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Becky · 11-05-2011, 02:12 PM

Dear Elizabeth

Do you know if you will be getting the GM-CSF (brand name Leukine) even if you do not get the vaccine active? I believe that you will as the GM-CSF has some "self vaccination" properties in its own right and if they didn't, the researchers really couldn't attribute a good result from the vaccine alone.

GM-CSF is a white blood cell booster. It is like Neupogen/Neulasta (G-CSF) but has some unique and interesting properties that the G-CSF does not. Neulasta types boost your white count but only boost the neutrophils. Neutrophils are the body's first defense against infection which is why the onc's like it. Also, it works relatively quickly in boosting the neutrophils.

GM-CSF (Leukine) boosts all white blood cell types - neutrophils, monocytes, lymphocytes and most importantly - the dendrites (the white blood cell component that assists in the vaccination - aka life long immunity process). As a wbc booster during chemo, it can take alittle longer for the neutrophils to return especially after the first round of chemo - other than that, it works just as fast in subsequent rounds.

In a sense, Leukine can self vaccinate if given before, during and after the chemo process - when there is still cancer in the body. Leukine boosts the dendrites that identify the cancer, rush to the lymph nodes where the Bcells encode the invader and produce the killer T cells against the cancer (or anything you have been sick from before or vaccinated against - ie: you never catch the same cold twice and you don't get polio if you have been vaccinated).

One reason they are giving it in vaccine trials is to boost the dendritic effect so that the dendrites find the vaccine component and then those dendrites rush to the nodes and start the process. But, as you can see, if you still have a dormant cancer cell in the body, there is a chance that the Leukine can do this all by itself but not as effectively as if the vaccine active is there because at this point, if there is cancer in your body, it is like finding a needle in a haystack and the dendrites have to find that cell or two. None the less, if you only get the Leukine, it is not a waste as something good can come from just that.

I know alot about Leukine because I am one of the oddballs who insisted and received Leukine injections upon diagnosis of my cancer and used the drug as my WBC booster instead of Neulasta. I continued Leukine after my last chemo( 7 injections). In all, I had 87 injections. I did not have problems with delay of any chemo cycles although I was told this could happen - I took my chances and won on that.

Be aware that many people have problems with the first Leukine injection (but only the first). I had problems but continued with 86 other problem free injections. The first shot can cause incredible fatigue about one hour afterwards. Hopefully they keep everyone in the clinic for awhile just to make sure no one has reactions. The fatigue can be so great that you cannot drive. If this happens to you, I guarantee you will be frightened but it is a side effect that can happen (but it will never happen again as subsequent shots are like nothing and if it happens, you will feel fine the next day).

Like Neulasta, you will get the bone pain because your bone marrow is being stimulated to make white blood cells. I do not know if you had Neupogen or Neulasta during chemo but if you did, you will find the same symptoms as that with Leukine. And you will only get the one shot (I am guessing - one with each "vaccine" shot) - I had to take 10 shots per cycle of chemo (one per day starting 24 hrs after chemo). So if just one shot, the symptoms of bone pain will be gone in 24 hrs and viola!

I had the pleasure once to have dinner with the fine doctors at the Univ of WA vaccine programs. I mentioned the GM-CSF (Leukine) shots I had and they told me at that time that that was one of the smartest things I ever did for myself (at the time, Herceptin was not available and I had positive nodes so I was quite frantic - even though later I did get late Herceptin alone after chemo, rads etc were well over with).

Anyway, let us know how it goes and if you get the GM-CSF regardless.

Hugs to you

PS - you can read more about Leukine at www.leukine.com

11-05-2011, 02:12 PM	#6
Becky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stockton, NJ Posts: 4,179	Re: Vaccine trial update Dear Elizabeth Do you know if you will be getting the GM-CSF (brand name Leukine) even if you do not get the vaccine active? I believe that you will as the GM-CSF has some "self vaccination" properties in its own right and if they didn't, the researchers really couldn't attribute a good result from the vaccine alone. GM-CSF is a white blood cell booster. It is like Neupogen/Neulasta (G-CSF) but has some unique and interesting properties that the G-CSF does not. Neulasta types boost your white count but only boost the neutrophils. Neutrophils are the body's first defense against infection which is why the onc's like it. Also, it works relatively quickly in boosting the neutrophils. GM-CSF (Leukine) boosts all white blood cell types - neutrophils, monocytes, lymphocytes and most importantly - the dendrites (the white blood cell component that assists in the vaccination - aka life long immunity process). As a wbc booster during chemo, it can take alittle longer for the neutrophils to return especially after the first round of chemo - other than that, it works just as fast in subsequent rounds. In a sense, Leukine can self vaccinate if given before, during and after the chemo process - when there is still cancer in the body. Leukine boosts the dendrites that identify the cancer, rush to the lymph nodes where the Bcells encode the invader and produce the killer T cells against the cancer (or anything you have been sick from before or vaccinated against - ie: you never catch the same cold twice and you don't get polio if you have been vaccinated). One reason they are giving it in vaccine trials is to boost the dendritic effect so that the dendrites find the vaccine component and then those dendrites rush to the nodes and start the process. But, as you can see, if you still have a dormant cancer cell in the body, there is a chance that the Leukine can do this all by itself but not as effectively as if the vaccine active is there because at this point, if there is cancer in your body, it is like finding a needle in a haystack and the dendrites have to find that cell or two. None the less, if you only get the Leukine, it is not a waste as something good can come from just that. I know alot about Leukine because I am one of the oddballs who insisted and received Leukine injections upon diagnosis of my cancer and used the drug as my WBC booster instead of Neulasta. I continued Leukine after my last chemo( 7 injections). In all, I had 87 injections. I did not have problems with delay of any chemo cycles although I was told this could happen - I took my chances and won on that. Be aware that many people have problems with the first Leukine injection (but only the first). I had problems but continued with 86 other problem free injections. The first shot can cause incredible fatigue about one hour afterwards. Hopefully they keep everyone in the clinic for awhile just to make sure no one has reactions. The fatigue can be so great that you cannot drive. If this happens to you, I guarantee you will be frightened but it is a side effect that can happen (but it will never happen again as subsequent shots are like nothing and if it happens, you will feel fine the next day). Like Neulasta, you will get the bone pain because your bone marrow is being stimulated to make white blood cells. I do not know if you had Neupogen or Neulasta during chemo but if you did, you will find the same symptoms as that with Leukine. And you will only get the one shot (I am guessing - one with each "vaccine" shot) - I had to take 10 shots per cycle of chemo (one per day starting 24 hrs after chemo). So if just one shot, the symptoms of bone pain will be gone in 24 hrs and viola! I had the pleasure once to have dinner with the fine doctors at the Univ of WA vaccine programs. I mentioned the GM-CSF (Leukine) shots I had and they told me at that time that that was one of the smartest things I ever did for myself (at the time, Herceptin was not available and I had positive nodes so I was quite frantic - even though later I did get late Herceptin alone after chemo, rads etc were well over with). Anyway, let us know how it goes and if you get the GM-CSF regardless. Hugs to you PS - you can read more about Leukine at www.leukine.com __________________ Kind regards Becky Found lump via BSE Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45 1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side) 2 micromets to sentinel node Stage 2A left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg lumpectomies 9/7/04 4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol Used Leukine instead of Neulasta 35 rads on right side only 4/05 started Tamoxifen Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations Oophorectomy 8/05 Started Arimidex 9/05 Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06 Arimidex Only Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia NED 18 years! Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think" Last edited by Becky; 11-05-2011 at 02:19 PM..