood counts is not advised due to the vulnerability of the patient and the really BAD bugs that are rampant in hospitals.

AlaskaAngel · 08-03-2007, 01:45 PM

Terri/Ruth,

I stand somewhere between Rhonda and StephN.

If this IS Ruth's last chemo (?) and so she is not looking at having to try to get her counts back up again in time for the next one down the road you may have more room to consider avoiding using the Aranesp.

If it were a choice between a blood transfusion or Aranesp, then the need has to be addressed one way or the other. Does the onc tend to use a lower trigger value before resorting to a blood transfusion if the Aranesp is refused?

It is possible the onc may not actually have a strong preference for the Aranesp at this point. I'd tend to want to see if I could negotiate, especially if this IS her last chemo?

AlaskaAngel