HER2 Support Group Forums - View Single Post - R.B. & other brainiacs

R.B. · 09-27-2007, 01:38 PM

Donna

Thanks for the brainiac complement.

I would repeat for those that haven't seen it before that I am not an expert nutritionist. I'm just a nerd who has spent rather a lot of time reading trials and books on the specific subject of fats.

I am guessing from your posts that you are pondering the topic of diet. (No great genius there

)

The key phrase for me in the quote that you have cited is “this is usually caused by fat malabsorption”. If your digestion is not working properly you will not be absorbing fats properly. If you have inflammation in your digestive system, it will not work properly.

There is a good book by Elaine Gottschall Breaking the Vicious Cycle. This explains in simple terms some of the causes of poor digestion.

If you're omega-3 6 balance is a long way out of balance you are more likely to suffer from inflammatory conditions. My personal experience is balancing the omega threes and sixes significantly assists in improving the digestion.

Most people do not have enough omega-3 and that diet, so poor absorption is in a sense a double whammy. Increasing your omega-3 content in your diet will increase the chances that at least some is getting absorbed.

In addition increasing your omega-3 intake and reducing omega six intake should help reduce inflammatory pressures, which includes inflammation in the digestive system.

So in this rather roundabout way what I'm trying to say is before worrying about your vitamin E. intake ensure that your digestion is working as best you can get it, and balancing of omega threes and sixes. (and the usuals avoid processed foods, get plenty of green things variety etc)

In respect of your questions on vitamin E. It is not a subject that I have read much on. Here is a link that looks at dosages

http://www.vitacost.com/Healthnotes/Supp/Vitamin-E.aspx

Oxidation is a difficult subject and there are no easy answers. You are asking some very fundamental questions, many of which at the moment aren't answered. Can't live with it and can't live without it. Some oxidation is good

and some oxidation is bad

. It is all a question of balance. There are no definitive answers.

If you are looking for something to change that really might make a significant difference to your risk profile it is to balance the omega threes and sixes, and ensure an adequate apply of the long chain omega threes DHA and EPA.

I'm in the process of finalising a book on omega threes and sixes and oxidation is one of the issues that it looks at. It will hopefully be available in November.

Here are some trial links and abstracts I found on Vitamin E some good some bad.

RB

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

1: Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2007;16(3):498-504.Links
Tocotrienol levels in adipose tissue of benign and malignant breast lumps in patients in Malaysia.
Nesaretnam K, Gomez PA, Selvaduray KR, Razak GA.
Malaysian Palm Oil Board, 6 Persiaran Insitusi, Bandar Baru Bangi, 43000 Kajang, Malaysia. sarnesar@mpob.gov.my

“The study reveals that dietary intake influences adipose tissue fatty acid levels and that adipose tissue is a dynamic reservoir of fat soluble nutrients. The higher adipose tissue concentrations of tocotrienols in benign patients provide support for the idea that tocotrienols may provide protection against breast cancer.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus
1: J Nutr Biochem. 2002 Jan;13(1):2-20. Links
Does lack of tocopherols and tocotrienols put women at increased risk of breast cancer?
Schwenke DC.
Wake Forest University School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, NC, USA

"Thus, it seems plausible that the modest protection from breast cancer associated with dietary vitamin E may be due to the effects of the other tocopherols and the tocotrienols in the diet."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
Effect of vitamin E on tamoxifen-treated breast cancer cells.
Peralta EA, Viegas ML, Louis S, Engle DL, Dunnington GL.
Department of Surgery, Southern Illinois University School of Medicine, Springfield, Ill, USA. eperalta@siumed.edu
“These studies suggest that supplemental vitamin E decreases the inhibitory effect of TAM on the proliferation of ER+ breast cancer cells and eliminates the rapid rise in intracellular calcium that leads to apoptosis stimulated by TAM. The use of vitamin E acetate supplements may be inadvisable for women taking tamoxifen.”

09-27-2007, 01:38 PM	#9
R.B. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,843	Donna Thanks for the brainiac complement. I would repeat for those that haven't seen it before that I am not an expert nutritionist. I'm just a nerd who has spent rather a lot of time reading trials and books on the specific subject of fats. I am guessing from your posts that you are pondering the topic of diet. (No great genius there ) The key phrase for me in the quote that you have cited is “this is usually caused by fat malabsorption”. If your digestion is not working properly you will not be absorbing fats properly. If you have inflammation in your digestive system, it will not work properly. There is a good book by Elaine Gottschall Breaking the Vicious Cycle. This explains in simple terms some of the causes of poor digestion. If you're omega-3 6 balance is a long way out of balance you are more likely to suffer from inflammatory conditions. My personal experience is balancing the omega threes and sixes significantly assists in improving the digestion. Most people do not have enough omega-3 and that diet, so poor absorption is in a sense a double whammy. Increasing your omega-3 content in your diet will increase the chances that at least some is getting absorbed. In addition increasing your omega-3 intake and reducing omega six intake should help reduce inflammatory pressures, which includes inflammation in the digestive system. So in this rather roundabout way what I'm trying to say is before worrying about your vitamin E. intake ensure that your digestion is working as best you can get it, and balancing of omega threes and sixes. (and the usuals avoid processed foods, get plenty of green things variety etc) In respect of your questions on vitamin E. It is not a subject that I have read much on. Here is a link that looks at dosages http://www.vitacost.com/Healthnotes/Supp/Vitamin-E.aspx Oxidation is a difficult subject and there are no easy answers. You are asking some very fundamental questions, many of which at the moment aren't answered. Can't live with it and can't live without it. Some oxidation is good and some oxidation is bad . It is all a question of balance. There are no definitive answers. If you are looking for something to change that really might make a significant difference to your risk profile it is to balance the omega threes and sixes, and ensure an adequate apply of the long chain omega threes DHA and EPA. I'm in the process of finalising a book on omega threes and sixes and oxidation is one of the issues that it looks at. It will hopefully be available in November. Here are some trial links and abstracts I found on Vitamin E some good some bad. RB http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum 1: Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2007;16(3):498-504.Links Tocotrienol levels in adipose tissue of benign and malignant breast lumps in patients in Malaysia. Nesaretnam K, Gomez PA, Selvaduray KR, Razak GA. Malaysian Palm Oil Board, 6 Persiaran Insitusi, Bandar Baru Bangi, 43000 Kajang, Malaysia. sarnesar@mpob.gov.my “The study reveals that dietary intake influences adipose tissue fatty acid levels and that adipose tissue is a dynamic reservoir of fat soluble nutrients. The higher adipose tissue concentrations of tocotrienols in benign patients provide support for the idea that tocotrienols may provide protection against breast cancer.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus 1: J Nutr Biochem. 2002 Jan;13(1):2-20. Links Does lack of tocopherols and tocotrienols put women at increased risk of breast cancer? Schwenke DC. Wake Forest University School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, NC, USA "Thus, it seems plausible that the modest protection from breast cancer associated with dietary vitamin E may be due to the effects of the other tocopherols and the tocotrienols in the diet." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum Effect of vitamin E on tamoxifen-treated breast cancer cells. Peralta EA, Viegas ML, Louis S, Engle DL, Dunnington GL. Department of Surgery, Southern Illinois University School of Medicine, Springfield, Ill, USA. eperalta@siumed.edu “These studies suggest that supplemental vitamin E decreases the inhibitory effect of TAM on the proliferation of ER+ breast cancer cells and eliminates the rapid rise in intracellular calcium that leads to apoptosis stimulated by TAM. The use of vitamin E acetate supplements may be inadvisable for women taking tamoxifen.”