HER2 Support Group Forums - View Single Post - early Christmas present--10 yr overall & bc specific survival results just published!

Jean · 03-12-2015, 05:17 PM

Very Interesting indeed....I do believe that early detection is a true benefit and does save lives. What patient dx want to hear they are stage 4? The horse is out of the barn and running at stage 4 and it is a different course of fighting the disease. That is fact.

Please see below link from Jama.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1883018

Chrisy: She was dx. in 2002 and did not have chemo or Herceptin. I don't believe that the test for Her2 was being done at that time as standard of care. I stand corrected if it was. Trials were still being performed.
Case in point: So many women were dx. early back then and NOT treated for HER2 as they are now. Chrisy was one.
She had mastectomy and was told she had a clean sentinal node. Again, back then the thought was if the node was negative you were home free. The cancer cells did not invade into the system. Well, we know now that is not true. Had Chrisy be dx. with Her2 and treated with Herceptin maybe (a strong maybe) as she was early stage she might have had a totally different outcome. Yes, we will never know for sure. But we do know that many women after Chrisy were dx. as she was and Her2 dx. and treated and they have NOT recurred. So are we saying that early detection holds little or no value?
Are we saying that because Herceptin is not 100% perfect, we should not have treatment since it doesn't serve all we should think about not having treatment?
That when a women is dx. with Stage 1 we just say, "well I don't know if Herceptin and the treatment will 100% work for me, so therefore, I am taking a pass and not electing to have that treatment, which is now standard of care. Okay, if that is your individual choice then I respect it. But to also blanket and say that early detection earns no merit is a heavy statement. I also have to say that most if not all oncologist wish that every patient they administer care to were stage 1 and not stage 4.

Back to Chrisy, she was dx. stage IV in 2004 with extensive liver mets. Fair to say that was the history of Her2 to return and most often in a 2 year time line. Chrisy Began treatment with TCH and gained a complete response. In 2007 she had recurrence. The dr's. certainly don't know why the treatment stopped benefiting her. Yet many others remained NED. We do know this - that thousands of lives were saved due to early treatment of Herceptin. Chrisy is case in point. Here she is in 2007 another 5 years of NED I think it is safe to say that the treatment did work for the five years.

For our new members who are dx. and have been encouraged by their oncologist that having an early dx. is a great advantage, it is certainly without merit to say that is not an accurate statement. I believe it to be an extremely discouraging statement to say that early detection does hold strong value to the life and quality of the patient.

Most important, each year new drugs, new procedures, new trails are being presented. If our good dr. had the attitude that early detection did not hold strong value it would be a sad state of affairs to the cancer patients.

In the United States:

Breast cancer is the most common cancer among American women after skin cancer.
231,840 new cases of invasive breast cancer will be diagnosed in women in 2015.
62,570 new cases of breast carcinoma in situ (non-invasive, has not invaded nearby tissue), including ductal carcinoma in situ and lobular carcinoma in situ.
40,290 women will die from breast cancer.
2,350 new cases of breast cancer will be diagnosed in men.
440 men will die from breast cancer.
The five-year relative survival rate for female invasive breast cancer patients has improved from 75 percent in the mid-1970s to 90 percent today.
The five-year relative survival rate for women diagnosed with localized breast cancer (cancer that hasn’t spread to lymph nodes or outside the breast) is 98.5 percent. In cancer that has spread to nearby lymph nodes (regional stage) or to distant lymph nodes or organs (distant stage), the survival rate falls to 84 percent or 24 percent, respectively.
There are more than 2.8 million breast cancer survivors in the U.S., including women still being treated and those who have completed treatment.
According to the American Cancer Society, Cancer Facts & Figures 2015

Cancer of any kind is best detected early - and we have an oblation to ourselves and family to maintain a yearly care system of our health. People who wait until systematic to see their doctors is not wise. Be it breast or your teeth.

Thought: What if Dr. Dennis Slamon felt that why bother researching Herceptin unless it worked for all? or any thought other than researching a drug for Her2 breast cancer. Or he felt, well - it only saves some not all, so why take it at all since we just don't know who will have the positive results. Let's not offer herceptin until the trials show every patient is 100% NED.

While I do agree that money should be spent on prevention tell it to the greedy corporations who pollute our world and do not want to take accountability for their actions. Why, because it is all about their profit center.
Governments and environmental agencies have to track them down, take them to court and spend millions of additional dollars in court fees. While you are spending years in court, thousands upon thousands of people are dying from cancer related disease from the environment. While the thought is accurate that our environment needs to be addressed, in the meantime we are being attacked by companies who continue to pollute our earth. It is a double whammy, we have to address the patients who are dx. and fighting for their lives.

I can't jam my head and heart with that those big corporations who damage our earth when I was dx. with breast cancer. My first thought was to survive and find out what my choices were.

This is a individual choice of treatment. I venture to bet that if we could take a poll among the women who are dx. with Her2 breast cancer how many have made the choice to pass on the standard of care? How many of our members who back in the day were told they were Her2 stage 1, and herceptin was not available since it was not approved by FDA and then within 2 years recurred as a stage 4. Would they have chosen to have treatment with herceptin if offered? How many of those treated would have become NED?

This is a compelling and truly interesting discussion.
But I cannot believe that a blanket overall statement that early detection does not improve the dx and treatment of a women with early stage cancer is something to take the bank.
I am not seeing it that way.

We have so many new members coming to the site who are terrified with their dx. I think we all remember the day our doctor told us we have breast cancer. The fear and terror that runs down your spine. To think that their is no advantage to early detection and treatment (if the patient has chosen to have treatment) is a dismal give up attitude. You have cancer be it stage 1 or 4 - it is the same thing.
I have to repute and say not so. We have way too many sisters stage 4 on this site surviving for years
and doing so NED. What are the possibles to those who are dx. stage 1?

We do know that the landscape of a Her2 dx. was changed forever with herceptin. Dr. Salmon I am sure wanted to know who is guaranteed to have positive results. Hopefully his next gift to us will be the ability to determine who herceptin works for and who doesn't.

jean
__________________
Stage 1, Grade 1, 3/30/05
Lumpectomy 4/15/05 - 6MM IDC
Node Neg. (Sentinel node)
ER+ 90% / PR-, Her2+++ by FISH
Ki-67 40%
Arimidex 5/05
Radiation 32 trt, 5/30/05
Oncotype DX test 4/17/06, 31% high risk
TOPO 11 neg. 4/06
Stopped Arimidex 5/06
TCH 5/06, 6 treatments
Herceptin 5/06 - for 1 yr.
9/06 Completed chemo
Started Femara Sept. 2006

03-12-2015, 05:17 PM	#19
Jean Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,154	Re: early Christmas present--10 yr overall & bc specific survival results just publis Very Interesting indeed....I do believe that early detection is a true benefit and does save lives. What patient dx want to hear they are stage 4? The horse is out of the barn and running at stage 4 and it is a different course of fighting the disease. That is fact. Please see below link from Jama. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1883018 Chrisy: She was dx. in 2002 and did not have chemo or Herceptin. I don't believe that the test for Her2 was being done at that time as standard of care. I stand corrected if it was. Trials were still being performed. Case in point: So many women were dx. early back then and NOT treated for HER2 as they are now. Chrisy was one. She had mastectomy and was told she had a clean sentinal node. Again, back then the thought was if the node was negative you were home free. The cancer cells did not invade into the system. Well, we know now that is not true. Had Chrisy be dx. with Her2 and treated with Herceptin maybe (a strong maybe) as she was early stage she might have had a totally different outcome. Yes, we will never know for sure. But we do know that many women after Chrisy were dx. as she was and Her2 dx. and treated and they have NOT recurred. So are we saying that early detection holds little or no value? Are we saying that because Herceptin is not 100% perfect, we should not have treatment since it doesn't serve all we should think about not having treatment? That when a women is dx. with Stage 1 we just say, "well I don't know if Herceptin and the treatment will 100% work for me, so therefore, I am taking a pass and not electing to have that treatment, which is now standard of care. Okay, if that is your individual choice then I respect it. But to also blanket and say that early detection earns no merit is a heavy statement. I also have to say that most if not all oncologist wish that every patient they administer care to were stage 1 and not stage 4. Back to Chrisy, she was dx. stage IV in 2004 with extensive liver mets. Fair to say that was the history of Her2 to return and most often in a 2 year time line. Chrisy Began treatment with TCH and gained a complete response. In 2007 she had recurrence. The dr's. certainly don't know why the treatment stopped benefiting her. Yet many others remained NED. We do know this - that thousands of lives were saved due to early treatment of Herceptin. Chrisy is case in point. Here she is in 2007 another 5 years of NED I think it is safe to say that the treatment did work for the five years. For our new members who are dx. and have been encouraged by their oncologist that having an early dx. is a great advantage, it is certainly without merit to say that is not an accurate statement. I believe it to be an extremely discouraging statement to say that early detection does hold strong value to the life and quality of the patient. Most important, each year new drugs, new procedures, new trails are being presented. If our good dr. had the attitude that early detection did not hold strong value it would be a sad state of affairs to the cancer patients. In the United States: Breast cancer is the most common cancer among American women after skin cancer. 231,840 new cases of invasive breast cancer will be diagnosed in women in 2015. 62,570 new cases of breast carcinoma in situ (non-invasive, has not invaded nearby tissue), including ductal carcinoma in situ and lobular carcinoma in situ. 40,290 women will die from breast cancer. 2,350 new cases of breast cancer will be diagnosed in men. 440 men will die from breast cancer. The five-year relative survival rate for female invasive breast cancer patients has improved from 75 percent in the mid-1970s to 90 percent today. The five-year relative survival rate for women diagnosed with localized breast cancer (cancer that hasn’t spread to lymph nodes or outside the breast) is 98.5 percent. In cancer that has spread to nearby lymph nodes (regional stage) or to distant lymph nodes or organs (distant stage), the survival rate falls to 84 percent or 24 percent, respectively. There are more than 2.8 million breast cancer survivors in the U.S., including women still being treated and those who have completed treatment. According to the American Cancer Society, Cancer Facts & Figures 2015 Cancer of any kind is best detected early - and we have an oblation to ourselves and family to maintain a yearly care system of our health. People who wait until systematic to see their doctors is not wise. Be it breast or your teeth. Thought: What if Dr. Dennis Slamon felt that why bother researching Herceptin unless it worked for all? or any thought other than researching a drug for Her2 breast cancer. Or he felt, well - it only saves some not all, so why take it at all since we just don't know who will have the positive results. Let's not offer herceptin until the trials show every patient is 100% NED. While I do agree that money should be spent on prevention tell it to the greedy corporations who pollute our world and do not want to take accountability for their actions. Why, because it is all about their profit center. Governments and environmental agencies have to track them down, take them to court and spend millions of additional dollars in court fees. While you are spending years in court, thousands upon thousands of people are dying from cancer related disease from the environment. While the thought is accurate that our environment needs to be addressed, in the meantime we are being attacked by companies who continue to pollute our earth. It is a double whammy, we have to address the patients who are dx. and fighting for their lives. I can't jam my head and heart with that those big corporations who damage our earth when I was dx. with breast cancer. My first thought was to survive and find out what my choices were. This is a individual choice of treatment. I venture to bet that if we could take a poll among the women who are dx. with Her2 breast cancer how many have made the choice to pass on the standard of care? How many of our members who back in the day were told they were Her2 stage 1, and herceptin was not available since it was not approved by FDA and then within 2 years recurred as a stage 4. Would they have chosen to have treatment with herceptin if offered? How many of those treated would have become NED? This is a compelling and truly interesting discussion. But I cannot believe that a blanket overall statement that early detection does not improve the dx and treatment of a women with early stage cancer is something to take the bank. I am not seeing it that way. We have so many new members coming to the site who are terrified with their dx. I think we all remember the day our doctor told us we have breast cancer. The fear and terror that runs down your spine. To think that their is no advantage to early detection and treatment (if the patient has chosen to have treatment) is a dismal give up attitude. You have cancer be it stage 1 or 4 - it is the same thing. I have to repute and say not so. We have way too many sisters stage 4 on this site surviving for years and doing so NED. What are the possibles to those who are dx. stage 1? We do know that the landscape of a Her2 dx. was changed forever with herceptin. Dr. Salmon I am sure wanted to know who is guaranteed to have positive results. Hopefully his next gift to us will be the ability to determine who herceptin works for and who doesn't. jean __________________ Stage 1, Grade 1, 3/30/05 Lumpectomy 4/15/05 - 6MM IDC Node Neg. (Sentinel node) ER+ 90% / PR-, Her2+++ by FISH Ki-67 40% Arimidex 5/05 Radiation 32 trt, 5/30/05 Oncotype DX test 4/17/06, 31% high risk TOPO 11 neg. 4/06 Stopped Arimidex 5/06 TCH 5/06, 6 treatments Herceptin 5/06 - for 1 yr. 9/06 Completed chemo Started Femara Sept. 2006 __________________ Stage 1, Grade 1, 3/30/05 Lumpectomy 4/15/05 - 6MM IDC Node Neg. (Sentinel node) ER+ 90% / PR-, Her2+++ by FISH Ki-67 40% Arimidex 5/05 Radiation 32 trt, 5/30/05 Oncotype DX test 4/17/06, 31% high risk TOPO 11 neg. 4/06 Stopped Arimidex 5/06 TCH 5/06, 6 treatments Herceptin 5/06 - for 1 yr. 9/06 Completed chemo Started Femara Sept. 2006 Last edited by Jean; 03-12-2015 at 05:43 PM..