Arimidex/joint prob update
 

I have been on Arimidex since mid-May of this yr. By around 6 months started getting this "trigger-finger" in my thumb. I was almost ready to swtich to another AI, but I had acupunture done about 1 1/2 wks ago and it feels improved. It still locks, but it feels stronger and it has less discomfort.
I have some joint discomfort, but I only feel it at night when I wake up in the middle of the night. During the day I am pretty much fine except for the very limited motion in my left thumb only.
I do yoga 3 to 4 times per wk and I think that is helping overall with the joints.
Harrie

I have a real problem with the fingers on my right hand. The middle finger tends to feel like it is going to lock and the others are just really stiff. I don't know what to do.
I have an acupuncture appointment next week, so I'll see if he can help me.

Karen

Yes! My finger joints seemed to pop. I was afraid they would pop out of their sockets. Trigger finger is a good description. The oncologist's nurse practitioner nodded when I mentioned it. I've been on arimidex two years and, Glory Be, my side effects have eased up some.

When I wake up in the morning I feel 100 years old, but as the day goes
by I get younger. By bedtime, I am fine. I have been on Arimedex for one
year, four months. Exercise does help, its just that first step!!
patb

Hi Harrie! I'm sorry to hear about your joint pains (and the rest of you as well). I wish I could help more, but I'm glad the yoga is helping. Also, maybe a little T'ai Chi would help, too. And last, but not least, maybe get one of those warm foot-bath things. If you're feet are warm and relaxed, that feeling can transfer to the rest of your body. And my usual prescription of a nice, long hot bath along with scented candles and soothing music, as you visualize the aches and pains and worries and stress leaving your body and floating away. Love, Bill

Hi Harrie & Karen, I'm estrogen negative, so I have no experience with Arimidex or "trigger finger," but I'm wondering about trying acupuncture for osteoarthritis in my knee.

Can you give me any tips?

My right knee started bothering me last November and I started physical therapy a few weeks ago because the pain wasn't going away, but it doesn't seem to be helping much (an x-ray and MRI showed no cancer).

I'm considering acupuncture, which I've never tried before, and thought I'd ask my oncologist about it. She's very sharp, has a doctorate in microbiology for breast cancer studies and, as luck would have it, was also born and raised in China, and went to medical school there, too.

Any suggestions?

I've been on Aimidex 8 months and my right thumb is a mess, with all the fingers feeling stiff. I wrap my hand around a nice hot coffee mug before trying to bend that thumb. Pops like crazy for a few hours in the morning.

Would acupuncture be covered by insurance? Glad to know it gets better over time.

BB

The acupunture definitely helped my thumb feel stronger and more functional. It still does NOT bend without assistance. But, even with a stiff left thumb, I can still function and use my hands normally. I believe the acupunture opened up the channels and that is when it feels better. I would suggest trying it if you have not already. Also, if one acupunturist does not work well, try another person before giving up.

Thank you for all your responses! I appreciate it!
Harrie

Joint pains from Aromatase Inhibitors
 

Is it all aromatase inhibitors that cause joint pain?
I have been on Aromasin for three months.
I feel like the Tin Man who was caught out in the rain without his
can of WD 40.
I had my tx yesterday. I have Zometa and Herceptin every three weeks.
Afterward for 3-4 days have terrible joint pains. Anywhere where you have had a previous joint problem or arthritis , pain is magnified.
Has anyone else experienced these symptoms with zometa or
aromasin?
This is a wonderful web site, so many wonderful positive,intelligent
women. God Bless you all.
Anne C.

Anne C,
You can try switching to another AI. My good friend had significant joint problems with Arimidex and switched to Femera and is doing well. But I did hear that Femera has similar side effects as Arimidex.
Arimidex at this point for me is manageable. If it becomes more of a problem, my oncogist is suggesting I switch to Aromasin and try that.

I am not familiar with Zometa as far as it causing joint pain. As far as what I have experienced, Herceptin caused me minimal if any side effects and there was no joint discomfort.

Hope this helps you.
Harrie

Thanks for your input about acupuncture. I'm going to look into it. Joan

Hi everybody! Anne, my wife had Zometa once a month, and when she started, her doc. told her it was known to cause "flu-like" symptoms, and sure enough, it did, aches and pains.

Hi, I posted this on another similar thread, but can anyone tell me the "whys" behind the joint pain? Is it the lack of estrogen or some other thing associated with these drugs?

Thanks

TRS

Thank you all for your reply
 

Thanks you for your response to my question re: AI's
I take a multivit daily with Vit D 400u.
I also take omega 3 daily to try to lubricate joints.
Bill, the first time I had Zometa aprox 8 months ago, I had terrible
bone pain. I could not even stand my glasses to press on the bones
behind the ears. This lasted 4 or 5 days but each succesive time was
a little better, but I still have the bone andjoint pain ( more than usual) for 3-4 days after Zometa.
Does anyone take CoQ10 to help prevent CHF from Herceptin. IF so what
dose. I am presently taking 125mg CoQ10 daily

joint poppin' fingers lockin' - we got a CW song here!
 

It might just be that I am staying in the hotel in L.A. where they are hosting the auditions for Nashville Star for NBC on the country western song idea.

My only concern when it comes to my thumbs moving in and out of joint ( which does hurt! ) and my fingers locking is this: does it go away at the end of the 5 yrs and am I doing permanent damage by using my hands when they hurt so much, ignoring the pain. I doubt there are answers out there yet on this, but shouldn't we as a group let the AI people know this is a significant problem requiring their attention and answers?

Donna

Anne C, I know the CoQ10 is really good for the heart. I am not sure of the recommended dosage, but I know that there are others on this board that have this info. I believe there are other threads out there on the CoQ.
You might want to consider taking Vit3. It is 1000 IU. I take a total of about 1800 IU of vit D per day.

Count me in,AGAIN, on the joint pain. Arimidex since February 2006. I thought it was getting better while I was out on medical leave for recon (this Aug-Feb) however now that i am back to work (retail) I am in more pain as each day passes. Last night I did not sleep a wink....sigh...I have tried Armomasin and Tamoxifen...eat right ,take vitamins dont drink alcohol (maybe I should?). I also had one ovary removed last year due to a persistent cyst. Hair has thinned a great deal. Face is rounder, arms arm MUCH heavier ...I *think* my body is SCREAMING for Estrogen which ,alas,I cannot take. HOWEVER, one must wonder when if ever "quality of life" is ever enough of a reason to discontinue AI's prematurely (before 5 years are up)?
Harrie, I DID have trigger finger last year that miraculously went away?!
I wear a pain patch and take oral meds for "breakthrough".
Marcia

Ok, was going to keep quiet but I CAN'T.

I was ER/PR- (no AI's) and I have some serious joint inflammation. It began in my thumb (this is not meant to scare) and then wrists, elbow etc. Apparently(I say this because I had no idea) I had some arthritis in my hip at my first bone scan but 2 months after finishing chemo/herception I began severe hip problems only to have a total hip replacement. Shortly after my hip surgery every joint in my body swelled up to the point where I could barely move.

After my treatments I would swell put on weight not sure anyway i was much heavier for 3-4 days until I flushed it all thru but after hip surgery it became a permanent severe state.

This inflammation may be from being forced into menopause, or the combined effect of all treatment on my immune system I just don't know. It is just strange that so many of us are having joint pains.

Both my mom & mother-in-law have been on Tamoxifen with no complaints of joint or bone pains. My mom finished her 5 yrs. Tamoxifen and started Femara and began severe joint pains, she went off it they went away, tried again same problem. At this point I believe the dosage has changed and she seems to be okay.

Just my ramblin' 2 cents.

Mary

What is the "standard" response to women suffering with AI pain? Seems like there are some who try switching AI's, and others that just continue to live with the discomfort. Is there a standard amount of time that they say to try one before trying a different one?

Terri,
I think if one complains regularly to their Onc over siccessive visits a switch will be suggested...thats the only time frame I can think of.
Marcia

Mary, I was on Tamoxifen for 5 yrs and had absolutely no joint pain. In fact I had hardly any if any side effects.
Marcia, it sounds like the joint pain is from the Arimadex, is that correct? What were your side effects like from the Aromasin and how did they differ from the side effects from the Arimadex?
Just curious because in the future I may switch to Aromasin.

Aloha Harrie,
Yep, I think its from the Arimidex. Interestingly when I take my monthly Boniva (for bones) I have a 24 period that is very flu like. It seems everything I take now to prevent Cancer and or the side effects of TX causes bone related fatigue and pain. (I had severe pain w/ Taxol but on Herceptin it wasnt quite so pronounced).Just my 2 cents,Marcia

I can relate to the pain from Boniva. I ended up going to bed for the day. Also on Arimidex, so thats a double whammy . But it can be tolerated. Hugs and blessings, Jeanette

Seems like so little is known. Why do some women have pain and others not? (rhetorical question, I don't think there is an answer) Sort of like asking why some women recur and other do not.

Given that exercize is proven to help survival stats and to help control estrogen, etc. it's alarming that it might be prohibitive if these side affects get severe enough. But it sounds like some are getting benefit from yoga and the like.

TRS

I have been on Fosomax for osteopenia for at least 3 yrs now. I have never had any kind of bone discomfort from that medication.

Marcia, we sure do have a lot in common, don't you think? Esp now that we both had the DIEP so recently.

Hi Harrie!
We sure are similar!
You know before DX I weighed in at 130 (5 5 1/2) now I tip the scales at 155. I eat better now, dont smoke,take vitamins regularly ,exercize when I can ,and since 1/2 oophectomy chemop
ause I
cannot lose any weight. Its the darndest thing. I think if I do lose 15 lbs or so my joint pain will improve.

Marcia

Fish oil eg long chain Omega 3s are reported as assisting with arthritis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum


A meta-analysis of the analgesic effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation for inflammatory joint pain.
Goldberg RJ, Katz J.

Department of Psychology, York University, Toronto, ON, Canada.

Between 40% and 60% of Americans use complementary and alternative medicine to manage medical conditions, prevent disease, and promote health and well-being. Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (omega-3 PUFAs) have been used to treat joint pain associated with several inflammatory conditions. We conducted a meta-analysis of 17 randomized, controlled trials assessing the pain relieving effects of omega-3 PUFAs in patients with rheumatoid arthritis or joint pain secondary to inflammatory bowel disease and dysmenorrhea. Meta-analysis was conducted with Cochrane Review Manager 4.2.8. for six separate outcomes using standardized mean differences (SMDs) as a measure of effect size: (1) patient assessed pain, (2) physician assessed pain, (3) duration of morning stiffness, (4) number of painful and/or tender joints, (5) Ritchie articular index, and (6) nonselective nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug consumption. Supplementation with omega-3 PUFAs for 3-4 months reduces patient reported joint pain intensity (SMD: -0.26; 95% CI: -0.49 to -0.03, p=0.03), minutes of morning stiffness (SMD: -0.43; 95% CI: -0.72 to -0.15, p=0.003), number of painful and/or tender joints (SMD: -0.29; 95% CI: -0.48 to -0.10, p=0.003), and NSAID consumption (SMD: -0.40; 95% CI: -0.72 to -0.08, p=0.01). Significant effects were not detected for physician assessed pain (SMD: -0.14; 95% CI: -0.49 to 0.22, p=0.45) or Ritchie articular index (SMD: 0.15; 95% CI: -0.19 to 0.49, p=0.40) at 3-4 months. The results suggest that omega-3 PUFAs are an attractive adjunctive treatment for joint pain associated with rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, and dysmenorrhea.

RB,

If used as an adjunctive treatment are the dosages significantly higher than supplementation?

TRS

This is a useful link that might help. It is a paper by a doctor on dosages.

Fish oil: what the prescriber needs to know

Leslie G Cleland email, Michael J James email and Susanna M Proudman email

Rheumatology Unit, Royal Adelaide Hospital, North Terrace, Adelaide, Australia

"Investigations across a variety of inflammatory diseases have used doses of fish oil that provide daily intakes of LC n3 PUFAs that range from less than 1 g to more than 6 g [8]. Collectively, these studies indicate that the anti-inflammatory dose of fish oil requires delivery of 2.7 g or more of LC n3 PUFAs daily, and that higher doses are also safe and effective. A daily intake of 2.7 g EPA plus docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is provided by a daily dose of nine or more standard fish oil capsules, which typically contain 30% LC n3 PUFAs w/w. People who self medicate with fish oil generally take one or two capsules daily. This is insufficient for an anti-inflammatory effect but it may provide cardiovascular benefit."

http://arthritis-research.com/content/8/1/202

There are no definitive answers, and I am not an expert and cannot give specific advice. I can only point you to research.

Intake recommendations range from 300mg to about 2.7 grams of EPA and DHA Eg 1.4 each.

A trial suggested uptake drops of in women at about 2grams of DHA a day.

For me quality bottled is cheaper and a better option for higher dosages. Check the label for amounts of DHA and EPA. A mix of Cod liver and fish is prudent due to the A and D levels in cod liver.

The body stores the mother Omega 6 but not 3 so historic stores have to be factored in.

As illustrated by the above it is as much about too much Omega 6 as too little 3.

Long chain omega threes in fish oil can thin blood and cause problems for small number of people so please talk to your doctor about dietary change.

RB