Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I am HER2+, 2 years out from last chemo treatment. Chemo made me start menopause early, (I am 45 years old). I have major hot flashes and I am searching for something to help me. I am currently taking Effexor XL 75mg once a day. It helps some but was wondering if anyone else has tried other things. I have tried other meds but the Effexor has been the best so far. Any advice out there to keep me from exploding?

I got hot flashes through chemo. Did not take any meds, drank a lot of water through the day and had fans everywhere, big ones, little ones, everywhere!!


good luck

MCS ( maria)

Thanks Maria
 

I too have fans everywhere! How long did yours last? I am going on 2 years now.

At my last onc's visit, he told me he has a patient still having hot flashes. She's in her 80's!!!!! Sorry about the bad news....

My first dx was 2001, secondary..2003...( Lots of horrible treatment inbetween )
I will be 55 in january and still suffer terrible hot flashes, MANY a time, I feel as if I'm going to explode . At this present time, I am on Herceptin only. To read, that this could go on till the grand old age of 80..!!! Hey..!! That's a lot of SWEAT. Living in Scotland, could prove to be a bonus BRRRrrrrrrr....

Geraldine

natural progesterone
 

you could try natural progesterone cream......particularly if your tumour was pr-
it did wonders for my hot flushes. If you want to read Dr John lee's book "What your doctor may not tell you about breast cancer" he talks a lot about natural progesterone cream and how to use it. I have also read somewhere else that it may normalise the p53 tumour suppressor gene as well.
Jackie
Jackie

My solution to hot flashes was as simple as taking 15-20 tablets of the natural Sun Chlorella A supplement that was recommended to me by my holistic MD. It took about 2 weeks but I haven't had a hot flash again yet and I have been taking them for a year now. It works and Sun Chlorella is all natural and made from plants so healthy as well. It can be purchased as most health stores and at Whole Foods or online.

Hot Flashes
 

Hi

I have only just started my herceptin following 4 rounds of AC which put into early menopause I am 43.I have handled most of the treatments so far but it seems the hot flashes are something long term and Im having trouble dealing with them.I am new to all this and I am finding all the info and advice in here very valuable. I look forward to chatting with you all.

I found the menopause worse then the chemo. It has been 6 years now and I don't think they will ever go away!! I came out of menopause for a year after I finished the first round treatments but back in again when I relasped. I will try the greenies. I used to take them and still have a lot. So I will take them again to see if it helps. Patty H

Hi Patty
What are the greenies :)

The "greenies" are the Sun Chlorella tablets. They really worked for me but you have to be consistent in taking them. Happy to say I am hot flash free!

i'm glad to hear about the "greenie", i wish I would have known about this even before bc.

i''ve seen women go thru the hot flashes from mid 40s to mid 50s.

i guess if i get them at 80, it means i'm still alive surviving this beast and that would be ok :) i'll take hot before c anytime.

beofre bc, i would get them at night, midday, anytime. after the chemo, i usually got them a week after treatment, that is between treatment.

i'm on herceptin now and i get them during the day, every once in awhile but not at night anymore.

good luck

I think I will try the sun chlorella tablets, before I ask the dr. for effexor. I am only 40 and in medical menopause and my night sweats are like clock work, at least two every night at 3 and 6 oclock. My hot flashes during the day vary, some days I get alot and other days only acouple.

Thanks for the info.

I take 1/2 dose (36.5mg) of effexor in the AM and seems to work well. I found that if I took the full dose of 75mg I would get a little fuzzy in the head.
Just remember, if you do end up with Effexor, that you do not miss a day because you will go through "withdrawals". I was so dizzy I could not lift my head when I did not take it for 3 days. If you are on it, you will need to ween yourself off. (At least that is what the chemo nurse told me).
I have the doc order the 75mg tabs and I cut them in half. Its cheaper that way.

maria (MTS)

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Walmart has a Spring Valley Menopause Pack, estrogen free, that I have been taking for years and it works okay; I have symptoms in the late afternoons and at night on occasions.

Denise

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I think Spring Valley has black cohosh, which I thought was phytoestrogenic, which I understood to have the effect of estrogen.
I am looking for something to help me with some personal problems and looking for non estrogen supplements
I was told about Macafem.
do you or anyone knows about this macafem?
xo
maria (mcs)

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I have a bag of ground maca in my cupboard. I stopped using it as soon as I was diagnosed. (I hadn't used it for very long before I was diagnosed, so it should have had no impact on my cancer.)

The Macafem tablets contain 500 mg of maca. They do not appear to be standardized (although I'm not sure what they'd standardize for anyway.) That means each bottle of 100 tablets contains 50 grams for $28.95. You can buy a one pound (453.5 grams) bag of maca from Navitas Naturals for less than $20. It's a real pain to mix in smoothies and such, but a little bit of fat (like coconut or olive oil or even a nut butter) goes a long way to make it easier.

With that said, maca stimulates the hormones, so it is not recommended for women who have hormone-dependent breast cancer (see the Macafem faq, here: http://www.macafem.com/macafem-faq.htm).

Sage is another herb that's reputed to put an end to hot flashes, but the information on how it affects hormones is sketchy, at best. I know that Sarah's "Food for Breast Cancer" site recommends against it:

http://foodforbreastcancer.com/foods/sage

(And I stopped using it for that reason, although I was using it for memory effects, not for hot flashes, which I do not have. Yet.)

There is other research to indicate that the phytoestrogens in sage may not be a problem, but as she says, "there is not much interest in it among breast cancer researchers, so few studies are available."

I will try to post the sage monograph later if I can get the Natural Standard site to behave itself. Also, if I can find anything else that might be a safe and effective alternative, I'll post that too.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

My onc. put me on Clonidine 0.1 mg twice a day and I very rarely have hot flases.
Hope this helps.
Emelie

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Thank you Rhondalea,

I know of phytoestrogenic hebs: don quai, balck cohosh, gingko,ginseng,red clover and now macafem.
have also herd of DHEA but a woman I know went through a lot with it so she discontinued it.
Then there's testoterone cream and damiana, which don't have estrogen but have other problems
Like I said, I am er- but I am not taking any chances at all.

I am doing Replens and another product from KY called Liquibeads that look like giant vitamin e capsules. These keep me moist but it does nothing for the vagina atrophy and libido either. I do get very mild hot flashes yet once a month and I mark them on a calendar to keep track when they occur-about every 4 weeks, like a regular period or ovulation, so I can tell I still have a limited estrogen in my body.
I've had an endometrial ablation before bc, then i had ovaries removed after bc and have a dble mastectomy
so the search goes on.
we really need doctors that take a copmprehensive view at the disease and not just the medical part
Thank you for the info on macafem and your quick response. That little boy is adorable

xoxo
maria (mcs)

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Yeah, DHEA is probably not a good supplement for folks with cancer. I used to take 7-Keto DHEA, which is not converted into other hormones, but I'm not sure how effective it would be against hot flashes. There are some positive anecdotal reports out there, but it's not something I'd try again without the approval of my oncologist. Call me chicken.

Replens was utterly useless for me during chemo, so I won't use it ever again in my life even if I end up dry as the Sahara. After that debacle (and I gave it 2 months, which seems to me to be a fair trial), I decided not to bother with the KY product. Instead, I ordered something online called "Creme de la Femme" (http://www.amazing-solutions.com/). The company really needs to change the name of the product, because it would probably sell better, but it works pretty well. Coconut oil also works, although the application is slightly more problematic.

My onc said something about Astroglide, but I think she misunderstood what I was complaining about. On the other hand, it's probably possible to use the gel form in an applicator, so it might be worth a try.

There are a few other prescription solutions to hot flashes, here:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/466850

I'm not sure, though, that I'd be willing to put up with the side effects.

On behalf of the baby in the picture, I thank you. I think he's the most adorable small child in the world, but, of course, I'm prejudiced--he's my grandson. He was 18 months old in the picture, and he'll be three this St. Patrick's Day. Time flies....

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I am seven years out and still get very aggressive hot flashes - about every 1/2 hour. Sometimes I get a break for a couple of hours, then the cycle starts again.

About 3 years ago I started taking progesteron. I am ER-. This killed the hot flashes almost completely down to 2 a day. Once in the morning......and once after I have a shower. Very predictable.

There is a minority school of thought that says that progesteron without estrogen is sufficient - and in fact superior to the HRT's. There is very limited research indicating that ER- MIGHT be able to take progesterone with impunity. But no direct research as the legal risk at this point to directly investigate for the pharmaceuticals is too high. So this choice hasn't been directly explored for risk factors.

Another positive outcome is that taking progesteron REALY resolved some of my memory issues. Although this isn't an indicated outcome - I recently discovered research with mice indicates that progesterone improves their memory abilities.

I know I am not a mouse, but it certainly worked for me! In fact if I skip a day - I can tell.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Now that this thread has come up again, I'll add what I've learned lately. I'll never get caught up, but it's a start.

I decided to try KY Liquibeads after all (based on Maria's recommendation). Gift of the gods. Thank you, thank you.

I don't know if I'm having menopausal hot flashes or not. Everyone says, "You would know," but I've been having hot flashes and cold chills all my life because of my stupid thyroid, so how can I really tell?

With that said, I have burning ears, which I have read can be a symptom in lieu of or in addition to hot flashes. They get warm and tingly. They even look inflamed some of the time, although I didn't realize that until my internist asked me why my ears were bright red.

So, in addition to all the other supplements I pop daily, I added pine bark extract (pycnogenol), although my motivation to do so was not alleviation of menopausal symptoms (because I couldn't possibly have hot flashes, right?).

My preliminary results indicate pine bark alleviates the ear burning, some of the overly warm episodes (so I guess they must be hot flashes, after all) and (hallelujah!) tinnitus. It is not a phytoestrogen, and I can't find any contraindications for hormone positive breast cancer patients. It is an antioxidant, so it should be avoided during chemo.

Here's MSKCC monograph:

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/pine-bark-extract

Medline also has a few words:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...ural/1019.html

If anyone has an interest in trying it, I'll download and post the NS monograph, which has far more information.

Oh, and here's the sage monograph I mentioned in an earlier post:

dropbox.com/sh/efvo0bbrmf9fi5h/oLVf-Yg3jT/Sage.pdf

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I wanted to revive this thread for the conversation that occurred at the end, and then I realized I could also be topical.

First, the topical. I never really went through menopause. My last period started the day I started chemo. I never had another period after that. I've never had a hot flash or any other symptom that would normally be attributed to menopause. I was just pre- and then I was post-.

Now that my brain is better, I realize that all along, I have taken pine bark, which, when processed in a specific way and patented, is known as Pycnogenol®. Here's an abstract. I tried to get the study, but when I clicked the link, it wasn't where it was supposed to be, so I'll keep trying.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22108479

What's nice about pine bark/Pycnogenol® is that it's not a phytoestrogen, so it's safe for those of us with hormone receptive positive cancers.

I take the Vitacost pine bark. Two capsules a day. I've never actually tried Pycnogenol® so I don't know if it is more effective. What I'm using has been plenty effective for me.

Now, to the next thing. I had a bad PAP in June, so I had to go back for a follow-up. It was fine--most likely the bad result was because I am dry like the Sahara. So I asked the doctor what to do. We went over the non-starters again, and then the light bulb went off (in her head, not mine). She gave me a sample of something called Luvena (Laclede, Inc., creator of Biotene, which is now owned by GSK). Turned out that the sample box was empty (ha, ha), so I gritted my teeth and bought a package.

Recommended dosing is every 3 days but the disclaimer is that if that's too much, you can lengthen the time. I use it every 5 days. The applicator is ridiculous, and I have no idea why they made it that way. It's best applied at night when you're already lying down and not planning to get up, but you should wear a panty liner to bed, because even then, it leaks a bit. (If you stand up, it's a mess.)

The FDA is now after Laclede for labeling violations. Go FDA. <sigh>

http://www.medicaldaily.com/fda-look...ish-fry-290970

There are also sharks in the water:

http://audetlaw.com/investigations/l...investigation/

With full disclosure done, this stuff really works. It's like being normal again. No discomfort, and none of the yuck factor of Replens. (I told my doctor that Replens claims the discharge is old vaginal lining and that it will eventually stop. She just shook her head.)

Luvena is not cheap--I paid $21 at Walgreens for a box of six applicators. When I got home, I googled. The best price is available at drugstore.com--$15.99. If you order 3, you get free shipping. If you put it on auto-order (which I did), you get a 10% discount on subsequent orders. I think it's worth buying a box at retail to see if it works first, though.

You can also buy it direct. Here's the website with more information and a "Buy Now!" link at the bottom. They offer free shipping, but the price is higher ($19.99) than drugstore.com (still cheaper than retail).

http://www.luvenacare.com/

The doctor also gave me a sample of the wipes. Don't waste your money.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Hi,
I was 43 y.o. when the "chemopause" hit and I had crying spells and hot flashes. Onc said to take vitamin E supplements and they went away within a few days,...

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

How much Vitamin E did you take, Catia?

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I don't remember how much Vitamin E but do remember they were gel caps and I took three of them daily (lol, I realize that's not much help).

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I found the hot flashes to be almost as bad as the treatments as I threw up at the onset of the flash and had them about once every 5-10 minutes. I spent months throwing up from them. I did go on Effexor I believe it was 150 mg in the end. It helped considerably. I'm so thankful I have them now about twice a day only since I turned 50. They are mild and don't involve puking. It's just an annoyance now.

I believe when you're young, pre-menopausal and thrown into menopause, it's so much worse. The thing is, we can't predict it or even get other's experience. We're all going to be different.

I do hope you get some relief. I fought Effexor, but I couldn't function w/o being on something heavy duty.

Hugs,
-Julie

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I have decided to wean off the Effexor, 75 mg has not been much, if any help. I'm starting the pine bark extract with the blessing on my doc. I know Rhondalea uses it, anyone else out there that can offer some encouraging results with this. Doc wants to try nerontin but is ok with me tring this first. Started 100 mg yesterday.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I did not like the side effects with Effexor but my hot flashes caused me to vomit and I was a complete mess. Neurontin did nothing to help me, but Lexapro has been a godsend. Very minimal hot flashes and no side effects (boyfriend sees a very positive change). Most of us hate to take more meds, so keep us posted on how its working for you. Good luck!

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

I hope the pine bark works as well for you as it has worked for me, Coux. I started it before I started Tamoxifen, so I have no idea how long it takes to work, but this abstract says 8 weeks. They were using Pycnogenol®, but it really is the same thing. The difference between them and me is that I take 100 mg twice a day.

Supplementation with Pycnogenol® improves signs and symptoms of menopausal transition

Pine bark also gets good reviews for improving cognitive function. Really makes me wonder what kind of mess I'd be without it.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

hated Effexor and it's a bear to get off of. takes a long time (you get head rushes). i researched this issue heavily. i found that Ditropan has helped me. it real purpose is for women for bladder control, off-label is that it can decrease hot flashes. and that's what it did for me. i was suffering horrendous numbers of hot flashes and night sweats - i remember i counted 40 once - and they weren't flashes either, they sometimes lasted a while (especially at night). Ditropan cut them down to about 10 per day. i was seriously on the verge of going off Tamoxifen, i was so distraught. i also have a hand fan in my purse and fans bedside and on my desk. i am supposed to finally end Tamoxifen in june and i pray that the hot flashes subside or if it's not too much to ask, resolve completely. i got my first one during my first chemo, only 5 minutes in. i asked what the hell was that? joy joy. that, my friend, is your life from here on out. i can find the ditropan study if you like. valerie

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

here is the article. 70% of the women responded positively to varying degrees. it does not have a lot of side effects (bonus) though you need to drink more water because it's drying, but again, water is great for you so no big deal. ditropan is oxybutynin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17204995

valerie

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

V-ness, thank you for the information on Ditropan. I can not open the link to the study but I will look into it. For now, I have been on the Pine Bark ~ 7 weeks, increased to 200mg daily ~ 3 weeks ago. I think I'm seeing some minor improvement but I'm still hopeful that it will continue to improve. I had 3 "fair" nights in a row twice since being on the pine bark, I get all excited, then a horrendous night like last night... for ~ 3 hours I broke into sweats about every 20 min.
I'm planing on sticking with the pine bark for now, daytime flashes seem a bit less intense as well. I will explore ditropan just in case.

Re: Any advice for Hot Flashes after chemo?
 

Just wanted to follow-up about my mention of Luvena for dryness.

Back in January, Leclede entered into a consent order with the FDA that allows them to continue to market all their Luvena products so long as they remove the unproved claim (that it's a prebiotic) from the labeling. That's done, and Luvena is widely available.

FDA Link:
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm432505.htm
Leclede Link:
http://www.luvenacare.com/letter.html

The body wash is also nice.


Note to Coux re pine bark: I'll try to figure out what else it is I'm taking. It seems to me there's something that makes the pine bark work even more effectively, but I don't remember which something it is. I'm glad you're having some success with it, but I do hope it starts to work a little better for you. Random relief would drive me crazy, because I hate not knowing what to expect.