This is just a collateral comment to the general discussion, but if one is looking for endocrinologists who are experts in female hormones, I think you have to find the ones who specialize in fertility treatments (I know, not what we are looking for here). They would likely be out of their element in bc, but could maybe respond concerning basic issues of hormonal balance at various stages of life, what is normal, optimal, etc.

Just a thought. Please resume the progesterone discussion.

Hopeful

Type of endocrine specialist to see
 

Thanks!

I like that idea, Hopeful; I may give it a go on my next trip to the Lower 48.

Terry, I had used some progesterone for a short time several years prior to dx. I am not on it now but am still open to the idea.

Because of the role the uterus plays in terms of progesterone, my thinking is that having a hysterectomy vs not having one might have some influence on the development of bc if estrogen dominance does play a role in bringing on bc.

A.A.

The general (or at least common) lack of communication between specialties is appalling in medicine in general.

A- It seems to me that Lee refers very specifically to the hsterectomy and estrogen and/or synthetic hormones given w/o progesteron to these women.

Tsund, Thanks For Inviting Me To Comment, Albeit I'm A Humble Commentator And No Expert On This Topic. Progesterone Has A Proven Record As A Deleterious Hormonal Player That Promotes Bc As Demonstrated By The Increased Rate Of Bc In The Whi Trail Where Bc Was Higher In Those Who Took Both Estrogen And Progesterone As Opposed To Those In The Group That Took Only Estrogen, Where Bc Incidence Was Lower. Many Doctors Suggest To Take Hormones In The Lowest Dose And For The Shortest Time Possible, Hopefully Ending With Hrt By The Time You Are 51, Average Onset Age Of Menopause. Additionally, The Cyclic Method, Where Progesterone Is Introduced In The Second Half Of The Cycle Would Be Better Than Continuous Therapy.

YES, I DO BELIEVE YOU NEED HORMONAL BALANCE. HOWEVER, I THINK THAT IS ACHIEVED THROUGH LIFESTYLE BALANCE AND NOT VIA PROGESTERONE. WHEN YOU ARE CALM, HEALTHY AND EATING CORRECTLY CORTISOL LEVELS ARE BALANCED, THYROID LEVELS AND HORMONAL BALANCES ARE OPTIMAL. PERHAPS, AS AA SUGGEST, IF THERE WAS MORE STUDY ON ALL OF THE INTERACTIONS OF HORMONES THERE WOULD BE MORE INFORMATION ON HOW BC BEGINS AND HOW TO PREVENT IT.

As Far As Dr. Lee's Progesterone Cream, I Disagree With His Theories About Pr Cream Decreasing Bc. There Are Just Not Enough Large Clinical Studies To Prove His Ideas Are Correct.
Hope This Helps.

Robin, (and all others interested)

I think I have seen that study ( can you send a link?) and I believe they used what most doctors and pharmacists used to call "progesterone": synthetic "progestins", (Provera, etc) as opposed to endogenous or "natural progesterone" (bioidentical). I could be wrong and please correct me if so. The two have a completely different track record, though, as you and Dr. Lee both say, not enough large studies have been done.

The staggering ignorance of the medical field on this topic continues. My sister in MN was just dx'd the typical synthetic HRT combo (for osteopenia) by a gynecologist who admitted had little to no knowledge of the difference between the two. My father is a retired pharmacist, and never knew the difference. Before the debacle of the huge study showing definite risk, he argued with me, "FDA would not let this product on the market and let millions of women take it if it were a risk" and "Provera is the same thing as progesterone." Not his fault. This is the education, or lack there of that most of our doctors and pharmacists were getting. And maybe still do?

Here is another relevent study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en..._uids=15601642

Notice they say they measured "endogenous" hormones here (of course since they were measuring what was already present in the body) If I read correctly, estrogen correlated to bc risk, the progesterone levels did not.

Here is an article about "medroxyprogesterone acetate" (MPA) which is the most commonly used synthetic progestin. http://breast-cancer-research.com/content/7/6/R1036 I have yet to competely absorb it, but it concludes:

Conclusion

Our comparison of the gene regulatory profiles of MPA and progesterone suggests that, for physiologic hormone replacement therapy, the actions of MPA do not mimic those of endogenous progesterone alone. Clinically, the complex pharmacology of MPA not only influences its side-effect profile; but it is also possible that the increased breast cancer risk and/or the therapeutic efficacy of MPA in cancer treatment is in part mediated by androgen receptor.

I am so out of my element here, but I continue to be intrigued and frustrated by this topic.

THanks,

Terri

The book I just bought on rec. of my GP:

"Iodine Why you Need It" by David Brownstein, has several interesting segments on breast cancer. Though I've only skimmed it so far, it has also said that progesterone helps absorbtion of iodine. Perhaps that's the kicker...it's more over on the iodine side?

It might be why both progesterone and iodine help some women with hot flashes, fibrocystic, etc.

TRS

regarding "balance"
 

PS Both of these books, (natural progesterone Dr. Lee and Iodine - Dr. Brownstein) refer to the estrogens that are so rampant in our environment. It is getting literally impossible to have normal balance in our hormones just by "healthy lifestyle" etc, due to the xenoestrogens rampant in our environment (plastics, pesticides, meat, dairy, etc).

OK I'm a novice scientist at best, but there seems like there's' got to be more valid connections and science here. These are the things that profiteers love to take and run with and thus the multitudes of ads on the web selling "products" with "scare text". But that unfortunate fact does not remove the possible truth of these lines of thought. It is possible that these things form part of the core of the reason of the "whys" of at least a substantial portion of bc.

This again ties back to Alaska Angel's concept of better research in the endocrinology area.

Thoughts? (see "iodine" thread for more on that subject.)

TRS

There is also a link between bc and hypothyroidism, which results, I believe, from insufficient iodine absorbtion. Perhaps progesterone is the bridge there?

Hopeful

Yes, Hopeful, that was my immediate thought when I saw the statement that "Natural Progesterone helps iodine absorbtion" or something to that effect.

Any more thoughts???