Age at Diagnosis Poll Ponderings
 

I decided to post this again separately here as well as in the thread in the poll:

My thought is that perhaps the reason this is a younger population than that of general bc is because of the faster rate of cell replication. That would also mean that (as one other person here speculated) HER2 cancers probably don't take years to grow. That would mean that the traditional imaging intervals would be too late or too long for us -- and for those who have delayed imaging or less frequent imaging initially, a later and more dangerous diagnosis.

I was wondering about the relationship to hormonal levels and why there are older people who do end up HER2 long after normal menopause age. I know that the older we are, the more our cells get genetically confused and make a mess of things. But I am still not sure if that is enough of a reason for anyone who is older to end up being HER2....

I happen to have a strong family history of bc on both sides plus ovarian CA but tested entirely negative on BRCA 1 and 2, and in addition, although none of my family who were affected were ever tested for HER2, they were ALL over 50 at diagnosis. I'm sure there is significance to that, although I can't quite figure it all out.

AlaskaAngel

P.S. It is also interesting to note that the number of BRCA positives who are also HER2 positive is far lower than the general bc population, particularly BRCA 1. So most of us apparently are not BRCA positive...

Regarding genetics and breast cancer
 

My oncologist told me that the chances of my breast cancer being geneticly inherited were extremely slim due to the HER2 status. According to her, most HER2 cancers are not genetically inherited, therefore most people with HER2 breast cancer will test negative for BRAC! and BRAC2.

P.S. I was Stage III when diagnosed and nothing other than fibrocystic disease showed up on any of my previous mamos which I had every year.

Hey Angel,


Its been a long time since we have written. I absolutely agree that Her2 cancers do not take a long time to grow. I was diagnosed 7 months after a clean mammogram (that didn't even have calcifications) with a 1.9 cm tumor. So, I was not surprised about its aggressive pathology. I tested negative for BRCA 1 & 2. My mom (and 3 of her sisters) had bc but the "plain old type". All diagnosed in their early 70's (one sister was 80). Small mammo detected types, node negative and highly ER/PR positive but not Her2. (I was 45 at diagnosis - your poll's most popular age range). My dad's mom and her sister died from ovarian cancer. They were both in their early sixties but I don't know anything else after that as it was over 30 yrs ago.

At ASCO, I went to all the BRCA presentations and "heritary" influence papers. BRCA 1 bc tends to be triple negative and BRCA 2 type tends to be luminal B (hormone positive but not highly positive - ie: ER 30% PR50% vs in the 70% - 95% range for Luminal A types).

Her2 is not common AT ALL in BRCA mediated cancer but being p53 positive (highly positive) is. For the record, p53 is the tumor suppressor gene.

Now for women like you and me - who have strong family ties to bc but are not BRCA 1 & 2, there is always that there may be a BRCA 3, 4, 5 etc that haven't been discovered but they also were talking about low penetrance genes (CHEK 1 and others). It was kind of a "straw that breaks the camel's back" scenario. Lots of genes come into play and together get damaged and then there is the straw that breaks the camels back. However, I did talk to one of these presenters who told me that, in the case of my mom and her sisters (no bc before them and out of 17 female cousins from my mom's sisters and brothers, I am the only one to get bc and I am in the youngest 20%) that my mom and her sisters may have an early environmental exposure that caused their bc (for example, all the ones that got bc worked in the steel mills as teenagers (another sister did too but she died of a heart attack at age 62 and since they all got it at age 70 - who knows about her and what would have happened).

I think Her2 is a spontaneous mutation that occurs but that other factors may come into play to help it along. Especially that many of us get it right when our hormones are erratic (menopause) or during or right after pregnancy (another hormone wacky time). It may be a hyper estrogen response or something (even for those that are ER negative). Just thinking out loud here.

Kind regards

Becky

Hey Becky and Angel!

I am pondering as well, and my head is reminding me what the Seattle docs told me....that Her2 type cancers cluster environmently...ie, the most significant clusters are in Long Island Sound, Cape Cod and San Francisco Bay area. If this is the case, it seems like it is an environmental factor that is doing the triggering...what do you think?
Love Kim from CT

maybe...
 

Maybe we need a poll about where we are from, as well, to check for enviromental patterns. I'll set one up, if someone could direct me to where I could find the poll creating feature on the site.

Suggestion
 

Becky,

I especially want to thank you for the your attendance at ASCO and for sharing ideas from the many exposures to information you took on while you were there.

My suggestion is that it might be worthwhile to consider a chat for questions and comments about ASCO, and/or another a chat about the poll.

The question of environment is interesting. There are concerns by location, but also there are concerns about the increasing broader creation of all kinds of estrogenic substances by mankind, so I don't know if we can really isolate "environmental" causes from that.

I too think there is something in your ending comment, Becky (repeated below). But there is the question I can't figure out.... What causes those long-past-menopausal-age HERs?

"I think Her2 is a spontaneous mutation that occurs but that other factors may come into play to help it along. Especially that many of us get it right when our hormones are erratic (menopause) or during or right after pregnancy (another hormone wacky time). It may be a hyper estrogen response or something (even for those that are ER negative). Just thinking out loud here."

AlaskaAngel

I was diagnosed 6 mos after a clean mammogram...which I had been getting every 6 mos due to my Moms breast cancer....hers was a different type....I live in Illinois but within 20 miles of 3 different nuclear plants...who knows!

Do you think that more women 40 to 50 may use the this message board than say 50 to 80 year olds? Older women may not be as internet savy as the younger ones. Statistics still say bc strikes more women over 50. I was 51 at diagnosis and am Her2 +++.

Good point dskdrive!

My question.

Are these not relatively wealthy areas?.

Do they have a higher than average level of health concious exercising population?.

What proportion of that population are on "low fat" diets, subsituting staturates with polyunsaturates and margerines (trans fats), have low levels of oily fish intake (fat avoidance), low meat intake, rarely eat offal etc. The result is a large imbalance between omega threes and sixes. It is a question of balance not overall quantities.

Ironically those on poorer diets lots of meat (which contains some omega three even if grain fed and so less than times gone by, and hamburgers processed meats can contain everything including offal which is higher in threes) etc may have a slightly better omega three six balance although likely to be well outside the optimal balance, and hence the general trend.

I am not discounting other environmental factors, but am becoming more and more convinced that the imbalance of omega three and six is capable at a medical level of substantially increasing the risk of a number of cancers and medical conditions including BC.


RB

I also have a strong history of BC. MY sister was 37 and my grandmother was 43 when diagnose. Both died of BC. My grandmothers sister also had BC; however she was 70 when DX (still alive at 90). My sister was only 40 and my grandmother was 53 when they died. My sister was stage 1 with no lymph node involvement at initial diagnosis. She died before they were testing for HER2 status. I know she was ER+.

I also was tested for BRCA1&2 and was negative. My sister’s original status scares me. The doctors are quick to give a good prognosis if you are node negative; however a triple + diagnosis is only 15% of all breast cancer cases. I often wonder if the tamoxifen made my sister metastasize or maybe the lack of herceptin. I start tamoxfen this week as there is not another standard treatment for pre menopausal women. My doctor assures me that all the testing done where tamoxifen activates cancer cells are on animals and not human testing. As part of my work benefits, we have a research group that will research published medical journals for information and they could not find anything on tamoxifen activation.



Environmental issue may be the cause of my BC. My mother took DES when she was pregnant with me and my sister.



As far as a clean MAMO, that is definitely NOT my case. My tumor was high on my chest and not really where a MAMO caught it every time but there was a large white are on my mamos for 5 years that was never investigated until it was palatable and then it was IDC. Ihave very dense breasts so the mamos were not easy to read. I will now be more aggressive with my own mamos.



RB, I can say that while I was not overweight and did try to walk daily before I was diagnosed. I did not watch what I ate and yes, I did eat omega 6 and too much sugar, processed foods, white flours etc.

I was diagnosed with a small, 7mm, tumor, ER+,PR+,Her2+...no history of bc., at age 55...factors preceding the diagnosis...STRESS+++ house was hit by hurricane in FL (Aug. 2004)while I was on vacation in WA (yes...near Seattle). Ended up moving to Seattle area in Oct. 2004. Had been on hormone replacement therapy for 7 years (dr said because of no hist. of bc, and I had been diagnosed with osteoporosis that it would be to my best interest...ha!).In Apr. 2005, when I had my first check-up with new doc here in WA, I told her of my gut feeling that HRT was a bad thing...she agreed so I stopped taking them...and scheduled the mammo that revealed the 'spot'.
An interesting note, I had a discussion not too long ago with my onc. about the prevalence of bc in Seattle area, also New England, San Fran etc. and she thought perhaps being areas of higher incomes, perhaps higher levels of education, that more women had gone the HRT route???
I was also exposed to aerial pesticide spraying as a kid in MA in the 1950's.

Just some thoughts from me on the subj!!!

Re HRT interesting thought.

I suppose this would depend on the age groups.

Have regional figures been analysed by age group / type?

RB

As to BRCA testing, I had this conversation with SueF, founder of the FORCE website, and she said according to a highly respected oncologist, her2+ and BRCA1+ is rare, but the rate of BRCA2+ and her2+ is about the same as the overall rate of BRCA2. Meaning that about 20% (or whatever the number is) of all BRCA2+ are also her2+. That seems high too me as I know almost no one that is both.

Demographics
 

I live in good old Marin County which is famous for it's high rate of bc.

Most of my doctors strongly believe that demographic factors are a very strong factor in our high cancer rates.

We have more advanced (time consuming) education, and hence fewer pregnancies. Many women postpone childbearing
I had only one child when I was 24. I've heard that pregnancy is protective.

We drink more. We are right next door to the wine country. I was never a big drinker but around here you're a weirdo if you don't have at least a glass of wine with friends, at dinner or possibly on Friday night.

Those are two big possible differences. I always wonder why. Sometimes it really eats away at me, is it my fault, was it something I did wrong? Or could it be environmental, was it that transformer outside my bedroom window where I grew up in Pacifica. It's hard not to know why. Could it be a combination of genetics and environment and demographics?

My nephew developed Hodgkin's Lymphoma (he is doing great!) so maybe there is some genetic component.

It's late, goodnight.

Mary

I am in central Indiana, farm country. I had never paid attention before, but I know in the almost 2 years since my diagnosis there have been 4 others diagnosed in this area.

I have been wondering these types of questions for some time I will try a Reader's Digest version of my family experiences & the area I live in.

Paternal

2 aunts bc deaths -1 Inflammatory deceased 54yrs old, 2nd unknown was mentally & physically impaired, Medicaid patient 1 lump removed path. said neg. for cancer a year later another lump removed family informed neg. again - deceased approx. yr. later of b.c.

Cousin, diagnosed w/ ovarian cancer before wedding at 26 yrs. Another cousin diagnosed before her wedding at 25yrs. w/ non-hodgkins lymphoma. Brother diagnosed at 23yrs. w/ non-Hodgkins lymphoma. All born w/in a year of each other at same hospital.

There is some genetic mutation (maybe environmental) at work. I have not been able to get a hold of 1 aunts records to find out if ER+ or Her+ wondering if that was tested she passed away in 1995.

I tested neg. for BRAC I & II but as the genetist indicated these are the only genes they know about or can test for right now.


Maternal

Mom diagnosed at 62 w/ ER+ bc after some years of HRT. No other noted history of bc in her family.

W/in the past 2 years there have been at least dozen women I know diagnosed; one of which was a roomate of mine.

Born & raised in Detroit.

I was diagnosed with IBC last year at age 52. The IBC did not show up on my mammogram. Just my luck this type of bc rarely shows on mannograms. There is no history of cancer on either sides of my parent's families (except for my dad who died from stomach cancer, which I believe was totally caused by his work environment since he worked for an aerospace company). I was raised at the northern end of the San Fernando Valley near Los Angeles. Sometimes I feel like it's just the luck of the draw! Anyway, my last Herceptin treatment was in February 2006; my chemo was over in July 2005 and my mastectomy was in November 2005. 15 nodes removed. Path report showed no sign of cancer in breast tissue or nodes. I'm cancer-free and owe it t!o Herceptin

Enviromental causes of increased estrogen levels?...
 

When I think back to my research some months ago concerning how her2 is stimulated, I recall that it is an excessive estrogen state that causes it via the G cycle. It's easy to see how the premenopausal women may be at a hyper-estrogen state via pregnancy, miscarriages and perhaps the pill. However, in the case of menopausal women, I wonder if there are enviromental causes such as pesticides, chemical food contaminates or even post menopausal hormonal therapy that kicks the estrogen levels in overdrive to stimulate her2. Chlordane, DDT and other chlorinated pesticides may be stored in body fat and have a cummulative impact, years later sometimes, altering the delicate hormonal estrogen balance and metabolism.

By the way, I was diagnosed a few years after a miscarriage, followed by a full-term pregnancy so I was probably in a premenpausal hyper-estrogen state. Even so, many women have pregnancies and miscarriages and don't end up with bc. So I think that I must have had ineffective pro oncogenes and tumor suppressor genes, especially since both of my grandmothers had bc and died of
it. Great prodigy, sure glad I have all boys.

Robin how does this hyper estrogen state account for many her2 tumors coming out estrogen negative? Curious. Have you crossed this in your research?

Please excuse me for not having the source available, but I recall reading that the estrogen receptor migrates out of the nucleus to reside in the cytoplasm in the estrogen negative state. So the receptor is still there, it just dosen't drive the cellular activity. Apparently, once her2 is switched on, the possiblity of this migration out of the nucleus is much more common than not since most her2+ are estrogen negative.

By the way folks, just a last minute thought more on this topic. I wonder if her2 can lay dormant in the body for years and then be triggered. I know that most her2s relapse the first few years after dx. so it seems unlikely that this would happen often, if at all.

Hi;

This is such an interesting post! I was diagnosed in Oct 04 at 55, stage 3c, ER/PR+ (not sure how strongly as it isn't indicated on my path), tumor to supraclavicular node. I live in a small town in a rural area of Ontario along the St. Lawrence. The town is about 4000 to perhaps 5000 if you include the close rural housing. At the time of my diagnosis I knew of 2 active cases...including my friend...of IBC, another 4 ductal and one lobular (a friend who lives in the rural area but just outside of my district). I know of another her2+ who is from the town but now lives about 30 miles away. Plus there are many others since that time.....I know of about 6 who have been diagnosed since then. These are just the women I know or have heard of. There are likely others and this is not including other forms of cancer. I have heard that my area has the highest % of cancer in our province. The problem with mapping where we live is that many do not use the net. I know of only one friend with bc who uses the net to research....perhaps it's a rural thing but many of those I know really just listen to their doctors and pray....even young women. Then I think....."why and die"....an old saying I have always lived by. Perhaps our energy should just go into the question of "what do we do now?"

Cathy

I'm from the Philadelphia area and I'm 63. I was diaganosed at 61. I am really surprised at the young age of most of the HER2 women as I've been reading your replies. Most interesting!

On Herceptin since November.
HER2/3+srtong... ER/PR neg. 1.2 cn.

As for older women using the internet, it would be food for thought.

Maggie

IBC on the rise?
 

I was diagnosed in 2004 with stage IIIb her2 +++ er- pr- Inflammatory Breast Cancer. Underwent 4 rounds of Taxotere/carbo plus herceptin every 3 weeks, had mastectomy w/ 19 nodes removed-4 positive at UCLA. 6 weeks later there was a new tumor above the incision. Radiation 36X, weekly taxol low dose for 5 months with herceptin. Skin rashes appeared and 33X more radiation and six months more of taxol/herceptin weekly. I now am on Avastin and Herceptin only for the past 10 months and I'm doing great (Avastin and herceptin every 2 weeks). I am now interested in Tykerb if needed , does anyone know about it? Since being diagnosed (Iam 58 today) I have met several other women newly diagnosed with her2 plus IBC. I also take large doses of vitamin C, Lysine, Proline, Taurine, as well as a balanced diet of greens and vitamins. I take 9000 mg of C and Lysine, 8000 mg of proline, 1500 mg of magnesium, vitamin D3 and calcium. I stay away from all soy products, as I was a Vegan for 25 years and lived on lots of soy. There are many studies now linking it to breast cancer. I also take 2 drops of Lugol's solution (an iodine supplement) because my Oncologist is doing research on the link between Iodine deficiency and Breast and prostate cancer. I'm happy I found this site and wish you all the best.

I was diagnosed at age 52. I'm 55 now.

poll ponderings
 

I was 43 and had clean mamos for years -no family history - I live in westchester county a very affluent area 30 miles north of Manhattan - both my oncologist and radio oncologist said the bc in my age group is in" epidemic proportions" for my age group - I have 4 friends alone - same age range- that are going thru this.
scary.......

Just because they know that HER2 status is slim in BRCA genetic mutations, doesn't mean you don't have a genetic mutation. Family history is definetly worth saying you have a genetic issue.

For me, I found out my family had a p53 mutation. 10 years ago, they tested the same gene, and didn't find the mutation. So just because they can't find it now, doesn't mean it isn't there.

My thoughts though, only get tested if you are trying to figure out what children you are having to monitor. The test could drastically cut your bills if you don't have to watch out for your children developing cancer. That's what we did for ours. I didn't even bother getting tested, cause we knew my daughter who developed cancer at age 5, would have my gene. So it was more of a device for my other children to see who was at risk. Just my thoughts...

Also, the whole 5-10% you see for their estimated "genetic breast cancers" I think is totally wrong. We have just scratched the surface of identifying them, so how can they give a % like that? The correct terms would probably be something more like "we have identified only 5-10% of genetic breast cancers with our current technology and understanding of the genetics behind breast cancer".

10 years ago, they told us our p53 gene was normal. What they failed to say was "with our current test, it looks like the p53 gene up to Exon 9 was normal". They failed to tell us there were more Exons to test. But back then, they didn't test past exon 9 because they didn't have a test past 9. They missed our mutation by 1 Exon. It's almost like saying, they flew to the US, landed in our city, drove to our street, knocked on 9 doors, saw a dense wooded lot at the end of the street that they couldn't get through, and decided we didn't exist. Come to find out, they just didn't have the 9th Exon mapped out - or even a test for it at that time. All we knew was that our p53 gene was apparantly OK. We didn't even know about the wooded lot - or even that there was one available to look through. So next time you think about genetics, maybe that will help knowing what I went through.

I was 54. I am so happy to have found this support group. I wish I had found it earlier so would know what to expect. I've learned so much here.

I was 49 at age of diagnosis and live in the Seattle area...my onc says Seattle has very high rates of BC....I have no history of it in my family, I had 2 children in my twenties and my 2nd child nursed until she could say "nurse me, Mommy!" I also went for mammograms each year and they were clean.
Vicki brought up a point about Iodine deficiency...I have had a deficient thyroid for 15 years and take Synthroid. I brought up the deficiency with my onc and she said no. I also went through a period the year before my diagnosis when I was really, really low on iron....so low, I didn't get a menstrual period until my doc prescribed iron (I couldn't breathe and kept falling on the soccer field!). I always wondered if the iron being out of whack is what started the cancer. Just some thoughts.

Iodine And Bc
 

Hi Sandy, Hope you are doing well. My oNCOLOGIST IS DOING MAJOR STUDIES ON iODINE DEFICIENCY AND BREAST CANCER (AS WELL AS PROSTATE). SO ARE MANY PROMINENT ONCOLOGISTS. IT'S A SHAME TOO MANY ONCS DON'T NOW ABOUT IT YET. I FIND I HAVE TO DO ALOT OF SAVING MY LIFE ON MY OWN. I JUST LUCKED OUT AND GOT A TOP ONC WHO BELIEVES IN DOING ALL SHE CAN WITH ALTERNATIVES AS WELL AS CHEMO. SHE IS FROM JAPAN AND SAYS JAPANESE PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING CANCER BECAUSE OF THE HIGH DOSES OF IODINE IN THEIR DAILY DIET. OURS IS ONE TENTH THE AMOUNT THEY CONSUME AND SALT JUST DOESN'T DO IT. THERE IS A LAB IN NORTH CAROLINA (THE ONLY ONE IN THE US) THAT TESTS YOUR URINE FOR IODINE CONTENT AND WETHER YOUR BODY IS UTILIZING THE IODINE IT DOES RECEIVE. MY ONC SAYS EVERY SINGLE WOMaN OUT OF THE 1,300 SHE HAS TESTED, WITH BC, HAS BEEN EXTREMEMLY DEGICIENT IN IODINE. IT IS SOMETHING TO CHECK OUT AND DEFINITELY CUTTING EDGE. IF YOUR ONC SAYS NO, I WOULD GO OUT ON MY OWN AND RESEARCH IT. BEST OF WISHES TO YOU ALL, YOU ARE IN MY PRAYERS. LOVE, VICKIE

Hello to all!

I was dx in Dec. '05 (turned 61 2 weeks later) with grade II/III invasive ductal type, HIgh grade ductal in-situ, Her2+++, ER-, PR-

Port - Jan. 18 '06

Jan. 23 Taxotere, Adriamycin X three. Tumor grew and spread.

Modified Radical Mastectomy right side on Ap. 10, '06. 7 of 9 nodes involved.

May 5 '06 - Taxol, Carboplatin, Herceptin every two weeks for 8 cycles

then Navelbine + Herceptin for 8 cycles

then rads for 6 weeks + herceptin

then herceptin for 6 more months

One aunt with bc, one aunt with stomach ca - both my mom's sisters.

I took estrogen for 2 years 55 - 57 to try to avoid getting Progresive Supra-nuclear palsy which one aunt, grandmother, and mother died from.

Eating not great but not aweful. Stress extremely high age 50 - 60 (mom diagnosed, brother died of massive stroke (alcoholic), husband's heart attack, son on drugs/alcohol, etc - you know the normal stuff!) Live in San Antonio area. Grew up near Houston.

Luv this site!
ma

Iodine and BC
 

Thanks Vicki, I will try to research the iodine issue...this running commentary of everyone's thoughts and history has been so interesting! Thanks to everyone for contributing. I wonder how many polls we could set up and find things to link us all.....thanks to everyone!

I was told that estrogen status was a mechanism that either goes one way or the other in the early stages of the cancer development. I had both ER+ and ER- bilateral breast cancer. I kept scratching my head wondering which kind of treatment they would recommend for me. But since the ER- bc was IDC and the ER+ was DCIS, I got the ovaries removed instead of getting any of the estrogen blockers. Also, they mentioned that the ER- cancer tended to "find a way" to survive without the presence of estrogen.

Hi Sandy, I too have been seriously anemic for likely 10 years. Anytime it showed up I would do 6 wks of iron supplements. No one really followed up on it. I don't know if it's a cause but maybe a symptom. I had heavy periods which probably caused the anemia. I do think that the heavy periods were from estrogen gone wild. I think there's something ther, but so much to study and so little time. BB

Classic cases of iodine deficiency were manifested as goiter many years ago. To prevent this condition, the additive iodine was manufactured in salt to help prevent goiter as most people used table salt.Consequently, goiter is rare today and I would imagine most other iodine deficiencies states contributing to ailments, ig any bc correlations.

Hi All,

I was dxed June 05 with Stage IIIC er/pr negative, Her +++, 12/14 pos nodes at age 50.( pre-menapausal )
Did Right mast. 4 DD AC, 4 Taxotere with Herceptin ( still on herceptin) and 7 wks Rads.
Mom dxed with BC 24 yrs ago had reccurrence in liver and passed away at age 79 , two and one hlf yrs ago, her only sister died of BC in her mid 60s, and their mom ( my mat. grandmother died of BC in her 70s.
I have 2 sisters, 1 tested neg, 1 did not test, and I have decided not to test
for the braca gene.
I really believe (as another poster indicated) that there are breast cancer genes out there that have not been discovered,
My family hx is strong, but does not fit the profile for braca positive.
I lived my whole life in NJ ( summers often at Long Island Sound ( but moved to Nassau in 1999.
I was up to date on my mammos,and know that my palpable breast cancer did literally pop up quickly.
Interesting, I am 3 weeks out from a propylactive left mastectomy, with a neg MRI 6 mos ago, and no palpable lump.
However, my pathology showed major aytpia, and hyperplasia, (intraductal and lobular)
I had very fibrocystic breasts, had one child at age 19. Exercised and ate well.moderate alcohol, no smoking
No health problems at all before this.
Backround in nursing ( first job was working for an oncologist! )
Anway, I think there is definitely triggers that makes those lurking bad cells replicate. Could be environmental. I am thinking more and more it is viral, some of us are more susceptible. No science here, just my thoughts meandering.

Take care ladies, and God Bless.

Linda

I read all contributors to this thread with care and complete objectivity. Even with such a small number of sampling, one can see that it is an enormously complex set of potential "cause" factors. These factors are very difficult to define, nevermind to standardize. How can one grade a homesite near sea shore as a valid "cause" factor? Is 50 miles near an open sea a valid criterion? Environmental exposure, this is even more difficult to describe or define. Food intake, is one steak per week acceptable or two? Then, how do you define a steak? Does hot dog or hamburger count? So many other "cause" are not even mentioned, such as type of work, level of education, social behavior, past medical history, past exposure to radiation, chemicals, carcinogens, contaminated water/air, etc. Even with hundred times more candidates and with the aid of a computer, it is highly doubtful that we can even begin to elucidate the potential "cause" factors.

One feature seems to be a valid "cause" and common in our small group of people here, that is, their family bc history. Many of us seem to have parents with bc or other types of cancer. Then one can quickly rationalize that cancers have been the major killers of people. Therefore, the linkage is certainly plausible and likely real.

One important point is the random probability of disease occurence. Look at an identical batch of laboratory mice. They were bred under great care and control with same identical genealogy. Still, there are some in the same batch that react totally differently to the same test reagents. In common language, it is pure luck (unluck) that put us in our unhappy situations.

I don't want to appear to be negative in our effort to find out more about the dreadful disease. However, our data resources are simply too limited and the eagerness and zest to generate some forms of conclusion may be rash and misleading.

Ann

Hi ,

I know we can't jump to conclusions from our informal discussions, but I guess we all can't help but feel, why me?

Measles and plague were once viewed as random. Maybe it is dumb luck, maybe it's getting old and falling apart.

I guess I'm hoping in this information age, that maybe we can find some commonality that would merit further study. BB