HER2 Support Group Forums - Vitamins, supplements & chemo

HER2 Support Group Forums (https://her2support.org/vbulletin/index.php)

- her2group (https://her2support.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=28)

- - Vitamins, supplements & chemo (https://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35943)

Vitamins, supplements & chemo

Ladies, I have been taking some high tech vitamins & supplements which have given me amazing energy boost since I've been on chemo. I've noticed conflicting research on anti-oxidants and whether they might interfere wtih chemo. Esp worrying was the recent stury re: vitamin C. I wondered what vitamins, supplements you take, whether you think some of them might interfere with chemo, what's really helped you survive the crazy treatments they give us.

Here's what I've been taking--
CoQ10
Milk thistle
Vitamin D3
Vitamin E
Turmeric
Broccoli seed extract
L-glutamine, aloe & licorice formula
Immunoglobulin concentrate
Probiotics
Pancreas concentrate, pancreatin
Multivitamin with tons of stuff in it, but have stopped b/c it has 400% vitamin C

You Asked... Here's What I Previously Posted A While Back

My Keys To Success

Ladies, This list was designed for me -- with my particular pathology. I am NOT a medical professional. (As I think Marie says, I only play one in real life!) I AM a professional patient if ever there was one (since '95) and have read extensively for a layperson's understanding of Supplements. The Internet is a fabulous tool for information, as you all know.

I "met" Dr. Mitchell Gaynor when I read the first page of his book, HEALING ESSENCE. It gave me goose bumps and changed my life (in '98 w/mets). It was in a stack sent by caring friends. I would take one off, reject it, and move on. Hard to concentrate when you're staring at your own mortality. Then one early morning of sleeplessness, at 5 AM with pitch blackness outside, I went in to my bathroom, closed the door, not to disturb my husband, turned the light on and put the toilet seat down. I sat and began to read. IT TURNS OUT THAT THIS BOOK WAS GIVEN TO ME BY MY BABY DAUGHTER (now thirty something). It led me to Dr. Gaynor's door. If you GOOGLE -- DR. MITCHELL GAYNOR -- www.drgaynor.com --
you will learn much about this remarkable healer, running an INTEGRATIVE ONCOLOGY CENTER in Manhattan. I love this man and was surely led to him with some kind of divine intelligence. You can contact his office -- 212) 410 - 3820 for a copy of the book or an appt. His credentials are within the SITE above. Do yourself a huge favor and take the time to check out his recent TV appearances (by clicking on the bottom of the site! THEY ARE TRULY INSPIRING AND ENLIGHTENING!! May they touch your Soul and bless your life!

My spiritual journey has assisted me along w/all listed in my signature. Feeling mortally endangered I was moved to draw on every resource I possessed. I sensed a great force within me. Going deep within myself, meditating and using guided imagery, I tapped into the mindbody link, knowing it was TRUE. My emotions became quelled as I soared up into the Universe and became The Witness. As The Observor I connected with and became MY SOUL, my True Self!

Healing powers were awakened in me, as I called upon the Universe to conspire with me to bring healing energy to my body. I had seen the look on the faces of the doctors and nurses. I had been hugged by a nurse at the outset. I felt her chest heave as she fought back tears, having read my chart. I WILL PRAY FOR YOU, she whispered into my ear. I KNEW I was in big trouble! Peeks at bc bks confirmed my suspicions. My prognosis was beyond poor. So, instead I turned to HEALING ESSENCE, Wayne Dyer's books, Seat of the Soul, The Power of Now, slowly making my way to joy and harmony and wellness despite it all.

I opened my heart to discover a whole new world. I live with a Knowing -- the Spiritual Realm touches us daily with the power of Guardian Angels, Teachers and Guides sent to be at our side. WE ARE NEVER ALONE. NEVER! I have come to identify myself as a Spiritual Being, with a mind and a body. I now see others as the Souls they truly are. This perspective changes everything! I turned my back on a sense of frantic helplessness and despair, fear and dread. Instead I have embraced my WHOLENESS, my True Self. I feel my Oneness w/all that IS. My personal crisis became a spring board to fresh Awareness, epiphanies and perceptual alterations. I believe my wellness is more than miraculous. It includes the expertise of my surgeons and oncologists, my supplements boosting me up in every which way from the onset, and my awakening to a new reality that is sublime and EMPOWERING!!!

This is precisely what I wish for every one of you, my sweet Soul Sisters. I offer you my list below to be considered, based on your own pathology. I have included the supplements I take to fight off my 22 yrs of suffering from hot flashes. They are bold, and approved by Dr. Gaynor, but I hesitate to offer them as they are so controversial (including phytoestrogens, which some studies say can better bc outcomes and others fear). I am ER/PR-! So if you are plagued by constant flashing and desperation, think about these. My Plan B is to go on short term progesterone (pill or cream), hoping to stop the cycle.

Mainstream docs don't know much about vitamins/supplements, are not taught more than a single day's worth of info on this topic in medical school -- SHAME ON WESTERN MEDICINE! They are therefore suspicious, suspect you are wasting your time and money, worry that some may interfere with the chemo regime you are on.

So it took a lot of courage for me to decide, beginning with my recurrence in '98, to follow my beloved *nut oncs* (nutritional oncologist)advice. IT IS WHEN YOU ARE TAKING CHEMO, AND YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS COMPROMISED, THAT YOU MOST NEED TO BE TAKING SUPPLEMENTS.

I continue to take the vitamins/supplements listed below every single day. After carefully researching each one, one at a time, gathering other experts opinions (especially re dosages) and trying 1 at a time. Waiting to see if I had any adverse reactions I could pinpoint as coming from the correct source. Stopping that source for a few days. Trying it again. If the side effects recurred, I took the loss and either through the pills out or offered them to those who could better tolerate them.

Sending much loving and healing energy to all you wonderful women warriors with the courage of legions... http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/2b00001c91/06

STAY STRONG, BRAVE AND DETERMINED. AND NEVER STOP BELIEVING IN YOUR OWN POWER TO CALL YOUR DESIRED DESTINY TO YOU! REFUSE TO ALLOW FEAR-DRIVEN CONCEPTS TO MANIPULATE YOU AND PLAY GAMES WITH YOUR LIFE AND WELL-BEING. AND FOR THOSE WHO NEED ADDL HELP (anti-depressant, anti-anxiety) I believe if anyone needs such assistance -- it's a ca patient! As my fav onc says -- YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO SUFFER. WE HAVE REMEDIES FOR YOU TO HELP YOU GET THROUGH THIS... OOOOO XXXXX

MY VITAMINS/SUPPLEMENTS:

Asidophilus (AKA Lactobacilius Asidopholus) Probiotic, friendly bacteria/30 billion
viable cells per capsule, maintaining healthy microflora) (promotes healthy bowel function, provides gas pain and spasm relief) -- AM/PM

Alpha Lipoic Acid – 300 AM/PM (detoxifies liver, antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals, protects cells from damage, can cross the brain barrier, energy)

Biotin – 5 (AM) (healthy hair/nails)

B-6 (P5P50 activated B-6 -- AM (healthy heart)

B-12 – 1000 sublingual -- AM (boosts energy)

C-1000 w/Bioflavonoids 1000 (AM) (enhances immune system, reduces recurrence of cancer)

Calcium – 1200 softgel w/D 800 -- AM (increases bone density)

Chromium – 400 mcg -- PM (boosts energy, maintains sugar levels)

Co-Enzyme Q-10 – 150 -- AM/PM (enhances immune system, prevents cancer cell proliferation,energizes, healthy heart, good gums)

D-3 – 1000 (AM) (bones)

DL-Phenylalanine – 500 (appetite suppressant, mood enhancer)

DIM-PLUS (Diindolylmethane) – 100 -- AM/PM (metabolizes estrogen) GOOD FOR "ME" -- as ER/PR-

E – 400 X 3 -- 2 - AM + 1 - PM (healthy heart, relieves hot flashes, immune booster, inhibits metastases, decreases tumor burden)

Echinacea – 300 w/golden seal – 100 -- AM/PM -- l wk on/1 wk off (staggered w/Thymulus) (immune booster)
Thymulus – 750 w/Astragalus – 250 -- AM/PM -- 1 wk on/1 wk off (staggered w/Echinacea/goldenseal) (immune booster)

Evening Primrose Oil -- 1000 (relieves hot flashes, downregulates HER2 by binding to extra cellular HER2 receptor, down regulates internal proliferation)

Exhilarin – 615 Holy Basil Leaf Extract, Ashwagunda Root Extract (AM/PM) (relieves hot flashes, ENERGIZES)

Fennel (Seed) – 480 X 1 AM/1-2PM (relieves gas, stomach pain, spasms, helps rid intestinal tract of mucous)

Flaxseed Oil – 1000 + -- AM/PM (heart healthy, anti-cancer, detoxifies, improves brain function, helps painful, severely dry eyes since Taxotere ’98) NOTE: I AM ER/PR-!

Ginkgo Biloba Extract – 60 -- AM/PM (mental alertness)

Grapeseed Extract 150 -- AM (anti-oxidant, can cross blood-brain barrier and protect
brain and spinal nerves against free radical damage, enhances anti-tumor effect, protect liver, strengthen connective tissue, including heart system, supports immune
system and slows aging)

Green Tea Extract Reservatol – 200 -- PM -- or drink 3 cups daily (anti-oxidant, heart
healthy, anti-cancer)

L-Carnithane Fumerate – 500 --AM/PM– empty stomach (amino acid, assists in gastro
absorption, energy, heart, assists weight loss, immune booster)

L-Glutamine – 500 --AM – empty stomach (amino acid, assists in gastro absorption, energizes)

L-Lysine – 500 --AM – empty stomach (amino acid, assists in gastro absorption,
energizes, lowers triglyclerides)

Magnesium – 200 and Potassium – 545 -- PM (bone healthy, helps sleep, regulates

bowels, energiezes, healthy heart, lowers blood sugar and triglycerides,
raises good cholesterol, prevents stroke)

NADH – 5 Co Enzyme 1 AM/PM --on empty stomach, 1/2 hr before eating)
(relieves chronic fatigue/ENERGIZES, improves mental acuity. DNA repair. good for muscle/joint pain)

OMEGA 3 -- MEGA EFA (OMEGA-3 EPA (800) & DHA (400) -- AM/PM (suppreses
tumors, inhibiting their growth, may slow or prevent recurrence of cancer,
improves blood glucose, anti-inflammatory properties) NOTE: I add 1 pill when having belly pain...

PERFUSIA SR (L-Argenine) – 350 --AM (EJECTION FRACTION elevator, strengthens heart)

<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><DIV>Phyto Formula – 1 scoop of soy lechitin powder. Spirulina barley grass powder, tomato
powder, wheat grass powder + MULTIPLE powdered FRUIT/VEG anti-cancer lycopenes and antioxidants … in 8 oz potassium rich OJ (relieves hot flashes, promotes ENERGY BIG TIME, boosts immune system and mental clarity, helps regulate bowels)
+ 1 banana a day for potassium/strength/energy

Ask your onc. how long your chemo takes to work before it is broken down in the liver. I stopped taking supplements 3 days before chemo and started 3 days after. Q10 has a half life of 30 hours so I wanted to have it drop by 1/2 x 1/2 so that it didn't interfere with the taxol. taxol I believe exerts its cancer killing effects within 24 hours after administration.

I also took reishi extract in week 2 and to up my white blood cell count..worked very well.

cheers
Jackie

Messages from
D Scott Cunningham MD, PhD
Site Editor, MDLinx Oncology
http://her2support.org/vbulletin/mht...mp_logos/1.gif Vitamin C Antagonizes Cancer Chemotherapeutics 10/2/2008

Using a murine model, researchers at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have shown that vitamin C decreases the efficacy of cancer chemotherapeutic agents. While the researchers anticipated that only those agents which utilized oxygen free radicals as a means to invoke apoptosis would be affected, it was shown that all chemotherapeutic agents tested were so affected. Specifically, tumor cells pre-treated with vitamin C exhibited 30-70% less killing than untreated tumor cells.

See new article on walnuts

Many oncs don't know too much about vitamins, supplements and the protected zones around your infusion days...

My nutritionist is Dr. Dan Labriola in Seattle. Here's an article about him and his contact info. He is one of VERY few foremost experts in this area. I do phone consults with him or his partners (Dr Bufi and Dr Pratt) at least once a year.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...uropath24.html
http://www.cancure.org/dr_labriola.htm
http://www.nwnaturalhealth.com/providers.html
http://www.nwnaturalhealth.com/faqs.html
http://browse.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ath=Dan+Lab...

Good work, Brenda, in posting these links.

VERY interesting info from the first link:

"In 1999, Labriola and Dr. Robert Livingston, a cancer specialist at the University of Washington, reported in the journal Oncology that patients undergoing certain kinds of chemotherapy who took anti-oxidant supplements suffered much poorer outcomes than patients who didn't take anti-oxidants. Other popular anti-oxidants include vitamins A, B-6, selenium and many herbs.
"I don't recall if there were any deaths in this group, but long-term survival was certainly worse," Labriola said."

Dr. Livingston was MY med onc until he left for Arizona a couple of years ago. When I went on chemo in 2000 he asked me to bring in all supplements I was taking and told me which I could still use and what to discontinue. I felt he knew what he was talking about, but did not know at the time of his linking up with Labriola.

I am just one of his patients who misses him greatly.

Maybe it is time to look up Dr. Labriola and his colleagues. His office is practically next door to my regular physician.

Lucky you Steph! I wish I could go in person! But they take really good care of me by phone. I am not as compliant as I should be, as I have been a very lazy vitamin taker the last 6 months... but I have a consult with Dr Pratt (one of Dr Labriola's partner docs, as he is too booked up right now) tomorrow and will see what new and exciting things she has in store for me...

I have a feeling that supplements during treatment may interferr with tx. drugs. This was evident clincially with vit. c, as demonstrated in studies. If you want to use supplements wait until after tx.

Or consult with an expert like Dr Labriola... he told me to steer clear of vit c and most anti-oxidants while in treatment, over 4 years ago. He has a very specific plan of which vits you can and can't take while on different treatments. For the last 18 months, I was not allowed to be on Multis or B complex, or anything with folic acid, while on Xeloda... I am just now allowed to add my multis back in. He is very conservative with supplements and is constantly working with other docs around the world (has been for 20 years) to refine and study what is safe and not safe in the world of complimentary medicine...

Is a typical multivitamin hazardous?

When I was on chemo, my onc. told me absolutely no vitamins, supplements etc. of any kind - he did not want me even taking my cranberry extract supplement for UTIs - I think most oncs are firm on this - you want that poison to work as well as possible - I stopped taking everything until I was on Herceptin only, and even then I went over it all with my onc.

all the best
caya

Here is a link to an article regarding vitamins and supplements in the current Cure Magazine.

http://www.curetoday.com/currentissu...ood/index.html

It is a great publication and is free to all cancer patients.

I have not read thru all the responses - just wanted to mention that my doc who has me on a million supplements said that MOST doctors do not understand the pharmacology of the different chemotherapies and assume they all work with free radicals. He said regarding supplements it depends case by case what kind of chemo you are on and how that works. That will dictate the supplements that will compliment treatment.

I do not understand the complex issues but I do read all the postings and discuss them with him. He is an MD with a PhD in pharmacology and a specialty in integrative oncology. Phew - that's a mouthful:)

I think it's important not only to discuss supplements with your docs but to get a good explanation of why or why not something is okay to take.

Flori

Is Potassium an antioxidant? Would it conflict with Xeloda?

Wish Things Were More Clear-cut

My oncological nutritionist specializes in integrative oncology, including meditation and guided imagery. I credit his wisdom, my incorporation of all his recommendations, and of course Herceptin with my miraculous results. Each and all contribute.

I simply worry about throwing out the baby with the bath water. Yes, first do no harm, but I am greatly disappointed in mainstream and top docs who are AFRAID of interactions. What may be enormously beneficial to a patient receiving chemo, whose immune system is under siege and needs assistance in strengthening their resistance is being lost, mostly out of fear and misunderstanding.

Just as anti nausea meds helped me not to puke my guts up, as pain killers eased the throbbing in body parts I never knew I had, supplements have served me well.

Finding a doc like Flori's, or mine, is difficult I know, but please try to keep on proactively searching for your guru.

Sent with love...

Web address:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/
081022164724.htm Cancer Treatment: How Eating Fruit And Vegetables Can Improve Cancer Patients' Response To Chemotherapy

ScienceDaily (Oct. 24, 2008) — The leading cause of death in all cancer patients continues to be the resistance of tumor cells to chemotherapy, a form of treatment in which chemicals are used to kill cells.
Now a study by UC Riverside biochemists that focuses on cancer cells reports that ingesting apigenin – a naturally occurring dietary agent found in vegetables and fruit – improves cancer cells' response to chemotherapy.
Xuan Liu, a professor of biochemistry, and Xin Cai, a postdoctoral researcher working in her lab, found that apigenin localizes tumor suppressor p53, a protein, in the cell nucleus – a necessary step for killing the cell that results in some tumor cells responding to chemotherapy.
The study, published in the online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, provides a novel approach to conquer tumor resistance to chemotherapy, and suggests an avenue for developing safe chemotherapy via naturally occurring agents.
Normally, cells have low levels of p53 diffused in their cytoplasm and nucleus. When DNA in the nucleus is damaged, p53 moves to the nucleus where it activates genes that stop cell growth and cause cell death. In this way, p53 ensures that cells with damaged DNA are killed.
In many cancers, p53 is rendered inactive by a process called cytoplasmic sequestration. Apigenin is able to activate p53 and transport it into the nucleus, resulting in a stop to cell growth and cell death.
"In therapy you want to kill cancer cells," explained Cai, the first author of the research paper. "But to stop cell growth and to kill the cell, p53 first needs to be moved to the cell's nucleus to function. Apigenin is very effective in localizing p53 this way."
Apigenin is mainly found in fruit (including apples, cherries, grapes), vegetables (including parsley, artichoke, basil, celery), nuts and plant-derived beverages (including tea and wine). It has been shown by researchers to have growth inhibitory properties in several cancer lines, including breast, colon, skin, thyroid and leukemia cells. It has also been shown to inhibit pancreatic cancer cell proliferation.
"Our study advocates the inclusion of vegetables and fruit in our daily diet to help prevent cancer," said Liu, the research paper's coauthor.
The National Institutes of Health supported the five-year study.
Next in their research Liu and Cai plan to design therapies for cancer by finding compounds that are like, but perform better than, apigenin.

Rich - potassium is a mineral found in bananas. It is not an anti-oxidant.