Why do I want to quit now?

[danceswithrain]

Finished chemo TCH in Aug.07, surgery end of Sept. Finished Herceptin April 08. I wanted so much to get it all behind me. So why am I so depressed? Have been fighting this depression since Nov. am estranged from my family, my husband, just lost my job. I have been fighting this depression. I am on anti depressants, I was seeing a counselor but now I can't afford it.
I feel like my whole life is upside down. The first part of the depression caught me off guard. But now I live with it every day. My life seems so empty. I have a beautiful new granddaughter and 3 daughters one who lives with me. They should be enough to give me reason to go on. My husband loves me alot but we are living thousands of miles apart because of my stepson.
I have always been a very strong person and powered thru chemo. But since the surgery I have fallen apart and can't seem to get on my feet no matter how hard I try.
I posted here during chemo but have been lurking in the background since. I have lost my spirit and motivation. Besides all the normal after effects I have developed chemo brain very bad. I am seeing a nerologist to do some electrical scan on the 28th.
My question? Has anyone suffered this much 'after' treatment? How do you get back on your feet and want to live again?

[IRENE FROM TAMPA]

You sound exactly like me dances.

I have battled contual cancer for the last 12 1/2 yrs. and have always done well, full of energy, continued working but..

Since Dec. of 2007 - I have also gone down hill and can not seem to get out of a funk. I am on constant chemo, just starting the Herc/Dm1 but it seems like I have lost my spirit. My infusion nurse recommended me getting on an anti-depressant also since sometimes so much chemo kills off our Seratonin (I think that is the right one) and can give us those symptoms.

I took it for awhile and then quite, but I am thinking I should start again. I also have 3 daughters and just
had a new grand daughter added. My sig other lost his job about 3 months ago also.

Just hang in there - I know its tough but I do know exactly what you are feeling.

Take care

[ElaineM]

Hi,
Hang in there ladies. My naturopathic physican has ld me over and over again that the worst thing we can do is get depressed. He said that will negatively affect our health more than anything else.
Talk to people who understand.This is a great website for that. Maybe you can find some free or inexpensive counselling though the American Cancer Society or other organizations that would understand your situation. Good luck.

[Jackie07]

I was very, very depressed the first two times when I had lost my job due to cancer treatment. The third time, I felt kind of bad. The fourth time, I tried everything I could to see if there's a way around it (to regain my teaching certificate perhaps through another program)and started taking a math class online through the local community college. Just had my midterm exam and I think I aced it - that made me feel pretty good.

Exercising - both physically and mentally - is essential for a positive mood. But doing something you are good at and hanging out with people who love you and know your 'worth' (Have you seen the movie 'Joy Luck Club'?)
will help you come out of it. The biggest mistake I made when I lost my job 14 months after my first brain surgery was to stay home and not getting involved with anybody or anything. That only made my condition worse. When I finally got a job as a hostess in a local Chinese restaurant, I was able to gradually regain my 'brain function' and came out of the depression.

But, first thing you might want to do is to rest... and then regoup and restart. I've been making more money each time I got a new job (pretty much had to change my profession and to go out of town each time ...(after doing some very, very low- paying jobs in between.)
Write a diary, stay online with us... We are doing pretty much like a group counseling session here. Take advantage of it. We are all with you.

I can't speak for you, but I can sympathize with the feelings having a stage 4 diagnosis . I should be happy that I am alive today but the unknowing of what the future will hold puts a damper on this moment. We need to seize the day and enjoy even the smallest thing that happens because we are here now and now is what counts. I wrote this quote down the other day-"Stop looking to the future, living in the past, LIVE LIFE NOW". We can't change anything -beyond what we are doing to maintain our current state of health-so its useless to dwell on what may becoming down the road. Find your support group -be it friends family and spill it out here too. This message board has been very helpful to me -just in reading others journeys. I'll get off my soapbox now- but remember you are not alone.

[Becky]

All I can say is do not let this disease and your circumstances be more powerful than it should (or deserves) to be.

Smile, it does make you feel better.

[kcherub]

I am so sorry that you still dealing with this! I think we hope/expect to bounce back when our treatments are done and out of our systems. It just isn't so.

This group probably saved my life several times. I am the "expect the worst" girl, and have gone through several periods when I thought I just couldn't take it anymore. I felt like it was all hopeless.

It comes and goes with me now. There are more good days than bad, so I just try to take it day by day. Posting here is a great way to get some relief, to be supported and to feel loved. The outside world just doesn't get it sometimes, and it is to be expected.

Wolves travel in packs, yes? Think of us as your pack.

Take care,

[Jackie07]

Yah -

A pack of Werewolves ...

[tomatojuice]

Danceswithrain: Before I was dx with the cancer I went through 1 year and 1/2 of terrible depression. I was seriously in debt, and worried about it all the time. I was also having some serious dental problems. Lost all of my top teeth to periodontal desease. Couldn't afford dentures. Had to go to a clinic to have them made-which was very time consuming. I was so depressed-I didn't want to go out anywhere alone. At home I thought all the time I was going to be arrested for owing money. All I did was pace up and down day after day. I ate nothing but frozen dinners evryday. My brother who I love very much would visit me from time to time. He would always tell me that it would pass-that I would get better. I to this day believe that I got better because of my brother. Because I truly believed him when he said it. Depression is different for everyone, I know. But I have struggled with it more than once in my life. Another time I had it for about a year. That time I believe I brought myself out-by concentrating on doing something I liked and always wanted to do.(that was chrochet) So all I can say is try to be aware of the things you like to do. And try to be with the people who are the most positive to you. Also I found writing in a journal every morning very helpful.But not to read until maybe months later. Also look in the mirror, you are a beautiful woman, with a wonderful smile, and great hair. Think of how terrific you are. Just want to add my stats DX 2/25, Mar 25 rt. masectomy 3/18 nodes er-pr-her+++ TCH evy 3wks Just finished chemo #4 last week

[Colleens_Husband]

Vicki:

I am sorry you had to go through all of this. This must be a very difficult time for you and those people who love and care about you.

There are many reasons why you may be experiencing depression including social, psychological, physical, or biochemical reasons. Seeing a doctor possibly even psychiatrist would seem like a prudent course of action. The reason I would recommend a psychiatrist is that there may very well be a medical basis for your depression and a psychologist may not have the background to help you.

There are some types of depression that you may not be able to lift yourself out of without some medical intervention.

Vicki, please take excellent care of yourself and be very careful. You are not alone. We are on your side and we will help out as much as we can.

You are in our thoughts and in our prayers.

Lee

[Jackie07]

I just remembered that I did not "came out of it" simply by getting a job. Because after working 'normally' for two years, I went to Texas Rehabilitation Commission per my old Sunday School Teacher's advice. (I had been missing sunday school for several years by then.) When the case worker - a middle aged man - looked at me and asked me "what is your disability?" I just bursted out crying like never before.

After I managed to tell him my ordeal, he told me that I had to go to the psychiatrist at the local MHMR (Mental Health Mental Retardation) because I evidently had 'unresolved' issues. It was a big blow to me and my husband and his family all thought it wasn't necessary. But the volunteer experience I had at the Youth Counseling Center in Taipei - Teacher Chang - convinced myself that I needed professional help.

They must have informed each other (had to be on my chart because each time I met a new staff, he/she would ask me "how did you lose your job?", that would automatically bring tears in my eyes and I would not be able to talk without sobbing. But it did get better each time after I had repeated my 'traumatic experience'.

Because I 'recognized' my problem and knew the cause of my depression (which no longer existed because I had a job at the time - just not the ideal job, not the job in my trained profession), the doctor did not give me any anti-depressant which I did take for less than a week when I was very depressed two months after I had been kicked out of the local public library where I had worked 5 years as a reference librarian. They all thought I was brain-damaged...

Watching the PBS 'Brain' program which talks about the 'plasticity of the brain', I realized how fortunately I have been by doing the right thing (going back to school) and maintaining a good support system. But all these will pass, only 'love never fails'. If not earthly love (which is never perfect), we are sure to have the love from God, which will never cease.

[Paty]

Dear Vicky,

I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling soooo bad. I have fought depression since 15 years ago, and I have learned that with a good spirit, good intention, good reading, and good medicine you can overcome all what you are feeling. Of course what we are going through is such a difficult experience and it is now when we need much support and help. Look for it!. You deserve a great quality of life, more than ever before, you need to live each moment with joy and a strong spirit. I took Lexapro for some months during my chemo treatment and after that, it was a great drug that worked very well for me. Do not worry about your job, there are many jobs out there, this may be a new chance to find something different and enjoy it too. Vicky, all my best wishes and my prayers are with you. I am sure there will be something out there for you that will help you overcome all these bad moments. With all my love,

Paty

[pattyz]

Well,

Platitudes don't help.

Sometimes: the right drug, the one thought, a new fight, the one activity or 'talk' therapy might help. There is no one 'right' answer to your question.

You are still fairly new to this life altering experience. And that's what it is...

You may be in more grief than you realize. Where you were in 'fight' mode for a long duration, you are now moving on to the next phase. The uncertainty of what will be, the realization of what you've been through, what you have 'lost'. Battle fatigue. And grieving.

The one thing I do know is this: only time passing really helps. Going through the feelings; feeling lower than worm poop; coming out of the rain, into the sun...

And back and forth, up and down. I have learned to try and embrace the really good days, moments, events. Knowing full well that those empty, hollow, lost, 'what's the use' feelings will come again.

You will find something that is just your 'trigger', unique to your own experience.

empathetic hugs,
pattyz

[kcherub]

Yes...it was rather late!?!

Take care,

[dlaxague]

Hi Vicki,

So many women experience these after-treatment doldrums. I think that it's in part because treatment is so physically grueling, and we harness all our energies to get through it. Most of us don't have much left to deal with the big emotional and spiritual issues that a life-threatening illness raises. So when treatment ends and we begin to recover physically, all those put-off, stuffed-down emotions can spew out and overwhelm us.

I think that as part of active treatment, it should automatic to prepare us for this time. At the very least, mention that it's likely to happen. Even better, a few individual counseling sessions or group programs that talk about what to expect and get us to begin thinking about what might work for us when the doldrums hit. Just as we get an appointment for the next onc visit, and blood draw, etc - we should get automatic appointments for some kind of program that gives us a few tools for the non-physical issues that come with a cancer diagnosis. But we don't, so what to do?

As others have said, it's different for each of us. I think that what's common to all of us is that it does help to know that this happens to many many women. Probably the majority do have a slump after treatment ends. How low and how long we slump will vary of course.

You have taken a very big step toward healing already. You have named the problem, and you have told us about it. That says to me that you're on the way back up, even if you don't feel it yet. How to help yourself get there? We can tell you what worked for us but you're the only one who can figure out what will work for you - because each of us is different.

Maybe it would help you to make a list of things that you think might help you. Try to put them in an order of what you want to try first. Examples would be getting active in a church or meditation group, committing to getting more exercise, finding a creative outlet that brings you joy, gardening - whatever you know brings pleasure to your heart. And then begin adding the things on your list into your life, watching patiently to see if they are making a difference. It might be a very small difference at first. It probably (alas), will not be a quick fix, because you have work of exploration to do, and grieving to do, and still some physical healing also.

I have found it helpful sometimes just to sit in a quiet place, perhaps with some gentle music. I spend some time settling myself and quieting my busy thoughts and then I begin making a list of things that bring me joy. Or if that seems impossible, I call it things that USED to bring me joy. As I list them, I usuallly begin to feel a little glimpse of that joy. They almost always turn out to be simple things. I know that for me, if I cannot get to that place of remembering the feeling of joy, I need to do something more active. For me that something is to get physically active enough to make me gasp for breath, and sweat. Hiking, usually. For me, that hard exercise helps release something, or unblock something. For others, a good hard cry can have a similar effect. Or maybe that's why some go shopping (laughing!). There's something for each of us - we just have to discover it.

If you feel totally overwhelmed by this discussion of "what to do", that might be an indication that seeking professional help would be a good first step. It won't be easy, given the financial issues. But there may be ways that you aren't aware of. You may have to be more assertive in expressing your need than you normally would or could. Call your PCP, your onc, your surgeon (all of them, if needed) and tell them clearly that you must have some help - they may know of assistance programs, or they may refer you to a medical social worker who could help you to find help. Many counties have programs that operate on sliding scales.

Above all - be patient and kind with yourself. It's true that some of what causes these doldrums is the expectation of others in our lives that once treatment is over, we are done and "should" return immediately to normal. But I think that we are our own worst and harshest critics. When you hear that little voice telling you "you should ... yada yada", tell it to stop right there. You are still healing. You will be healing from this for the rest of your life. Some of that healing will be painful, some will be joyful, lots will be in between. Just let it happen with as little judgment of yourself as you can muster.

In the book "The Four Agreements, one of the four is "do your best". Yeah, we've heard that before - and to me it puts a lot of pressure on me. But then he goes on to completely release that pressure as he says that "your best will vary moment moment by moment." Ahhh! Sometimes, "my best" is pretty pathetic, but it IS, at that moment, my best.

Be gentle with yourself. And thanks for starting this thread that we hope is helping you, but is also helping everyone who's reading and participating and re-examining.

Love,
Debbie Laxague

[danceswithrain]

Thank you all for your kind words and support. Everyday I say just get thru today and tommorrow will be better. But after 9 months of this I'm worn out. The hallway between here and there is getting awful long. I've always had dreams and goals and somewhere along the way I lost those. I don't even know where I'm supposed to be living much less what I'm suppose to be doing. I just want to be thru this time.
I will contact the dr. Monday to try and up my meds. I think the cancer combined with all the other things going on in my life have just overwhelmed me.
I think my family is like 'cancer's over what's the problem'. It was so bad with my mom I can't even speak to her anymore. As I have tried to remove myself from anyone who drags me down further. My husband has been very understanding but he lives 4000 miles away and until the issue with my stepson is resolved I can't go home. Bought this house here in AZ a year and half ago to start a new life on my own, got a small business loan to start my company and a month later the cancer hit. Now I have a large mortgage, big business loan that I had to use to live on during chemo and was told I couldn't do my business because of the heavy lifting it required. So went to work right after surgery as a project scheduler/estimator for a construction company. Office compared to field work. Now laid off due to economy.
So that's why I say my life has been turned upside down in the space of 2 years.
Would someone look on my back? Is there a sign?

[Patb]

Just wanted to say I am thinking about you and your
circumstances. This sounds so much like post traumatic
stress syndrome what soldiers get after they have
been to war, fought the good fight, and come back
and say is this all there is. We even had an oncologist
speak to us about this syndrome and compare the two.
You are not alone and have come to a good place with
lots of good thoughts. Take care and I wish you the
best.
patb

[harrie]

Danceswithrain, if you are not getting the relief like you are expecting, you might want to consider seeing a different psychiatrist or psychologist for another opinion.

Another suggestion....break a chopstick. I know this sounds silly. Just a superstition of course. When i start getting multiple "bad lucks" in a row, I break a chopstick and as far as I know...it works. Someone told me this YRS ago and I still do it. I don't swear by it, but I still just do it because....why not...

There was a article I had read about post-chemo depression. I know that it is not uncommon.

Take care. I will send you a prayer....

[sassy]

Dances,

There is a sign on your back.

It says:

"Line forms here to support DanceswithRain"

and we are all in line.

Although I did not have as many life changes to deal with that you are experiencing, I did go through a period of depression following completion of herceptin. I felt like I had finally reached the "end" that I had been working so hard to reach, and all I found was a void.

Little consolation, but time does help. Please do not hesitate to seek counseling and/or consider medication.

This site was my lifeline through the difficult times.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

[AlaskaAngel]

Hi Vicky,

During the years we have picked ourselves up from time to time with the reserves of the energy of our youth. We might not always look a whole lot older after treatment, but our bodies are. We've worked hard through the years in the belief that if we "did our part" at some point we would be able to take it a little easier. We put energy into all that it takes to "get through treatment", believing that we wouldn't be all that different afterward, and promising ourselves that once we did that, life would get easier. I think it is some of these promises we made ourselves that are broken. After all that we did, life didn't get easier, it got HARDER.

What happens then? We are sitting so close to the big picture that it is too big to take it all in and make sense out of it or figure out what to do about it. There are so many things wrong with the picture that need fixing that after a while those are the only things we can see. It gets harder and harder to pick out where to start.

Pick out something in that big picture that you know you can do something about. You might have to start with the smallest thing in the picture. Then turn your back on the big picture until you've finished that one thing. When you turn around, look at the picture for one good thing in it no matter how small, and tell yourself why you like it so much. Then pick something else out that you think you might be able to try to fix. There are some things that may never be fixed -- and there are things that look worse when they are all piled together than they do one at a time.

It is normal to get stuck and lose perspective.

Hugs,

AlaskaAngel