suppliment confusion????

[penelope]

Alright... I know no one is a dr here, so with that out of the way, I am er/pr- her2+ what should I be taking.

I watch white flour and sugar, eat tons of high fiber like quinoa, veggies, legumes and brown rice. Use high quality olive oil. No beef. No hormones. And incidently I have done all the aforementioned for about 12 years, since I was 25!!! still got cancer....I think maybe I should have had a study diet of snickers bars and cigarettes and may be I would have dodged this bullet!!!!! LOL

My body has trouble with fish oil as my gall bladder has trouble with it. Any suggestions for omega 3?

What else should I take?

[Becky]

Good sources of omega 3 (high molecular weight) include salmon (wild is best), tuna, halibet and sardines. Small molecular weight includes flax and walnuts. Flax is touted to down regulate Her2 in many articles. All of these are good omega 3 sources.


Hope this helps.

[jhandley]

Hi
I take 20 ml flax oil mised with skim milk and milo (choc.drink powder) daily; in the afternoon/evening is better for my digestion. Good for her 2+ and synergistic with herceptin.
KInd regards
Jackie

[R.B.]

When you say fish oil do you mean fish oil or cod liver oil or a combination, and how long ago. There are a number of brands. Carlsons seems quite good.

Distillation has vastly improved, and the quality fish / combination oils are much more digestible non repeating etc. than they used to be. I stopped taking it years ago as it was so unpalatable and was pleasantly surprised when I resumed about two years ago.

There are a number of brands. Carlsons seems quite good.

There are some DHA EPA products derived from algae, but sadly they are a bit more expensive. Here is a link to google search DHA and vegetarian.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...tarian&spell=1

Flax seed or oil for the mother omega three, but which is a debated topic. You will find posts using the search button above.

Just out of interest did your previous diet include many sources of omega three in addition to greens etc. Have you always used olive oil. Did you ever regularly use other vegetable oils. Do you label watch for vegetable oils. What about margarines etc. I would be fascinated if you feel it appropriate to respond. A number of posters make the point that women had good diets and still got BC. I suspect some in this category (very fit very diet concious but unaware of the omega three six considerations) may have had diets skewed to a high proportion of omega six in their limited fat intake which may be a factor in lowering the ability of the body to resist.

Have you had children?. Babies in the womb will deplete a mothers supply quite aggressively.

Some have difficulty in making long chain omega threes. Some drugs may intervene in the manufacture of long chain fats, as they work in that area but I have not seen much research on it eg anti inflammatories, pain killers etc. Higher levels of fat intake it is suggested also disrupt the body's ability to make long chain omega threes and sixes etc.

Or of course all this could in your particular case be of no relevance as there was some other trigger or combination of factors but omega three is still good for hearts hair nails eyes etc.

RB

[RobinP]

I agree that omega threes fatty acids and olive oil are great for controlling inflammatory processes like Her2 bc. I usually eat salmon or cod fish two times a week to help fulfill my omega three requirement, put flaxseed oil on my salads, and use olive oil in cooking. In addition, my daily vitamin A tablets, which I use to help block the estrogen receptor, have the fish oils in it. I use vitamin D daily, as it may be helpful to help decrease breast cancer relapse. Additionally, I use turmeric/curry in my diet to which may help prevent lung mets. Finally, I take daily calcium for bone strength and health.

PS. I take the flaxseed, of course balanced with the omega threes, due to its positive lignan effect in altering tumor regulating factors and tumor growth. See link for flaxseed below.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...583&query_hl=5

[penelope]

I was using spectrum which is a high quality oil. It has anchovies mackrel and sardines, no cod.

As for flax seed is it advisable due to the estrogenic componet? This is largely why I have steered away even though I am er-.

[R.B.]

I am not an expert or doctor, and dietary change should be discussed with your advisor.

I looked up gall bladder and fats and here is the link.

http://www.gallbladderattack.com/gallbladder.shtml

If the problem you had was repeating why not try molecularly refined cod liver oil or fish oil instead and see if that helps. http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-The-...inest-Fish-Oil. Spectrum have a refined cod liver oil as does vitacost.

http://www.spectrumorganics.com/?id=210

Bottled oil is cheaper and reduces the risk that it could be damaged by the encapsulating process.


Re flaxseed

This is a heavily debated topic you might like to search on flax seed above click on search and enter flax seed.

Here is one link that might help.

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ight=flax+seed

and another which you might like to print out and show to your advisor

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...ight=flax+seed


RB

[RobinP]

Thanks, RB, for those links on flaxseed.

Penolope, I've read only positive reports of flaxseed reducing bc via lignans and helpful phytoestrogens. I know that my surgeon warned me to avoid soy due to the phytoestrogens and controversy over whether they are helpful or harmful to the estrogen receptor, and perhaps these same fears are associated with flaxseed. However, the negative stuff I have read or heard about flaxseed are threats without the research to back it. On the other side of the fence, there are acutal studies that back the positive impact of flaxseed, like the one I posted above...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...583&query_hl=5

. Please, if anyone has a study that does not support flaxseed, please share it with us.

http://www.flaxhealth.com/breastcancer.htm

Addendum

After a little more research, I found that the MSK cautions about the use of flaxseed for hormonal positives. See link below. Still, most of us here are hormonal negative, with her2 positive bc, so maybe flaxseed is okay for most of us.

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69220.cfm

PS. RB, you're right, this is a debatable topic.

[R.B.]

Re Flax seed

I have posted this before. Maybe you might want to see what your onc thinks.

The comment was provided by a person doing trials into flax seed.

RB


"There seems to be a lot of confusion on the website below. I will
attempt to answer some of the questions posted on this site: firstly,
flax oil does not contain any lignans as they do not dissolve in oil.
Lignans are present in every plant food that we eat only more
concentrated in flax and therefore commercially more viable to extract.
There is products available on the market that do deliver specific
quantities of flax lignans.

Lignans are phytoestrogens but they are very weak and only elicit a
very weak estrogenic response. The current research suggests that the
advantage of this is the body detects them as estrogens (which produce a
strong estrogenic response) and therefore produces less harmful
estrogens (homoeostatic process) though inhibition of the aromatase
enzymes, more SHBG to bind estrogens (for elimination from the body) and
increases the conversion of estrogens to the 2OHE metabolism pathway
over the 16OHE (by increasing CYP1A1 enzymes). This whole process has a
cyclic effect with the end result being less bioavailable estrogen
(harmful), increased 2OHE (protective), and decreased 16OHE (harmful)."

[R.B.]

Going back to the fabrication of long chain omega three and six in the body this is a useful summary and emphasises how sensitive the pathways to make long chain fats potentially are and how complicated it all is. D5D and D6D are steps in the process, manufacturing bottlenecks if you like

RB

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/tripping.html

Abstract


"Under optimum conditions, adults can make both DHA and EPA out of linolenic acid, the omega-3 essential fatty acid. But conditions are rarely optimal. Lack of many nutrients can inhibit the desaturating enzymes (D6D and D5D) that make this conversion, including deficiencies of protein, zinc, biotin, vitamin E, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12. Consumption of sugar, trans fatty acids and overconsumption of commercial vegetable oils, high in omega-6 fatty acids, also inhibits these enzymes. There is some evidence that an excess of oleic acid (found chiefly in olive oil and nuts) may inhibit prostaglandin production. On the other hand, saturated fats, especially lauric acid found in coconut oil, improve the body's production of DHA and EPA.

Diabetes, poor pituitary function and low thyroid function are synonymous with altered and inhibited D6D function. Other conditions caused by altered D6D function include alcoholism, premature aging, "high" cholesterol, Crohn's disease, cirrhosis of the liver, eczema, PMS, noncancerous breast disease, Sjogren's syndrome, scleroderma, ulcerative colitis and irritable bowel syndrome. In cancerous cells, all D6D activity is lost. These ailments absolutely require cod liver oil to provide pre-formed EPA and DHA. Supplements of evening primrose, borage or black currant oils are also important for these diseases, to facilitate the production of Series 1 and Series 2 prostaglandins."