Tsh low -- what does it mean?

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

All my blood #s are good. Thank Heavens!

But -- my TSH is low. T3 and T4 normal.

No symptoms.

Feel fine.

Been going on for at least 6 mnths...

Am switching endocrinologists. Old one was freaking me out. Found nodules on my thyroid. Wanted to do biopsy. No thank you very much -- I have had enough biopsies (especially in the last 6 mnths) -- to last a lifetime.

1 yr after nodules found -- stable. I'm good with that.

No symptoms.

Just a low TSH, which I call my "tish"... (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone.)

Anyone with some input, I would really appreciate your words!

So many smart, knowledgeable ladies, and men, on this board. Someone must have information about my sagging "tish" #s... As I say, T3 and T4 -- normal. All other #s normal! So...???????????

[Hopeful]

Andi,

Do you mean the lab value for thyroid stimulating hormone is low, or the level of it in your body is low?

I have what is called "sub-clinical" hypothyroidism, where the lab value of the thyroid stimulating hormone is high because my body is not properly processing the fact that my T3 and T4 are normal range, and thinks the level in the body is low. The thyroid stimulating hormone keeps screaming at the thyroid to produce more T3, hence, the value is high. If your lab value is low but T3 and T4 are normal, maybe the reverse, if there is such a thing as sub-clinical hyperthyroidism.

Best of luck to you,

Hopeful

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Yes, Hope, my old freaked out endocrin lady doc kept saying I am hyperthyroid, when I asked if I needed iodine cause I felt so sluggish.

She did not ever explain anything to me. I need docs to have a conversation with me. We're talking about my body, right?

She'd have a staff member call and in 30 or less tell me I needed a thyroid scan, or that I needed an uptake test. When I'd ask what the uptake test was they said, I don't know. You'd have to ask the hospital.

I googled and it's a 2 day test done in the hospital. They inject some radioactive stuff into you and you go and come back in an hr or two and get xrays.

Then you have to do this a 2nd day.

I was very turned off.

Didn't understand why I needed this. Called and asked for the doc to call me re my TSH. She never did.

When I called again I was told, Ma'am, we are concierge practice... In a very snippy voice.

So I'm scheduled w/a new doc who can't see me till mid Dec.

And it's all preying on my brain...

When you say sub-clinical, does that mean you aren't being treated for hypothyroid?

I'm confused.
Andi

[KDR]

Hi, Andi,
I have been meaning to get in touch. Checking in quickly. Much going on.

TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone.

I was hyperthyroid in 2001 (Graves Disease). I was given radioactive iodine and my thyroid was burned out, so I am now considered euthyroid. I take Synthroid daily and will have to for the rest of my life. By the way, I cannot take the generic Levothyroxine or I will be flat in less than three days. There is something in the binding agents that doesn't agree with me, so I MUST be on brand.

With as many years experience as I have, and knowing that medications can influence the correctness of numbers, as can weight issues, I would request a free T3 and T4 and TSH.

I can help you read the numbers if you don't understand what your endo says.

Love
Karen

[Aussie Girl]

Dear Andi

The thyroid gets complicated once there are concurrent illnesses like cancer. You sound like you may have sub-clinical hyperthyroidism. This may or may not proceed on to full clinical hyperthyroidism. At this stage, it often just requires monitoring, but reduction in bone density can occur. Cardiac problems occur with clinical hyperthyroidism, but are much less likely if subclinical.

Personally, I'd consider having the radioactive scan to see if one of the nodules is "hot", a sign of overactivity. Hot nodules are almost never malignant. Diffuse increase in hotness (radioactivity) is more common in hyperthyroidism. Cold nodules on a scan can be either benign or malignant but the majority are benign (and many people have benign nodules). A fine needle biopsy is sometimes needed to check a nodule, particularly if it is growing or becoming dominant. All these tests are easy compared to breast cancer!

I don't like the sound of your endocrinologist much. A good primary care physician should know how to handle this also, but I know the medical system works differently in differently in the USA compared to Australia.

Good luck

Aussie Girl

['lizbeth]

AndiBB - have you been eating your ocean caught sea food a couple times per week? How about some nice seaweed salad?

Whatever the problem I hope you can solve it more holistically.

[michka]

Hi Andi. One year before my diagnosis of BC my doctor sent me for a thyroid ultrasound (echo). It showed I had 50 small nodules and the Dr who did the biopsy did a biopsy during an echo of the largest ones. The report came back saying I had "pre cancerous" cells. My thyroid was then taken out and I am now on Levotyrox. I thought the biopsy was ridiculous and that I was loosing my time. I was so surprised when it came back. The biopsy was really nothing compared to the biopsy I had in the breast.
A lot of women on this site seem to have had problems with their thyroid before or after BC. Is it linked? Maybe one day we will know.
Andi, if you can have a biopsy just during an echo, I would do it.
Love. Michka

[Hopeful]

Andi,

"Sub-clinical" refers to the fact that while my T3 and T4 are normal, my TSH levels are not, and, the direction they are heading, I would be fully hypothyroid if they hit a value of 10, regardless of where the T3 and T4 values are (mine have hovered between 6 and 7 since I first had them tested in 2004). I have other symptoms consistent with hyopthyroidism, mainly some early bradycardia, which, in turn, causes hypertension. In short, I am a mess! There is controversy in the medical community about when to treat sc hypo/hyper thyroidism. A good endocrinologist is essential.

The link between thyroid and bc is iodine - the thyroid is the organ that uses the most iodine in the body, followed by the breast. R.B. has a thread on this in the nutrition forum, if anyone wants to take a look there.

Hopeful

[rhondalea]

First, you need a new endo.

Second, you need to ask that your antibodies be tested--what you've described sounds a lot like Hashimoto's to me, and it's quite common a condition these days.

Third, consider adding 100 micrograms of selenomethionine*to your daily regimen.

I suppressed lifelong thyroid antibodies and a hot nodule using selenium--200 micrograms/day for a year until the antibodies and nodule were gone, followed by a drop to 100 micrograms/day. It's best to get to the lower dose sooner than later, because higher doses increase the risk of type 2 diabetes. (I was unaware of this risk when I was taking 200 micrograms.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17620655?dopt=Abstract

The studies about selenium, nodules and antibodies are equivocal--some have shown excellent results, others not so much, so I'm at a loss about which links to post. Anecdotally, it worked for me, and I know others for whom it also gave good results.

My own endo did nothing but a thyroid ultrasound, and then we kept watch. But I had a known case of Hashimoto's and just one nodule. If it were me, and my labs came back antibody free, I think I'd have the recommended scans.

Be aware that T3 can drive breast cancer. (I tell you this just in case someone suggests natural dessicated thyroid to you as a cure-all.) Also be aware that iodine can exacerbate an existing thyroid problem, so until you know what's going on, it's best not to use it. (I get 100 micrograms of iodine a day from kelp; the rest comes from iodized salt. Although there's a lot of hoopla about high doses of iodine, I'm not convinced it's a good idea, so I keep my intake around 250 micrograms a day.)

(*That's what I used, but I understand that se-methyl l-selenocysteine is also good.)

[rhondalea]

P.S. What are your precise lab numbers, Andi? (Please include the lab ranges.)

['lizbeth]

Yes AndiBB - inquiring minds want to know! What is your tish?

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

THIS IS FOR INQUIRING MINDS WILLING TO VENTURE FORWARD... Apologies for the length, but you all know me...

Well, first thank you all for the info! Got more from y'all in a day than I got from my endocrin lady over a year! There is no discussion w/her. No conversational exchange of ideas and questions. Just commands from a staffer who has no idea what she's asking you to do or why, nor does she care.

Doc was obviously shaken by my low TISH... She surreptitiously tested me for Grave's disease I discovered when her staffer called w/my lab results, which I asked to have faxed. Then re-faxed cause -- illegible. Still illegible. I googled Graves. Geez. Communicate with patient -- she must have missed class that day.

Basically "healthy, non-thyroidal disease, Thyroid disease without Grave disease and Untreated Graves disease -- all good, though I only see smudged ink. I was told, by staffer.

Thyroid anti TSH receptors .9 (in a range of 0.0 - 1.8)


TSH .67 (in a range of .49 - 4.67)
FREE T4 -- .92 (in a range of .71 - 1.85)
I was told Free T3 also normal, though I don't see it.

3 mnths later Free T4 -- 1.1
TSH -- .31 -- OH DEAR!!! http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/2b00001c91/16 http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/2b00001c91/13

This doc diagnosed my husband w/Hashimoto's hypothyroid and he's on Synthroid.

She says I am hyperthyroid.

That is the sum total of what she's told me.

Internist (I had my records sent to his office) says, when there are nodules over 1 cm they like to biopsy. Usually the biopsy is benign but sometimes results are unclear. Then they like to remove thyroid. (I'm not into that so much...)

Internist did another thyroid scan, compared to last years, as I am stable.

Seeing new endo guy mid Dec, as that is his first available appt.

I LOVE MY NEW TEAM! You all rock! Thank you for caring.

You all sound smarter than my bright endo lady who has absolutely no social skills whatsoever.

I thank each of you for your wisdom and experience and willingness to share what you know with me.

The endo lady was hyperventilating so at the last visit I asked her if she thought I had cancer. (Finally got my courage up.) She shot back, What?! NO!!! Okay, then why are you so upset?, I asked.

She was pacing. She didn't finish her physical exam of me, gathered her records, and left the room.

I had told her, BTW, I checked that supplement I stopped and THERE WAS NO IODINE IN IT. Are you sure, she said. Rustled her papers, said she was sure she'd made a note of that. (She'd mentioned it at last 3 mnth visit so I had to check, cause I wouldn't take iodine just like that no matter what.) Apparently being told she was wrong was too much for her to handle.

I had waited an hr for her that last day. I'd sent a FAX to her, as she never ever returns my phone calls, asking for some thoughts and guidance re my TSH. I suppose I was pissy sounding cause I was just that! No one ever returns calls from that snippy office. Even the office manager.

Endo lady hates my supplements list, wants to know -- WHERE ARE THE STUDIES???, and obviously judges me. I explained my oncological nutritionist had recommended every one. He was a prof at Cornell Strang Institute in NY. Knows his stuff!

She blamed my supplements for my low TSH. I had recently started a new one, given to me by my holistic chiropractor (you can imagine how well that went over with endo lady) and said I would stop immediately.

Endo lady wanted to retest the next wk. I explained that we should wait a few mnths to give the supplement a chance to work its way out of my body. She reluctantly agreed. More hyperventilating on her part.

Rhonda -- I take an immune booster daily (twice a day vs the recommended 3x a day, cause it's so darn expensive, and among the least expensive of the list of boosters my nut onc gave me). It has selenium in it. 200 mcg. So I've been taking 400 mcg a day for about 12 yrs, with TISH lowness only in the last yr.

I know Dr. Andrew Weill recommends 200 of selenium. Didn't think that I was taking twice that, but lots of my supplements are high dosage, as nut onc feels studies that prove some ineffective are based on lower dosages. And, I have to say, I believe I agree, since I got through 9 mnths of Taxotere and the last 14 yrs following my nut oncs advice.

I don't have symptoms of Hashimoto, or Graves. I have no symptoms but 27 yrs of hotness, which stopped with holistic lady's porcine glandular mixture, which I took for 2 mnths and never took again. And IBS, which is not an issue w/thyroid I don't think.

Thanks Rhonda for the heads up re dissicated thyroid. It would creep me out, just by the sound of it. (My mother lived on Synthroid with low energy for most of her life.) I have had low energy since my teens.

I'm receiving Byetta injections twice a day, trying to prevent me from becoming a type 2 diabetic. I have always had slightly high glucose #s (? my norm ??) and was gestational diabetic in '68 and '70 when I gave birth to healthy baby girls (9 lbs 10 oz and 9 lbs 13 oz)...

Will check out the link you provided and google se-methyl l-selenocysteine and all you mentioned!!! (Take Acetyl Cysteine through nut onc.)

Will consider switching immune boosters and taking less selenium separately. OY. So much to consider.

My TSH was higher 6+ yrs ago through to 2012...

T3 and T4 always normal.

Have had hypertension since pre bc, my late '30s, though it was hard to find a doc to admit to it. They kept saying I was probably just nervous at my routine exam. I would say, No... Then I took my bp 3 x a day for a mnth and brought my readout to the doc (top doc, of course). He said, You're machine is broken.

My husband agreed. We bought a new machine. Then when I had a D&C, wrote the week's worth of bp 3x a day for the anesthesiologist in '93 (pre bc) I was told after surgery that I need to see a cardiologist. That even under anesthesia my bp was high. They just didn't/don't regard women as a heart risk!!

I see a cardiologist ev 6 mnths and my bp is excellent, under control. Get an ECHO now annually, ev 6 mnth during 10 yrs of Herceptin. Small peri-cardial effusion remains since Taxotere. (Pleural effusion from Taxotere dissipated after cessation of Taxotere...)

Have to look for RB's thread on thyroid and bc, thanks Hope...

No kelp, no seaweed salad. YUCK

Hyperthryroid is counter-intuitive to me. I am sluggish. Always. Where's the energy rush???? But doc says hyper. Aussie Girl, I think I am sub-clinical. I think I'll just stay there, and not progress. Will work on that. VISUALIZING. IMAGINING. Guided Imagery.

XXX AND OOOO to all of you, I await...

Andi

['lizbeth]

Let's see you don't like seaweed, don't take kelp. Is seafood off the menu? No problem I'll be at the sushi house eating your share ;)

You stopped taking iodine and now your TSH is dropping.

I have read that TSH has another function besides thyroid hormone production. It helps to stimulate the body's production of iodine transport cells (sodium-iodide symporter - NIS) Without adequate NIS iodine would not be able to enter the cells and be utilized.

An iodine-deficient patient's body does not require a large amount of NIS since there is little iodine that needs to be transported into the cells.

When this patient supplements with iodine, the extra iodine needs to be transported into the cells. One way the body accomplishes this is to increase TSH to stimulate more NIS.

When is the last time you had your iodine levels checked?

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

I love shrimp and lobster, clams and scallops.

No salad. Feh.

What does kelp do for you?

NO, 'LIZBETH, I never took iodine. Endo doc lady "thought" it was in my supplement and that is why TSH dropped. She was wrong. She didn't like that I told her she was mistaken. She insisted she had it in her notes. But she was so flustered by my obstinence re having another scan, which she has been literally pushing ev 3 mnths...

She said, I don't understand, you are so diligent about the rest of your body, why...

I said (Oct.) -- with hand gestures -- BECAUSE THERE'S A LINE. I JUST HAD A MESENTERY MASS AND HAD SURGERY IN JUNE AND IT WAS BENIGN. (Because they found something new in my CT scans.) I just had a core needle biopsy in my right breast, my only breast, b/c they found something new in August. And that was benign. And then I had a corneal abrasion that blinded me with pain for 5 days (b/c of an accident with one of my dog's paws). I am shaken. Feeling vulnerable. Need to calm myself. Can't be jumping from one medical emergency to another... Just not ready.

I asked the doc about my sluggishness (I take b-12 and tyrosine and a batch of other energy boosters daily) and asked about iodine. She insisted that, No, I am hyperthyroid, NO IODINE. She was adamant.

I think I read that a low TISH can be confusing and in fact be a sign of hypothyroidism cause the body is confused... Lord knows I'm confused.

No one has ever checked my iodine, unless -- I will check back w/my records when we had a wonderful female endo lady who moved away. I so trusted her, as did Paul. In fact, we were both in love with her...

Get back to you on that...

Andi

[rhondalea]

Andi, I know you've posted your supplement list before, but if you would be kind enough to do it again, I'd like to look at it. I'd also like to know precisely which antibodies were tested. See the table on this page:

http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroid-antibodies/tab/test

Can you look at your labs and see if TPO and thyroglobulin were also tested?

It could very well be that some of your supplements are suppressing your TSH (been there, done that), which might explain why your FT4 is pathetically low. Hyperthyroid? More like hypo, although I'd really like to see the T3. Yeesh. Your endo is a nut case.

Note that hypertension can be a symptom of hypothyroidism. Mine goes the other way--I have low blood pressure that gets lower as I get more hypo--but most people are not like me in that regard.

You need to lower the selenium asap. Way too much, and it's clearly not doing anything for your nodules.

The only other thing I'd suggest at the moment is that if you're willing to drive 3 hours, there's a wonderful endo in Lake Mary. Until I found my current endo here in New Jersey, I seriously considered flying back and forth to Florida to continue seeing her rather than settling for substandard care. Luckily, I found a good endo who is closer, but I still miss Dr. Ansara. She's just amazing (and she also has hypothyroidism, so she's more sympathetic that an endo who is not similarly afflicted).

[Aussie Girl]

Dear Andi,

I think you are safe to wait until you see the new endocrinologist. Both hyper and hypothyroidism make you tired/sluggish as well as a zillion other things.

If I got this right, I think you are saying that the problem is low TSH despite normal FT4 and T3. Previously you've have normal tests. The commonest cause of this pattern is subclinical hyperthyroidism, a second common cause is accidental or intentional ingestion of a thyroxine supplement (Yes, this happens more than you'd think because people think it'll pep them up). Non-thyroidal illness, a few drugs including steroids and rarely pituitary disease (secondary hypothyroidism) could cause this pattern. Thyroiditis of any sort can cause fluctuating hyper- and hypothyroidism but usually the antibody tests show what the problem is.

The second issue is the thyroid nodules which seem to be long standing. Rarely a thyroid nodule can independently pump out too much T4. I think this quite unlikely. A radioiodine scan would be needed to exclude this. It may not be necessary, but you need that second opinion in December.

I don't think your original endocrinologist was completely off track, but her communication skills and manners (including those of her staff) appear suboptimal, to say the least.

Thyroid hormone levels adjust slowly (6 weeks) so it would be best not to change your supplements before you see the new doctor. It could confuse things. He/she may need to test you again to see if the low TSH was only a temporary glitch.

It would probably help if you could hand him a written copy of your health summary, your medications and current supplements. And any prior thyroid tests, including antibodies. It can get difficult for doctors when the history is complicated. Supplements taken in the distant past probably aren't an issue.

Most people get sufficient iodine and selenium in their diet but your nutritionist will have checked this.

Good luck with this.

Aussie Girl

[Hopeful]

Be aware that T3 can drive breast cancer

I believe this is true in my case. My cancer was dx within a year of my doc putting me on limited synthroid to resolve the TSH issue. After 3 months, I developed incredible itching, which I later learned was a cancer symptom. I stopped the drug, and was dx a few months later at my annual screening. I have subsequently undergone testing for thyroid antibodies (3 different kinds) and I came up negative for all of them. My TSH is still in that 6 - 7 range, not getting higher with time. Unfortunately, it does affect my pulse and bp. My doc says the bp issue cannot be resolved unless the TSH issue is. It is a catch 22.

Hopeful

['lizbeth]

Andi,

Have you been avoiding salt because of your high blood pressure?

See - that cracks me up. I've had this conversation before with my medical team.

Doctor, I've been taking Kelp for breast pain - do you think I'm deficient in iodine? I've been tested for hypothyroid several times over the last few years, and iodine deficiency has been linked to breast cancer.

Oh you get plenty of iodine in your diet from iodized salt.

But doctor, you told me to avoid salt because I have high blood pressure.

Oh. Subject dropped.

These daily recommended intakes are just that - recommendations. As you can see everyone is so different. If one supplements with too much selenium - it causes problems. Me - with too little selenium and iodine (kelp) and I have fatigue and pain. But since you and Rhondalea both have a tendency toward high blood sugar - you might want to consider reducing supplementing selenium and eat more brazil nuts.

I do find it interesting that an endocrinologist would not actually test for levels of iodine if you seem to have hypothyroid and a history of breast cancer. It makes me suspicious of an expert who would insist on expensive and possibly harmful tests before offering a simple urine test. But this is something that likely should have been done years ago, and now you have these nodules, yikes!

AussieGirl - the system must be different in Australia. I saw a nutritionist and I was never tested for my iodine levels. I'm not comfortable with just assuming, even if the medical community is.

Well Andi I'm glad you are firing your concierge endocrinologist. Bleh, not for you!

You can eat more ocean caught fish and decrease exposure to goitrogens to see how you feel with the fatigue. Avoid pastries and breads processed with bromide. Reduce exposure to fluoride in water and toothpaste. Reduce exposure to chloride. Eat less cabbage, brussel sprouts, and broccoli.

I think not switching up things with supplements before testing again at the new and improved endocrinologist is sound advice. And listing them for our thyroid savy members might help find culprits that are getting your thyroid counts off.

[rhondalea]

No, not brazil nuts. The amount of selenium in brazil nuts is highly variable, and sometimes it's just plain high. Dangerously so. Better to control the dosage with a pill and a food diary that tracks selenium. (I track all my nutrients from food so I don't over-supplement, and I never eat brazil nuts.)

The I-am-not-sure-this-is-a-reputable-source article:

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/blogentries/brazil-nuts-a-variable-source-of-selenium.html

The study (abstract only):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1745-4565.1989.tb00527.x/abstract

Aflatoxins in brazil nuts:

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/22045/InTech-Selenium_and_aflatoxins_in_brazil_nuts.pdf

A more optimistic study that ignores all of the above:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/379.full

I don't tend toward high blood sugar, btw. When my endo stuck the Dexcom on me, my results were pretty scary--I was going into the 40s while I slept, and I wasn't getting very good glucose levels during the day either. It's better now, though. I feel very lucky to have been accepted into the metformin trial, because I was afraid hypoglycemia would be cause for rejection.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Thank you, Rhonda for the link. Very edifying.

I'll search my "files" for TPO, thyroglobulin (neither rings a bell in my head). Am also interested if I was ever tested for iodine as I've been complaining of low energy for 5 yrs (w/first endo lady who was the best and now gone endo lady who is/was such a bad match for me). Been saying I feel hypo, but told I am hyper...

I have cut back on my immune booster w/200 mcg selenium as of last night (take on empty stomach)!! I was thinking my body was sending me that message for a while, as I get crampy (IBS) when I take it. Well, I get crampy all the time, so... But I got YOUR message Rhonda loud and clear.

Dr. Andrew Weil says selenium has antioxidant effects that help the body address cellular damage from free radicals. One of its most valuable roles is as a cofactor of an important antioxidant enzyme in the body called glutathione peroxidase.

Selenium helps support a strong immune system, regulates thyroid function, and may help reduce the risk of some cancers. It also plays a role in the prevention of cataracts and heart disease.

Weil takes 200 mcg a day and that's what he recommends.

My endo has been testing for A1C, FT3 and FT4 (though as I said I can't find any of the 3 #s) and TSH. Not much else. Will check older records of 1st great endo lady to see if I at least have a base line.

I am posting my supplements list below!

Since I've been taking my supplements since 1998 and my thyroid #s were normal/fine till about a yr ago, shortly after going on a new supplement for hot flashes of 27 yrs, I would be surprised if new low TSH #s come from tried and true supplements. I stopped the new supplement within 2 mnths -- was cured of hot flashes!!!!!!!!! -- and have retested sev x, w/the #s I posted above in previous post.

Have had the hypertension since I was in my 40s. Now 69. High bp ev x I saw doc was dismissed as, You're probably nervous. Then at end of visit would retest bp and still wayyy high. Dismissed again.

Finally, I was told to take my bp at home. We have a machine. Come back in a mnth. Brought 3x a day readout for a mnth to doc. He said my machine must be broken!

My husb agreed and bought a new machine!

When I had a D&C in '93, I brought the anesthesiologist a wk's work of 3 x a day readout of my bp. I was scared.

After surgery, I was told I needed to see a cardiologist cause even under anesthesia -- my bp was high!!!

Women were/are not taken seriously as heart attack risks!!! Crazy!!!

When I had my records transferred from awful endo lady, I called previous best ever endo lady. She's not taking new patients but loved my husband and me and would take us. However, from what I told her, she said I would need a lot of testing and follow up and I/we can't commit to regular 1 hr trips to Miami. I had thought a one time visit would be helpful.

No a 3 hr trip to your fab endo lady isn't in us. But thanks for suggestion(s), Rhonda!

I responded earlier today to you and everyone who was kind enough to post in this TSH thread, but as I hurried out the door to my annual ophthalmologist appt, I accidentally hit a wrong button and deleted 30 minutes of my life! Don't you hate when that happens?! Ugh...

Aussie, I see you too know a lot on this subject. Why I have not been tested for antibodies is roiling me at this point. Hello. My Sisters know this, why not you doc??!!

Will get 2nd opinion mid Dec. Friday the 13th. 13 is my lucky #...!!!

I'll take your advice and stick with my program for now so as not confuse any future bld results... Though I have cut my selenium in half!!

I doubt I get sufficient nutrition from my diet as b/c of IBS I have a very long list of trigger foods.

I do eat fish. No fruit. Some veggies. NO nuts. NO corn. And the list goes on...

Hopeful, curious what the 3 antibodies you were tested for were?

I thought once you were on Synthroid, you can never go off?

So many interesting thoughts circulating here!!

Yes, 'Lizbeth, I avoid salt.

Your back and forth w/doc is almost comical. Yet pathetic...
Docs need to "focus".

For my fatigue I take a powder w/OJ ea AM (for chronic fatigue), B-12 lozenge (3,000) and Tyrosine (500). Not sure Tyrosine is in my supplement list below, but it helps boost me up. I would be a total slug without these helpers.

For aches and pains -- Co Enz Q10 -- 150 AM/PM -- Carnitine -- 500 AM/PM -- Alpha Lipoic Acid 300 AM/PM. MAKES A BIGGG DIFFERENCE!

Can't eat nuts, 'Lizbeth, which I adore! Am high just above normal range glucose always. Was gestational diabetic, delivering 2 dghtrs ('68 and '70) @ 9 lbs 13 oz and 9 lbs 10 oz. Their normal head size saved me, but I was pretty torn up.

On Byetta injections twice a day to keep me from becoming diabetic. Am holding at just above normal on glucose...

Yes, 'Lizbeth, I said to my husb that I think she wanted the thyroid U/S (never discussed w/me but directed to do so my a staffer in a 30 sec 700 mpm phone call) cause of $$$. Done in her office.'

Again, I do so appreciate all of you taking the time and trouble to help me with my issue of the day.

This is a hurdle I am just flummoxed by. Surgery last June for my mesentery mass mystery which was B 9....!!! And my surgery in August for my other something new w/clear mammo but not so w/U/S (which I request cause lobular hides -- and apparently all w/dense breasts have hidden stuff) also B 9...!!!

Stable since '99. After 10 yrs on Vit H, now 5 yrs off, I was feeling not cocky, but comfortable. Still shaken by the trauma around the surgery (pre and post) and the 5 days waiting for needle biopsy results (really sweating that out over a long weekend), now dealing w/my thyroid issue.

AND THE AMAZING THING IS -- I FEEL GOOD. HEALTHY AND WELL. Just not enough pep. Same problem since my teens.
Chemo sure didn't help. Which you all know. And the emotional toll of dealing w/4th stage bc is a really big too, which you all also know all too well!!

With my love, as always,



Andi

PS -- Rhonda, can't believe all you know and do and have been through! You sound somewhat like me in the OCD department. But I could never keep track of all my nutrients. It's all I can do to stick w/my program. I am religious about taking my supplements. I believe they are essential to my health.

HERE'S MY LIST -- geez almost forgot! Please don't freak out when you see this list. I think of it as my lifeline, my maintenance therapy. I perceive these supplements as I do my bld pressure meds -- essential to my health and well-being.

Yes, I know lots of people think I'm crazy. But I am still here! Against all odds. And this is what I believe has helped bring me to this day...

Acidophilus 15/35 AM/PM -- probiotic for controlling
digestive IBS issues
Alpha Lipoic Acid 300 AM/PM -- detoxifies liver, antioxidant, neutralizes free radicals, protects cells from damage -- AND RELIEVES MUSCLE PAIN -- IN COMBINATION WITH THE NEXT 2:

Co-Enzyme Q10 -- 150 AM/PM -- which also enhances immune system, prevents cancer cell proliferation, energizes, healthy heart, good gums -- RELIEVES MUSCLE PAIN --

IN COMBINATION WITH Alpha Lipoic Acid 300 and L-Carnitine 500 AM/PM

L- Carnitine 500 AM/PM -- assists gastric absorption, energizes, heart healthy, immune booster -- RELIEVES MUSCLE PAIN
Arginine 500 sustained and immediate release AM --
strengthens heart, elevates EF
B-1, B-2, B-5 -- 100 ea
B-6 50 AM, heart healthy, energizes, helps repair nerve damage, good for skin
B-12 sublingual (3,000) -- energy
Chromium Piccolinate 400 AM
Potassium Albion 99 AM/PM

WHEN I HAVE MY COMPREHENSIVE BLOOD WORK DONE I ASK THAT B-12 AND D BE INCLUDED SO I CAN KEEP TABS ON BEING IN THE NORMAL RANGE. I save every report ever written about me and keep them in a NO MORE CANCER file at home. I compare the new with the last, line by line.

That is how I -- yes "I" -- found my metastases. Asked for liver sono, which led to CT which led to biopsy. My tumor markers were still within normal range. But my liver enzymes were ever so slightly different from MY USUAL. Doc kept saying, I wouldn't worry about it. It is very very slight. Well, YOUR #s generally follow a trend. If they vary, I see red flags. Just saying...

C-1,000 w/bioflavonoids 1,000 -- enhances immune system, reduces recurrence of cancer
Calcium 1200 -- easy to swallow gel capsule increases
bone density
D-3 -- 50,000 a week. I take 10,000 over 5 days a week. For healthy bones, blocks breast cancer cell growth, meets your body's organs increasing need for D as we age. BE KIND TO YOUR ORGANS. THEY DEPEND ON YOU.
Phenalalanine 500 AM empty stomach -- mood enhancer

Folate w/Quatrefolic 400 mcg AM empty stomach --
heart healthy, red blood booster
Gingko Biloba Extract 60 AM/PM -- mental alertness
Grapeseed Extract 150 AM -- anti-oxidant, can cross blood-brain barrier and protect brain and spinal nerves against free radical damage, enhances anti-tumor effect, protects liver, strengthen connective tissue, including heart system, supports immune system and slows aging

Resveratrol 250 AM/PM -- anti-oxidant, heart healthy, anti-cancer, HER2 blocker

NAC (N-Acetyle Cysteine) 600 AM -- supports healthy liver function, rids body of toxins

NADH -5Co Engzyme 1 (AM/PM) 1/2 hr before eating -- relieves chronic fatigue, boosts mental acuity

Omega 3 - 2,126 -- suppresses tumors, inhibits their growth, may slow or prevent recurrence of cancer, improves blood glucose, good for muscle/joint pain, anti-inflammatory, down regulates HER2 receptor


DIM-Plus (Diindolylmethane) 100 AM/PM -- metabolizes
estrogen

Phyto Formula -- 1 scoop w/OJ -- promotes energy BIG TIME, reduces chronic fatigue, boosts immune system and increases mental clarity + 1 banana a day!

RM-10 Garden of Life Immune System Mushroom Blend VEGETARIAN CAPSULES -- AM on empty stomach -- I take 1 --expensive but powerful in regulating and stimulating the immune system, anti-oxidant, detoxifier, reduces recurrence of bc --
WITH 200 mcg SELENIUM
ZINC 30 anti-cancer

Grapeseed Extract 150 AM -- anti-oxidant, enhances anti-tumor effect, protects liver, strengthens connective tissue, including heart system, supports immune system, slows aging

Glutamine -- 500 AM empty stomach -- assists gastro absorption, energizes
Lysine 500 AM empty stomach -- assists gastro absorption, energizes
NAC (N- Acetyl Cysteine) 600 AM -- supports liver function, rids body of toxins
Echinacea w/goldenseal 900 AM/PM -- 1 wk on / 1 wk off -- alternate w/
Astragalus

Flaxseed Oil 1,000 AM -- heart healthy, anti-cancer, detoxifies, improves brain function, helps painful, severely dry eyes since Taxotere '98


Thanks for reading all this, if you've actually made it this far... (((((( )))))) You are a most special, extraordinary person!!! And I am so grateful you're in my life!!!!!!!!!!

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

FOUND!

from Nov 2012
TSH .80 (range .40-4.oo)
FREE T4 1.07 (range .89-1.76)
FREE T3 2.54 (range 1.80-4.20)
Anti-TPO ab ABNORMAL 52.2 High (range 10.0-35.0)
Anti-TG Ab ABNORMAL LOW (range 20.0-40.0)

How did I never check the last two?

I see her note THYROID LEVELS BETTER! NORMAL.

And I guess I moved on...

I flinch at ABNORMAL -- HIGH or LOW always.
Well, I guess, when I'm not in a rush...

So -- 1 yr later -- I am flinching. And asking -- tell me everything you know about Anti -TPO and Anti -TG
please...

[rhondalea]

I think my list is at least as big as yours, Andi. I take nearly 50 different supplements every day. Nearly all of them are lower doses, though--I've gotten cautious about taking the amounts in commercial capsules.

A couple of things on your list rang some bells with me, so I'm going to look up everything just to be sure. Just so you know, ALCAR has been used to treat hyperthyroidism. I also take it, but I've got my thyroid meds adjusted to take that into account. (It may, however, explain part of the problem I was having with my labs for a time.)

For right now, having nothing to do with your thyroid numbers and everything to do with cancer, have you considered taking niacin or niacinamide instead of NADH? I read the following paper, and I gave up the NADH immediately. I've been taking extra niacin/niacinamide ever since.

The article:

http://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20130225/felding.html

The paper:

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/64264

I'll get back to you shortly on everything else. I think it would be a really bad idea for you to change your regimen given how well it has worked for you, but a little fine tuning might be useful, especially for the supplements that you're using for energy and brain fog.

[rhondalea]

You have Hashimoto's (the Anti-TPO result--yes, it could be Graves, but neither your labs nor the other antibody test you reported in an earlier post support that conclusion). Anti-TPO antibodies explain your other thyroid labs, bang, zoom, end of story. They also explain the nodules, although you still need to keep a close eye on them and think really hard about having the biopsy--better safe than sorry. I'll still go through the supplements, but they're not the reason you're having an issue.

I don't understand the result for Anti-TG Ab. Low is good. None is best. Are you sure it doesn't just say that your thyroglobulin (TG) is low? Either that, or there's a typo on the report, because thyroglobulin antibodies are not to be desired in any amount. Low thyroglobulin would fit with the anti-TPO AB too.

Be aware that endocrinology group-think is to not treat Hashimoto's, per se, but to treat the ultimate result--hypothyroidism. Low dose naltrexone has shown promise for suppressing antibodies and making Hashi's folks feel better, but the research isn't there yet--it's mostly all anecdote. Even at that, it might be worth talking about.

I need to go back and reread the whole thread now, because I think you mentioned symptoms that are almost always attributable to antibodies wreaking havoc on your system.

I would strongly suggest to you (as I suggested to NEDenise for her brain fog and other symptoms) that you give lecithin a shot. 15-30 grams a day in split doses should give you more energy and lessen your brain fog. I haven't quite figured out the connection between the cholingeric receptors and thyroid disease, but I know there is one, and more than that, I know lecithin is innocuous and it works. You don't need to worry about it being derived from soy--lecithin is so highly refined that it's irrelevant. Other than that, though, you should avoid both soy and iodine. You may also want to consider deep-sixing gingko, but we can talk more about that later.

This is like my daughter all over again. I said to her, "It's your thyroid." She finally got tested, and she said, "All my labs were normal." And I said, "Even the antibodies?" Blank look. "Uh, I forgot." (Because people with thyroid issues forget the most important things all the time.)

When she went back and had the antibodies done, they were raging. Internist gave her a referral to my endo. He did a full workup, and he put her on Tirosint (levothyroxine of the finest variety--I wouldn't taken anything else). He also considered giving her a beta blocker, because she was having what she thought were panic attacks--I knew they weren't because I'd had them too--but with the Tirosint working, she didn't need it. Thyroid had done a bunch of other things--her D was low, as was her B12, so she had to supplement, but as soon as her thyroid was under control, everything else fell into place.

You should look back as far as you can to see when the antibodies were first detected. This may have been going on for a long time.

['lizbeth]

I guess I will need to limit my brazil nut habit to 2 or less per day. Rats. I love them.

I take the lecithin for memory. I also use it to lower my heart rate.

[rhondalea]

I know, 'lizbeth. I like brazil nuts, too, but I'll never eat another one.

That's the trouble with so-called "natural" cures--the general feeling is that if it's natural, it won't hurt you, but I've known people who have severely damaged (and even killed) themselves with that thinking. Some of the supplements we take have the potential to do untold harm. (I have a basket full of supplements that I thought were a real good idea, only to learn upon further research of their potential for disaster for those taking tamoxifen.)

['lizbeth]

Rhondalea,

After having cancer and dealing with the medical community I've learned to be skeptical of everything. If anything I had such a blind faith in doctors, but I've gotten hard lessons that there are great doctors and not so good ones. Sometime modern medicine treatments are miraculous, and there are times they should be avoided.

My mom was really into natural medicine. But I didn't personally want to gamble on a natural cure with no research behind it. I tried some of the stuff that had studies behind them, but they didn't slow down the Pagets -yikes.

Worse yet, I think you mentioned Brazil nuts before. But I like them so much I must have not incorporated that information into my little noggin'.

I was looking at AndiBB's list and there is no way I could take what she takes. I'd have serious side effects with the Arginine and the L-Tyrosine.

My next thought is what is a more natural way to deal with the antibody issues? And again I wonder why the iodine levels were not tested. I have read about increased halides and the increase of Hashimoto's and Graves. Were any halide levels tested? It just seems to me that mainstream medicine just monitors a few things (like you said they even omit the antibodies) and just allows the thyroid to deteriorate.

I'm wondering if I should find my own ND and get some things tested.

I was also just reading in Kharrazian's brain book about the connection with blood sugar and acetylcholine. Interesting reading. Have you read his book on the thyroid?

[rhondalea]

Re Andi's list of supplements, you should see mine. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zn44zelam10swv/Supplements%20-%202013.10.06%20Daily.docx

I'm totally with you on your comment about doctors, and I think skepticism about all things is a very handy tool. Now that I don't work (and now that I have my brain back), I have plenty of time to research, so that's what I do. With luck, I may survive both my chosen medical professionals and my own self-medicating.

Kharrazian's method of dealing with antibody issues is to cut out gluten. Bang, zoom, you're fixed. That turned me off, because I'm neither celiac nor gluten-intolerant. I don't have the genes for either, and I don't react to the absence of gluten (except by going mad for the lack of bread--you will pry my French roll out of my cold, dead hands). I will have to look at his brain book for information about acetylcholine and blood sugar, though. Unfortunately, the damage done to my cholingeric receptors by benzyl alcohol was severe enough that I've needed the big guns (Aricept) to fix me. Lecithin helps, but it never would have been enough on its own.

I think the first step for anyone who wants to deal with all their health issues is genotyping. Admittedly, we're not there yet--it's all cutting edge stuff--but it offers a head start in understanding one's triggers and body failures. Of course, it'll be even easier once we reach the $1000 genome (or if the Personal Genome Project gets funding to start testing again), but for now, 1M snps (from 23andMe) is nothing to sneeze at.

Now I really need to get through Andi's list. Some things really niggled at me, but I want to look them up (at Natural Standard) to be sure I've got it right. The problem is that what she's taking has worked really well for her--she's cancer-free, against all predictions, so changing things is probably not a good idea even if it is making her antibodies rage a bit more than they would otherwise. In a choice between raging antibodies and cancer, the choice is not in doubt.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Oh, Rhonda. You are so my kind of person. Yes, surviving our chosen medical professionals and our self-medicating (though cheered on by my nut onc).

Totally with you on the gluten thing. It doesn't feel like a fit for me. Bread and pasta are essential to my life. I don't overdo, but I too am not going there. (Did do carb free for a yr -- Atkins, lost a tiny bit of weight, cooked more than I ever wanted to and just had to stop the insanity.)

'Lizbeth, I too am wondering why my iodine levels weren't checked. And a lot more. New endo guy (recommended by cardiologist, says he's brilliant and loves to talk -- sounds like a match to me!) is supposedly very thorough. He won't jump to do surgery, my cardio guy says.

I would never have taken Arginine or Tyrosine in yrs past. But when I ordered my Perfusia, which nut onc had recommended, the apothecary said they don't make it anymore and what it actually was was Arginine, so nut onc is now recommending that. And my EF is up to 65% vs 50%. Plus I feel great. Heart healthy. EKG, ECHO for small peri-cardial effusion (a forever gift from Taxotere), BP spot on. Even my pulse has lowered, which for me is a good thing.

And Tyrosine was a small part of a supplement holistic lady gave me for stomach, which I stopped cause it wasn't helping my IBS, but I searched the ingredients cause even when I didn't sleep well, I felt as if I had the next day. I traced it back to the Tyrosine and sure enough, it is a great pick me up to start the day and has something in it that ignores your lack of sleep. My dghtr, w/2 young kids, is always exhausted so I recommended this to her, and she loves it. It helps.

WHAT IS ACETYLCHOLINE? I will google. Or goggle as I prefer to say/type...

I too have a shopping bag full of rejected supplements that my body or my reading dissuaded me from taking. I may consider them some time in the future. Some I just outright throw in the garbage. I don't let myself get caught up in $$$ wasted as I used to. If it isn't good for your body, pass it on to another who likes it and gets along with it, or toss it, guilt-free. YOU DESERVE THAT.

My nut onc's suggestions are longer than my list. I cut some out. I don't need it all. But I do need all I am taking. And it is a job. A serious chore, swallowing all that twice a day.

I too took nut onc's advice re halving dosage rather than taking all at once. Simpler but not better.

I buy only CAPSULES. Tablets just don't go down as easily, or at all for that matter.

I do consequently consume about 10 glasses of water a day, which is good. I am well hydrated, flushing out the toxins...

I use NADA (Enada) for memory, focus, concentration. (My Mom had Alzheimers from mid 70s...) And it gives me energy.

Tried a supplement with a modicum of niacin (which I'd always avoided due to my 27 yrs of constant flushing/hot flashing -- which is like your trapped in your own skin, ON FIRE and can't breathe). That supplement was for my belly issues and I WAS DRIPPING FROM THE TOP OF MY HEAD TO MY WAIST, HAD THE WORST HEADACHE IN THE WORLD (and I never get headaches!!!), FELT LIKE I WAS GOING TO PASS OUT, HAD TO LAY DOWN/COLLAPSE MIDDAY ON BED.

I returned that supplement and now have added to my meds/supplements list for docs a warning that I cannot tolerate anything with niacin in it.

More to respond to, but I'll stop for now.

Am going to see a 4th dog. 1 yr old 5 lb maltese who has lived in a bathroom all its life and has no name. Others are willing to adopt it, but I am just going to give him a hug and some loving. I seem to have to. We don't want a 4th dog. I am not on crack. But, I am conflicted...

So, later, my friends...

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Rhonda,

Please share YOUR supplement list with me/us.

I am so excited to meet another person who has a list of many dozens of supplements! I've been searching for you for decades! Please, please -- share...

What are you into?

Love,
ANDI

[Aussie Girl]

Hi Andi,
I've been offline a few days with my own chemo.

It is really hard to keep good nutrition when you have IBS and then add diabetes and hypertension. Much easier than if you can eat a wide variety of wholesome food and do without supplements, but with your diet limitations make that impossible.

I definitely wouldn't give up gluten if there wasn't a sound reason to - I hate having to eat gluten and lactose free, but for me, it's better to do that than spend all night on the toilet.

You sound like you've been doing a good job on your nutrition for years, under difficult circumstances.

It's not that long until you see the new endocrinologist, so you can ask him about the iodine levels etc. I'd really like to see a further thyroid panel of blood tests a few months after the low TSH lot, to confirm there is a continuing problem.

Cheers
Aussie Girl

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Thanks, Aussie Girl.

I have checked way back to when my fav endocrin doc/lady was with me. I see 2007 -- low TSH and notes of hers HYPERTHYROID.

I once told me no more than 3,000 B-12 b/c of the hyper thing. I haven't gone higher, knowing that.

I now ask to be tested for B-12 along w/my D -- and I am low normal on D, even w/50,000 a wk (10,000 -- 5 days a wk -- I like breaking it down). And my B-12 is above normal by sev thousand.

I read that too much B-12 can't hurt you in several links.

Feel I could use another thousand at least, but am reticent to go there.

Would you think B-12 could cause the hyperthyroid???

My onc (not the nut onc in NY) says to stop B-12 cause the liver stores it for 5 yrs and I am above normal. He is brilliant and I adore him but he knows nothing re supplements.

I did stop -- for 2 days -- I was foggy, unable to focus, felt like utter crap on a stick and tried 2,000. Definitely need the 3,000. And, as I say, want more...

But TSH has apparently been low for a long time. Maybe it's my norm????

My BUN always comes in high I see on all my bld tests. I would ask the chemo nurses and doc why is that? No one really knows. Says I should drink more water.

LOL. Taking all my supplements -- I drink about 10 glasses of water a day!!!

My BUN being high seems to be "my" norm... It's always the same, and always registers high.

I should complain to the lab... :o)

Appreciate your input, Aussie...

[donocco]

I remember an article in some medical journal in the 1990s. They gave 200mcg Selenium every day to about 5000 doctors to see if it could prevent non-melanoma skin cancer. It didnt. But the rate of Prostate cancer was decreased by 63% in the men taking Selenium, the rate of Colon cancer by 50% and the overall death rate from cancer dropped 50%. All from taking 200mcg Selenium daily. Interesting. I forgot which journal it was.


Paul

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Have contacted my wonderful first endo lady's office and they are forwarding my records to the new endocrinologist today. I see new guy Dec 13...

He will have both previous endo's records to go on. I am so relieved that I dared to try. It's been yrs since fab doc moved (and I feared my files which bad endo lady declined to get -- what would mess up her filing system??? WHO DOESN'T WANT A FULL-ER PICTURE OF A PATIENT'S MED HISTORY!!?? -- I thought maybe my records had gone to the IRON MOUTAIN, which is apparently like a giant black hole rendering everything therein irretrievable).

So, that office still has my records!! And, I was faxed an authorization to forward them and -- it's in the works! Yay!

I used to be so tidy about keeping copies of my records, but I have become disorganized and overwhelmed I suppose. Shame on me.

I did find some notes from great endo lady saying I was hyperthyroid in '07 and she just told me to stick w/the 3,000 B-12 and not up it. She never panicked.

Now that bad endo lady had me take thyroid scan and nodes were noted, I have to follow up yearly (though she was egging me on within mnths to repeat!!!). Recently had new thyroid scan, getting old records, and STABLE. So that's good.

I was warned, btw, that after core needle biopsy (so much a bigger deal than I ever dreamed) they will want to do ev 6 mnth U/S to check. Seriously. My regimen, like YOURS, is ridiculously overcrowded with appointments vs fun stuff... But, I am still alive to complain away, and I have YOU all to commiserate with me. No big deal. Just clutters up my "calendar".

Going this Fri to new gastro guy for IBS out of control since last June's abdominal surgery (BENIGN messentery mass) but did not make my IBS happy.

Geez, Louise...

And, this is no big whoop compared to so many of you! I have a bit of guilt even mentioning...

Love you all,
Andi

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

FINALLY! An update.

Got to see big endo man (who is a surgeon, but doesn't overreact and sell himself). Very bright. Listens. Gets it. Gets me.

Had my records as I prearranged a mnth ago in anticipation.
He told me I had 22 nodes. I did not know this. Only was told multiple. He put me on his table and ultrasounded his way around. Had a doc he was teaching, so I heard his dialogue with him and he also spoke directly to me. Lots of info. I love this! Not over my head. Full of details.

He investigated every single one of my nodes. Each from various angles. Those that look like comets are almost always benign. Those that look spongy -- same... On and on.

He sees absolutely no reason to be concerned. Nothing suspicious. No reason to biopsy. Most radiologists would say biopsy but he says I do not need this.

He also took lots of notes and sent his thoughts to my internist (as I now do not have an actual endocrinologist, having severed ties with the one who did not ever explain, discuss, included me in decisions as to how to proceed. Who thought I was hyperthyroid based on my low TSH and thought I might have a goiter.

We never discussed her read of my U/S, just that there were multiple nodes and they must be closely monitored and she could biopsy them. And she wanted me to go to the hospital for the uptake 123 test with radioactive iodine done on 2 consecutive days. Inject, wait, U/S or xray. Then repeat next day.

Doc surgeon said -- I am not hyperthyroid. I do not have a goiter. I could be followed by my internist. If my TSH is within 0 and 4 -- not to worry. If becomes elevated, return to him or see another endocrinologist. I have a lead on one for my husband and my dghtr.

I feel very relieved.

I have a batch of suggested blood tests from him, from cardiologist, from oncologist -- going next week. (NOTE: Have been down to only 1 immune booster a day w/200 selenium. THANK YOU FOR THE WAKE UP CALL ON THAT!)

I do not ever really take vitamin combos. I take 1 vitamin at a time. Isolating it, in capsule form if possible, preferably vegetarian. I don't like small amnts of this or that. I like to be in control. That 1 immune booster, which was affordable (vs the really expensive others) forced me to break my rule.

So hoping for YOUR supplements lists, ladies. So I can peruse and study. We need to share. We learn. Knowledge is always good. If not for us, to pass on to someone in need.

Oncologist today (every 6 mnth checkup). June I do my now annual (I have come a long, long, long way from ev 8 wks, to ev 3 mnths, then I recall begging for ev 4 mnths and was granted that but with a stern stipulation that NO LONGER... Finally I was semi annual and now -- annual AND WITH "NO" CONTRAST. WOOHOO. Blood work ev 6 mnths.

I'm the longest living Survivor of this onc. He says he talks about me all the time. Gives people hope. I do not have to tell you how much this means to me! It is a part of my mission! I am here for you. Anytime. That's what Sisters do...

When I finish my book, I pray it will reach many more and inspire and touch many more. When you have a goal that is for good, it will come to be! I BELIEVE!

If you have a doc who doesn't confer with you, listen to you, show a caring spirit, include you in team decisions (cause IT'S YOUR LIFE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT), if you have a doc whose staff doesn't return phone calls repeatedly even and especially during anxious times (trying to schedule scans, get biopsy results, get test results) -- you need to find another doc!

I am always a lady. But I do not allow others to disrespect me, especially when it comes to my health and well-being. That is the very least we can expect.

Now some surgeons are brilliant but have no time to talk or interest in advising or informing you. My onc today said when he has a choice of recommending one of those vs a really nice not so great surgeon, he goes with the former. I nodded. Exceptions have to be made. And surgeons are notorious for this inability to communicate.

When I had my core needle biopsy last August I truly lucked out. Excellent surgeon who was lovely and compassionate, and involved and talked me through from before till after. Sometimes there's a perfect storm. Plus -- it was benign.

Damn thing did hurt a lot more than I expected. Tender for quite a while in fact. Took much longer than I expected. But we got the job done. The something new was a little nothing. As I wish for each of you.

XOXO

Andi

[Jackie07]

"I feel very relieved."

Wow, Andi, what a scare ...

Glad everything has turned out fine. You take it easy now (and easy on the supplement ... :)

[conomyself]

This is great Andi! And I'm glad you found an endo you like.

Love,

Rachael