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10-11-2011, 10:08 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,778
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OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries out!
Sorry to be so flip, but I wondered what kind of response this board might give to the following. Listen up tiptoe, even if you ARE a chinese hamster...whose ovaries have already been taken and used for deserving her2+ breast cancer patients:
Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2011 Oct 7. doi: 10.1111/j.1530-0277.2011.01654.x. [Epub ahead of print]
Alcohol Promotes Mammary Tumor Development via the Estrogen Pathway in Estrogen Receptor Alpha-Negative HER2/neu Mice.
Wong AW, Dunlap SM, Holcomb VB, Nunez NP.
Source
From the Institute for Cell and Molecular Biology (AWW, NPN), University of Texas, Austin, Texas; and Department of Nutritional Sciences (SMD, VBH, NPN), University of Texas, Austin, Texas.
Abstract
Background: Alcohol consumption is an established risk factor for breast cancer. Yet, the mechanism by which alcohol affects breast cancer development remains unresolved. The transition from the premenopausal to the postmenopausal phase is associated with a drastic reduction in systemic estrogen levels. It is not clear whether the risk of breast cancer attributable to alcohol consumption is modified by the different levels of estrogen found in pre- and postmenopausal women. The objective of this study is to determine whether the effects of alcohol on mammary tumor development are dependent on the presence of ovarian estrogen. Methods: As a model of breast cancer, we used mouse mammary tumor virus (MMTV)-neu transgenic mice that overexpress the human epidermal growth factor receptor 2 (HER2/neu) in the mammary epithelium, resulting in the development of estrogen receptor alpha (ERα)-negative mammary tumors. The mammary tumorigenesis process in these mice is similar to that of patients with HER2 breast cancer. Nonovariectomized (NOVX) and ovariectomized (OVX) MMTV-neu mice were exposed to 0, 5, and 20% ethanol in the drinking water. Breast cancer development and progression were determined alongside the effects of alcohol on estrogen availability and signaling. Results: Our data show that 20% alcohol consumption promoted tumor development in MMTV-neu mice only in the presence of ovarian hormones. Tumor promotion was associated with increased systemic estrogen levels, increased expression of aromatase (the rate-limiting enzyme in estrogen synthesis), and increased expression of ERα in the tumors of 20% alcohol-consuming MMTV-neu mice. Additionally, we show that ovariectomy (removal of the ovaries and ovarian hormone production) blocked the effects of 20% alcohol on tumor development. Conclusions: Our results support the notion that alcohol consumption promotes HER2 breast cancer development via the estrogen signaling pathway. Additionally, they suggest that the effects of alcohol on breast cancer may be prevented by blocking estrogen signaling.
Copyright © 2011 by the Research Society on Alcoholism.
PMID: 21981381 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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10-11-2011, 10:20 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South East Wisconsin
Posts: 3,431
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
They'll have to get the AI off label. I wonder if drunk mice become less inhibited.
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10-12-2011, 08:18 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,519
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
The gas that goes in my car is usually 10% ethanol, wonder if it's at risk at only 10%? I think it's a girl, I named her Betsy. I guess she is because she's really moody about once a month.
No surprise that researchers at University of Texas here in Ausdrunk are working on this...
__________________
Brenda
NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)
Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~ Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~ Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~ micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~ micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg
Apr'07~ MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~ Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~ MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~ MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~ PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~ scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~ MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~ dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~ Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~ new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~ new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~ 25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.
"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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10-13-2011, 02:17 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 434
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
I'm imagining chardonnay sipping mice discussing AIs and oopherectomy and deciding they were a small price to pay for the pleasures of the grape.
Trish
__________________
5/2004 (R) 30mm bre gr3 infiltrating ductal ca 16/18nodes er (2+) pr (3+) HER2 (3+)
6/2004 6 cycles(FEC), Oct 40 rads, Tamoxifen
5/2006 oopherectomy, Arimedex
12/2006 liver mets largest 9cm
1/2007 Herceptin,
3/2007 Taxol + Herc
1/2008 Herc alone
4/2008 Multiple bone mets,Zometa
7/2008 Herc + Gemcitabine
8/2008 Herc+Navelbine/vinoralbine
10/2008 Herc+Carboplatin+Taxol
12/2008 Tykerb+Xeloda
2/2010 Herceptin + trial drug
5/2010 Herceptin+Tykerb
8/2010 Tykerb+Abraxane
9/2010 Abraxane
12/2010 Abraxane+Tyk+Herc
4/2011 Tyk+Herc+Femara
6/2011 Liver and bone mets prog.Abraxane continue Herceptin,Tykerb,Femara and Zometa
8/2011 Probable liver progression and increased neuropathy. Xeloda with Tyk+Herc. Zometa 6 weekly.
9/2011 Liver progression,TM +++. Cyclophosphamide and Methotrexate metro Herc Zometa
10/2011 liver mets prog.Herc, 3 Tykerb +2mg decodron daily,Zometa
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10-13-2011, 06:41 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hershey, PA. Live The Sweet Life!
Posts: 2,005
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
Ok, confession time here....I've washed down my Femara with a swig of Merlot.
__________________
Smile On!
Laurel
Dx'd w/multifocal DCIS/IDS 3/08
7mm invasive component
Partial mast. 5/08
Stage 1b, ER 80%, PR 90%, HER-2 6.9 on FISH
0/5 nodes
4 AC, 4 TH finished 9/08
Herceptin every 3 weeks. Finished 7/09
Tamoxifen 10/08. Switched to Femara 8/09
Bilat SPM w/reconstruction 10/08
Clinical Trial w/Clondronate 12/08
Stopped Clondronate--too hard on my gizzard!
Switched back to Tamoxifen due to tendon pain from Femara
15 Years NED
I think I just might hang around awhile....
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10-13-2011, 09:14 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South East Wisconsin
Posts: 3,431
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
Laurel,
Coffee and Merlot..sheesh.
But I know it's in solidarity with the mice that give so much.
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10-14-2011, 07:56 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 1,607
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
I will have to ponder over a martini and comment later...
__________________
1996 cancer WTF?! 1.3 cm lumpectomy Er/Pr neg. Her2+ (20nodes NEGATIVE) did CMF + rads. NED.
2002 recurrence. Bilateral mastectomy w/TFL autologous recon. Then ACx2. Skin lymphatic rash. Taxotere w/Herceptin x4. Herceptin/Xeloda. Finally stops spreading.
2003 - Back to surgery, remove skin mets, and will have surgery one week later when pathology can confirm margins.
‘03 latisimus dorsi flap to remove skin mets. CLEAN MARGINS. Continue single agent Herceptin thru 4/04. NED.
‘04 '05 & 06 tiny recurrences - scar line. surgery to cut out. NED each time.
1/2006 Rads again, to scar line. NED.
3/07 Heartbreaking news - mets! lungs.sternum. Try Tykerb/Xeloda. Tykerb/Carbo/Gemzar. Switch Oncs.
12/07 Herceptin.Tykerb. Markers go stable.
2/8/08 gamma knife 13mm stupid brain met.
3/08 Herceptin/tykerb/avastin/zometa.
3/09 brain NED. Lungs STABLE.
4/09 attack sternum (10 daysPHOTONS.5 days ELECTRONS)
9/09 MARKERS normal!
3/10 PET/CT=manubrium intensely metabolically active but stable. NEDhead.
Wash out 5/10 for tdm1 but 6/10 CT STABLE, PET improving. Markers normal. Brain NED. Resume just Herceptin plus ZOMETA
Dec 2010 Brain NED, lungs/sternum stable. markers normal.
MAR 2011 stop Herceptin/allergy! Go back on Tykerb and switch to Xgeva.
May-Aug 2011 Tykerb Herceptin Xgeva.
Sept 2011 Tykerb, Herceptin, Zometa, Avastin.
April 2012 sketchy drug trial in NYC. 6 weeks later I’m NED!
OCT 2012 PET/CT shows a bunch of freakin’ progression. Back to LA and Herceptin.avastin.zometa.
12/20/12 add in PERJETA!
March 2013 – 5 YEARS POST continue HAPZ
APRIL 2013 - 6 yrs stage 4. "FAILED" PETscan on 4/2/13
May 2013: rePetted - improvement in lungs, left adrenal stable, right 6th rib inactive, (must be PERJETA avastin) sternum and L1 fruckin'worsen. Drop zometa. ADD Xgeva. Doc says get rads consultant for L1 and possible biopsy of L1. I say, no thanks, doc. Lets see what xgeva brings to the table first. It's summer.
June-August 2013HAPX Herceptin Avastin Perjeta xgeva.
Sept - now - on chemo hold for calming tummy we hope. Markers stable for 2 months.
Nov 2013 - Herceptin-Perjeta-Avastin-Xgeva (collageneous colitis, which explains tummy probs, added Entocort)
December '13 BRAIN MRI ned in da head.
Jan 2014: CONTINUING on HAPX…
FEB 2014 PetCT clinical “impression”: 1. newbie nodule - SUV 1.5 right apical nodule, mildly hypermetabolic “suggestive” of worsening neoplastic lesion. 2. moderate worsening of the sternum – SUV 5.6 from 3.8
3. increasing sclerosis & decreasing activity of L1 met “suggests” mild healing. (SUV 9.4 v 12.1 in May ‘13)
4. scattered lung nodules, up to 5mm in size = stable, no increased activity
5. other small scattered sclerotic lesions, one in right iliac and one in thoracic vertebral body similar in appearance to L1 without PET activity and not clearly pathologic
APRIL 2014 - 6 YRS POST GAMMA ZAP, 7 YRS MBC & 18 YEARS FROM ORIGINAL DX!
October 2014: hold avastin, continue HPX
Feb 2015 Cancer you lost. NEDHEAD 7 years post gamma zap miracle, 8 years ST4, +19 yrs original diagnosis.
Continue HPX. Adding back Avastin
Nov 2015 pet/ct is mixed result. L1 SUV is worse. Continue Herceptin/avastin/xgeva. Might revisit Perjeta for L1. Meantime going for rads consult for L1
December 2015 - brain stable. Continue Herceptin, Perjeta, Avastin and xgeva.
Jan 2016: 5 days, 20 grays, Rads to L1 and continue on HAPX. I’m trying to "save" TDM1 for next line. Hope the rads work to quiet L1. Sciatic pain extraordinaire :((
Markers drop post rads.
2/24/16 HAP plus X - markers are down
SCIATIC PAIN DEAL BREAKER.
3/23/16 Laminectomy w/coflex implant L4/5. NO MORE SCIATIC PAIN!!! Healing.
APRIL 2016 - 9 YRS MBC
July 2016 - continue HAP plus Xgeva.
DEC 2016 - PETCT: mets to sternum, lungs, L1 still about the same in size and PET activity. Markers not bad. Not making changes if I don't need to. Herceptin/Perjeta/Avastin/Xgeva
APRIL 2017 10 YEARS MBC
December 2017 - Progression - gonna switch it up
FEB 2018 - Kadcyla 3 cycles ---->progression :(
MAY30th - bronchoscopy, w/foundation1 - her2 enriched
Aug 27, 2018 - start clinical trial ZW25
JAN 2019 - ZW25 seems to be keeping me stable
APRIL 2019 - ONE DOZEN YEARS LIVING METASTATIC
MAY 2019 - progression back on herceptin add xeloda
JUNE 2019 - "6 mos average survival" LMD & CNS new single brain met - one zap during 5 days true beam SBRT to cord met
10/30/19 - stable brain and cord. progression lungs and bones. washing out. applying for ds8201a w nivolumab. hope they take me.
12/27/19 - begin ds8401a w nivolumab. after 2nd cycle nodes melt away. after 3rd cycle chest scan shows Improvement, brain MRI shows improvement, resolved areas & nothing new. switch to plain ENHERTU. after 4th cycle, PETscan shows mostly resolved or improved results. Markers near normal. I'm stunned but grateful.
10/26/20 - June 2021 Tucatinib/xeloda/herceptin - stable ish.
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10-14-2011, 07:59 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Thornhill, Ontario
Canada
Posts: 2,320
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
Like Laurel, I must confess I have washed down my Femara with Shiraz....
(followed by some chocolate, natch!)
all the best
caya
__________________
ER90%+/PR 50%+/HER 2+
1.7 cm and 1.0 cm.
Stage 1, grade 2, Node Negative (16 nodes tested)
MRM Dec.18/06
3 x FEC, 3 x Taxotere
Herceptin - every 3 weeks for a year, finished May 8/08
Tamoxifen - 2 1/2 years
Femara - Jan. 1, 2010 - July 18, 2012
BRCA1/BRCA2 Negative
Dignosed 10/16/06, age 48 , premenopausal
Mild lymphedema diagnosed June 2009 - breast surgeon and lymph. therapist think it's completely reversible - hope so.
Reclast infusion January 2012
Oopherectomy October 2013
15 Years NED!!
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10-15-2011, 11:36 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 1,744
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
I love mice
__________________
 Suzan W.
age 54 at diagnosis
5/05 suspicious mammogram-left breast
5/05 biopsy-invasive lobular carcinoma with LCIS,8mm tumor,stage 1 grade 2, ER+ PR+ Her2+++
6/14/05 bilateral mastectomy, node neg. all scans neg.
Oncotype DX-high risk
8/05-10/05 4 rounds A/C
10/05 -10/06 1 yr. herceptin
arimidex-5 years
2/14/08 started daily self administered injections..FORTEO for severe osteoporosis
7/28/09 BRCA 1 negative BRCA2 POSITIVE
8/17/09 prophylactic salpingo-oophorectomy
10/15/10 last FORTEOinjection
RECLAST infusion(ostoeporosis)
6/14/10 5 year cancerversary!
8/2010-18%increase in bone density!
no further treatments
Oncologist says, "Go do the Happy Dance"
I say,"What a long strange trip its been"
'One day at a time'
6-14-2015. 10 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!
7-16 to 9-16. Extensive (and expensive) dental work done to save teeth. Damage from osteoporosis and chemo and long term bisphosphonate use
6-14-16. 11 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
7-20-16 Prolia injection for severe osteoporosis
2 days later, massive hive outbreak. This led to an eventual dx of Chronic Ideopathic Urticaria, an auto-immune disease from HELL.
6-14-17 12 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!!
still suffering from CIU. 4 hospitilizations in the past year
as of today, 10-31-17 in remission from CIU and still, CANCER FREE!!!
6-14-18 13 YEAR CANCERVERSARY!! NED!!
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10-16-2011, 07:15 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hershey, PA. Live The Sweet Life!
Posts: 2,005
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
Now Rich you have prompted one of my many "mouse" tales.
Friends, I have 4 kitties and I live in an old, stone farmhouse out in the country. My furry, feline children are not the brightest bulbs in the box truth be told. What is to follow is an honest accounting of an event that happened one April 1st.
I had to leave my home to meet a client at his condo. As I was about to head downstairs and out the door I noticed Meow-meow (don't ask; I know it is an idiotic name), who is our "dumb-blonde" of kittydom, was in the bathtub with a little field mouse she had apparently carried up from her morning hunt in the basement. Usually, being the aforementioned mouse lover that I am (by Rich in his post), I rescue these unfortunate rodents and return them to the safety of the great outdoors to either live or die from their injuries. However, as I was running late I simply closed the door allowing nature to take is course. As I was swinging the door closed Whiskers and Molly scooted past me to join Meow-Meow in the bathroom. I sighed and felt sorry for the little guy being locked in a bathroom with 3 cats, but after all I had not invited him to enter a home with 4 resident cats, had I?
When I got to my appointment the door was opened by a VERY tall woman. I was expecting to meet a man named Dana with whom I had been conversing via telephone about listing his condo. Imagine my astonishment when the woman with the Amazonian proportions extended her paw to give me a limp handshake all the while introducing herself as Dana! Then her "partner" greeted me from over Dana's shoulder. The partner was clearly female an (attribute Dana had acquired via a surgeon's skill). Thank God they had a little dog that I could kneel down and fuss over giving me time to recover my wits!
When I returned home from the morning's interview with the Odd Couple, I decided to release the kitties from the bathroom and scoop up the sure-to-be-dead mouse. Upon pushing in the door I spied Whiskers lounging lazily on the window sill, Molly asleep on the bath mat, and Meow-Meow still in the bathtub along with the very much alive mouse who upon seeing me ran and hid behind the cat!
It was April Fools Day and the world was completely upside down. I caught the mouse. Marched him outside placing him beneath a bush whereupon I informed him he was the luckiest damn mouse in the universe.
I decided to call it a day...
__________________
Smile On!
Laurel
Dx'd w/multifocal DCIS/IDS 3/08
7mm invasive component
Partial mast. 5/08
Stage 1b, ER 80%, PR 90%, HER-2 6.9 on FISH
0/5 nodes
4 AC, 4 TH finished 9/08
Herceptin every 3 weeks. Finished 7/09
Tamoxifen 10/08. Switched to Femara 8/09
Bilat SPM w/reconstruction 10/08
Clinical Trial w/Clondronate 12/08
Stopped Clondronate--too hard on my gizzard!
Switched back to Tamoxifen due to tendon pain from Femara
15 Years NED
I think I just might hang around awhile....
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10-17-2011, 12:36 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,519
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Re: OK for mice to drink alcohol as long as they pop their AIs or have their ovaries
LOL Laurel! Awesome story... I bet that mouse went to the nearest bar and downed a few stiff drinks after that...
__________________
Brenda
NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)
Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~ Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~ Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~ micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~ micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg
Apr'07~ MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~ Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~ MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~ MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~ PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~ scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~ MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~ dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~ Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~ new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~ new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~ 25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.
"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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