Off topic..kinda. (YMMV)

[Rich66]

Not completely sure whether this is applicable to women but....

After reading of estrogenic effects of coffee (reg or decaf) and mom agreeing to give it up, I have been doing the caffeine..decaf dance with this beverage for some time.
Anyways..
I have always had difficulty maintaining a moderate level of consumption with the caffeinated version. I kept falling into drinking it with a "crisis" requiring going without sleep etc. and finding a little was good and it eventually required more to keep up the effect. Then sleep would suffer and I would tend to get more colds etc.
Anyways..I like to run and have had various issues with my knees on a seemingly inconsistent basis.
Bottom line:
After examining consumption patterns and trying different supplements to combat joint issues, I have come to the conclusion that coffee of any sort makes my joints flare up.
I am not taking any meds to speak of so it seems pretty clear to me at this point.
My mom, after years of stiffness attributed to Arimidex, seemed to get so much better after eliminating coffee in addition to various anti inflammatory supplements.
Due to expense of her regimen, I take a generic basic "joint formula" glucosomine, boswellia etc. But that was not enough when on the coffee train.
I love the taste of coffee and hate to say gooodbye but.. I have been enjoying a spurt of really warm weather..running every day and not having any of the joint issues I was chalking up to age (45) etc.
Regarding caffeine, first 3 days or so were crappy..but eventually I felt much more normal and less prone to irritation etc.
My $.02

[Pray]

Hi Rich does this include (green) tea caffenne? I was er pr positive. My nutrionist said I should drink 3 to 4 gasses a day. So of coarse I drink 4. (I'm always worrying if I'm doing the right things when no one knows for sure!)

[Rich66]

I don't think it has anything to do with the caffeine, though that has its own problems.
Green tea seems to have many anti cancer qualities (http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44079). From what I've been able to gather, the caffeine in green tea plays out differently than coffee's caffeine. But you could also drink liquid process decaf green tea or take decaf green tea supplements like Capsol-T (http://www.newcancerresearch.com/howitworks.htm).
But your instinct regarding delineating ER+ issues , I think, is a good one. There are "anti cancer" products and approaches that upon investigation don't mate well with an ER+ situation. And unless constant biopsy is available, hard to be certain when ER is present/active.

[Pray]

Thank you Rich. I appreciate your post!

[gdpawel]

Reported in an issue of Nutrition and Cancer, investigators had shown that in green tea, the main active component is epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG). In this study, they examined the effect of green tea on breast cancer growth and endothelial cells in in vitro assays and in animal models. They compared the potency of the different catechin components of green tea extract (GTE), including EGCG. Their data showed that mixed GTE and its individual catechin components were effective in inhibiting breast cancer and endothelial cell proliferation. In mouse experiments, GTE suppressed xenograft size and decreased the tumor vessel density. Their results demonstrated the value of all catechins and argued for the use of a mixed GTE as a botanical dietary supplement, rather than purified EGCG, in future clinical trials.

Greg

[Pray]

Thank you Greg, You are appreciated also!

[Debbie L.]

I have no answers (and don't think anyone does). But I wanted to say that I am increasingly wary of reductionism, especially in regards to dietary claims and studies.

Google it (reductionism), and/or read some of Michael Pollan's books. Even if you don't agree with him, it will be an entertaining (and easy) read.

Once again -- I fear it's far more complex than we would wish.

Debbie Laxague

[gdpawel]

Research on epigenetics at Johns Hopkins has been proving orthodox oncology wrong about diet. Evidence from their research suggests that the epigenome can be influenced by the environment which means that epigenetic modifications that lead to carcinogenesis may be reversible by changing the environment.

What is meant by environment? The environment is the totality of surrounding conditions - the milieu of the cell. What affects the milieu of the cell? Toxins, viruses, carcinogens, diet, essentially everything that our cells are exposed to. Detoxification followed by the creation of a healthy milieu with appropriate diet and supplements benefits cancer patients.

Such a concept is heresy to the orthodoxy within the oncology community that determines research priorities. The viability of detoxification (removing toxins, viruses, carcinogens and other biological contaminants from the body) followed by improving what a patient consumes (organic, whole, vegetarian foods, vitamin supplements, etc.) as a cancer therapy has been summarily rejected by the cancer establishment for decades (most cancer patients are offered artificially colored, sugared and preserved foods during their hospital stays).

Despite the growing empiric and anecdotal data that demonstrate that these factors do play a role in distinguishing long-term cancer survivors, the orthodoxy within the oncology community has rejected such treatment approaches as worthless. Part of their reasoning has included that there are no biological mechanisms to support such a modality. However, epigenetics is providing a plausible biological mechanism.

Is detoxification and diet a viable cancer modality by itself or in combination with other approaches? There are many long-term survivors who swear it is and offer their existence as proof. What is clear is that our body and the environment are one, as epigenetics proves, the environment can effect how our genes work within our cells.

As epigenetics has become an accepted science perhaps it is time researchers took the next step and asked what role epigenetics may play in reversing cancer and what lifestyle decisions and exposures may impact such a role. Perhaps some resources focused on the mechanistic, reductionist and overwhelmingly failed gene therapies can be redirected.

[Pray]

I'm sure I don't believe in all the changes I've made in my diet but, It sure makes me feel like im in on the fight!

[Rich66]

The only 'ism I'm engaging in is Rich-ism.
Rich feels noticeably better in the joints when not drinking coffee. For folks dealing with meds that seem to alter their joint comfort/function, it's a pretty manageable thing to investigate.
Green tea (http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44079) and cancer is another thing to investigate. I'm all about expansion of the cancer treatment toolbox.

[Pray]

I concur, do you think the same applies to the muscles around the joint if that is where pain is and not in the joint itself?

[Rich66]

My issues seemed to be in joints...mostly knees. But I wouldn't be surprised if the muscles are involved.