Get My Act together

[MJo]

A few months ago I complained on this board about weight gain and how I was back to my unhealthy lifestyle. The past few months it got even worse: A woman who has been helped my my agency is grateful. She works for Panera Bread and several times a week leaves a bagful of leftovers in the staff lounge. At least Panera has better quality than some of the junk you can buy in the supermarket. My co-workers and I polish off the goodies in the shopping bag in one day, whenever she brings it. I have got to start ignoring that bag!!!

I just read Dr. Servan Schreiber's AntiCancer: A new Way of Life. While I read these books with healthy scepticism, I can relate to him. After his first bout with brain cancer, his diet remained "Western" He ate a cup of chili, a bagel and a coke for lunch at the hospital cafeteria every day. How I understand! After his relapse he became careful about his diet. His list of dos and donts and foods to eat or avoid is pretty simple. I have also started using turmeric, but I read that people with gallstones have to be careful. So I'm monitoring gastro aches and pains.

I hope I can improve my diet and get back to exercising, because I have put myself at risk for heart disease, and my high sugar consumption has made my body a great "feeder" for cancer cells.

I don't think I can totally emulate Dr. S. He writes about how happy a meal of vegetables, peas, fruit and a little bread makes him today. My reaction was "Are you crazy." I do, however, plan to improve my bad eating habits of the past year. I did okay for about 3 years after my diagnosis. I want to get back on track.

[Gerri]

MJO,

I know you can do this, because you have done it in the past. I remember a few years back when you wrote about your success with Weight Watchers - you inspired me to join and I have lost 60 lbs on the program. I can relate with your reluctance to rejoin because no one likes to go back and start over again - but if you look around you will see that so many in that room have joined again and again. For me, I honestly can't count how many times I joined, lost weight, never made it goal, and put the weight back on. I am closer to goal than I have been in a long time and I am going to make it this time. I am not saying that it is easy. These past few weeks at work I have had to resist Girl Scout Cookies, candy, Krispie Kreme Donunts, and the list goes on and on. I have found that each time I resist, it makes the next time easier. The pride that I feel is so much better than the guilt that haunts me if I give in to temptation. I am determined to make it to my goal and am confident that I will. I feel so much better and love having to buy smaller clothes.

You really can do this. If the mind set is there, the behavior will follow. I admire you for putting this out there - it shows that you are ready to begin again.

I wish you all the best in your weight loss efforts. There are so many of us who really do know exacly how you feel.

[Shobha]

MJO,

As Gerri said, you can do it! You have my best wishes to make a transition to healthy diet a success.

hugs,
shobha

[caya]

I'm right there with you MJo - The two years before I got diagnosed I was in the best shape in a long time. - I was going to Curves 4-5x/week, I was really watching my diet, etc. I have gained about 35 lbs since then, mostly since being on Tamoxifen and Femara.
I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia last Spring, and there are some days I can barely move, let alone work out. I am reluctant to rejoin Curves as I have mild lymphedema in my right hand/arm, and I am skeptical of the machines with the weight lifting aspect. I try to walk on my treadmill or outside when the weather permits, but it is very frustrating because it seems that unless I am eating maybe 1100 calories/day or less, with no carbs, I can lose a few pounds.
I have an appointment this week with a clinical dietician at the hospital where I had my mast. - she specializes in BC patients. I hope she can give me some idea of what to do ...

all the best
caya

[PinkGirl]

Let me know what she tells you Caya. I have gained steadily since
chemo ... my doc sort of blames it on the arimidex. I'm like you ... have
to eat like a bird to lose a pound. Ugh! I gained weight on WeightWatchers.

[caya]

I will definitely report back, Pink. I see both my onc. and the dietician on Thurs. I know my onc. is going to chide me for not losing weight - he told me last Sept. to lose it, and I know I have to, and I have tried. I'm seeing the dietician first, so when I see my onc. I'll show him whatever she advises. His advice to me was to cut out carbs (no bread, no pasta, no potatoes etc.) Easy for him to say, and I have tried that and the scale barely budges, so why should I deprive myself?

all the best
caya

[Becky]

It will be interesting. As Pink Girl knows, I USED to have no problem controlling my weight. I ran about 30 miles a week. Then I had to revert to walking and trendmill hill climbing due to an ankle difficulty and last year's bad icy winter. So, I have not been on a run since May 2009 and barely ran the winter of 2008/2009. You will be happy to know that I have gained 12 lbs and it won't budge. I think I need 90 minute hill workouts, no carbs and little meat. I am not used to the will power part either. I am used to eating 1800-2200 calories a day (as Pink will attest) and being able to maintain my weight (of which I did need to lose 10 lbs but now its 25)!

For me, I think its the activity factor - hard and long almost every day - period. I don't even eat badly either. I do think that without the running, those carbs have to really go (not the fruits and veggies but the potatoes, rice and bread). I just don't move around as fast and hard as I used to. Maybe I'll try that out and after a year off, I might try to go on runs again when the weather is good - otherwise just my treadmill hills.

I was thinking some weight training might help - build muscle and boost metabolism.

[Rich66]

I think it's helpful to have good alternatives that make avoiding carbs (http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=39588) less like punishment. If you're a chocoholic (like me), a whey protein drink with cocoa and stevia tastes good, has lots of anti cancer ingredients and gives a sustaining energy. Mixing some microwaved unsweetened baking cocoa chips with Stevia and a bit of peanut butter is indulgent without the carbs. You can put it in those mini foil cups for portability.
Seems like most green vegetables are low in carbs. Think salmon with asparagus and olive oil. More punishment please.

[Mary Jo]

Hi MJO......This from the other Mary Jo.....thanks for your honesty and for your admitting you are human.http://her2support.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon7.gif I am too. I'm always working on my health....always. Every day I tell myself I will eat healthy. Some days I do and some days I don't. When I don't I feel so rotten - not only physically (when I O.D. on sugar) but mentally because I know I am not caring for myself the way I should. Not only because I have had cancer - but because it isn't good for me period.

Thankfully, my cholesterol levels are awesome - my HDL (good cholesterol) is 101 - my LDL (bad) is 116 (in the range it should be) and my TRIG are 50 (very low - and that's good) - often times that gives me the go ahead to eat what I want because genetically I just have great cholesterol AND it isn't because I do all the right things. I do exercise but nothing extreme.

Like Becky.....I had an injury too - knee - so had to take it easy. That didn't help me - physically or mentally - made me kind of lazy and feeling bad so I'd reach for this or that.

I did start a weight training program - just at home. A physical trainer set it up for me - that's helped - and I continue to do my power walking (but no more running - afraid of hurting my knee again) - I'll continue to try each day to eat the right things and avoid those things that I shouldn't eat - at least in excess.

My weight is ok - thankfully. I've taken some weight off but always trying to take off more. OH THE JOYS.

Thanks MJO - for bringing it up - it's nice to hear that we're not alone in the struggle.

Happy you're doing well..........Hugs.......

the OTHER Mary Jo

[Jean]

As we age it gets harder and harder to drop those pounds which used to come off much easier only 10 yrs. ago.

Last week I had started eating a veggie soup type of diet....for lunch and a small bowl for dinner then some protein. It was not hard since I do enjoy the veggies.
I did drop 4 pds the first week. I took this week off from
the diet and cheated with some wine and a small desert.
but I was carefull with what I eat. Still had my veggies,
smaller portions more often. Even had a small portion of red meat. Lost 1.5 this week.
Walked and walked alot. Would leave the car a great distance from where I had to be and walked the rest of the way. Like Becky just can't run anymore.
But I do a power walk.

Just stuff yourself on veggies good size portions throughtout the day eat smaller meals more often.

It's just not easy....but oh, bathing suit weather is a coming......ugh...

Jean :)

[MJo]

Thanks everyone. Rich, I just tried Agave. Will look into Stevia. I also wondered if Arimidex/Femara is partly to blame for my weight gain. But I have only one more year on Femara. I'm worried about losing that comforting protection next year, and I want to be able to protect myself without Femara, using diet and exercise, I guess. We are all in this together.

[caya]

MJo, I use Stevia regularly - I make a jug of iced tea every couple of days with it. Boil up water, put about 8 tea bags into a pitcher, pour in the hot water. Let it steep and cool down for about 1/2 hour. Take out the tea bags, and then add Stevia. Try a couple of tablespoons at first, stir it up, taste. If you need more Stevia, add it in.

I use only decaffinated green tea/herbal flavoured teas. Makes a nice refreshing drink that's good for you. I stopped drinking caffeine free diet coke after I was diagnosed, and this is a great substitute. Virtually no calories. I rarely drink pure fruit juices now because of the calories, no more pop etc. It's basically water and iced tea with stevia now for me.

[RhondaH]

I raise my hand as well...AND ironically enough, my downfall initially was a foot injury and then with work hours changing, I REALLY got off track...maybe we can start a "Back on the Wagon Again" thread, NOT posting weight or specifics, but mainly how are we doing in going back to our healthy habits and offering each other support. I'm with ya girls;) Take care and God bless.

[Patb]

Put me on the list. After almost 4 years on Arimidex
and trying to exercise to help that, I fell and had a concussion and the Dr. said hold off for awhile!!! Not
good, what a difference, now is time to get back at
it. I need encouragement and do not get much. Will
have to encourage myself. Ha
patb

[MJo]

I was at my survivors support group last night, and I asked the question "what's everyone doing, diet and exercise wise, to protect themselves from recurrence." Much to my surprise, most of us were doing nothing! I am not alone, I see.

[Joan M]

Yes, that's the bottom-line. Nobody's doing anything. So, when are we going to meet for brunch again? After the holidays? Becky?

Luv ya,

Joan

[v-ness]

hey MJo- my sister just bought me that book and i too am currently reading it with great interest. like you, i am not going to radically change my lifestyle because - hey - lots of "healthy" people have gotten BC too. i'm taking the parts i like and applying them to myself and also learning a great deal. i stopped using sugar in my coffee and got stevia and i am getting that agave nectar for my green tea to lessen my sugar intake. but i will certainly bite the head off a (dark) chocolate bunny for easter!

i have been walking to radiation several times a week. it is 3 miles round trip. it's nice to be able to work exercise into my treatment and i think it is helping ward off fatigue because i am finishing week 4 with no problem there. :) and i lost 7 lbs! i even do a little meditation while i am in radiation itself. learning not to fly off the handle about stupid stuff and be more zen, that kind of stuff. eat more organic (i'd be bankrupt if i went all organic). i even cut my hotdog intake down to 2 hebrew nationals every 3 months. (a girl's gotta live)

i think too many people deprive themselves and make weight loss into a terrible ordeal when it could be OK if people would only cut themselves some slack and be human. yeah, so i ate rocky road ice cream last night. today's a new day. my favorite part of exercise is that they say that it decreases your chances of recurrence. all the more reason to tie on those nikes!

i haven't yet finished the book, but like you MJo, i trust him more because he's had/has cancer and he doesn't claim that what he imparts will CURE you or keep you from dying anyway. plus i like the scientist side of him and how perfectly it melds with the writer side that makes things completely comprehensible for those of us who need things simple.

i'd highly recommend the book too. i'm highlighting the hell out of it. valerie

[Jackie07]

I think regular exercise is definitely the key! Dont' worry about weight; it will come off (or add up) at the right time.

Was quite underweight when I was diagnosed with BC both times. Actually, every time I was experiencing tumor growth (brain tumor and recurrence, breast cancer and recurrence), I was 5-10 lbs below my normal weight and about 15 lbs under my ideal weight.

Eat a healthy diet and exercise regularly. When you are feeling good, whatever that scale tells you will be your ideal weight.

[v-ness]

this thread reminds me of julia child's quote, "everything in moderation, including moderation." she had a mastectomy and went on to live another 36 years full of butter and cream. she even said she owed her survival to "steak & gin". she may not have had an enviable figure, but she sure did enjoy life, didn't she? -v

[Hopeful]

I thought everyone attempting weight loss through exercise would be interested to see this new study, which I also posted on a thread in the Diet and Nutrition Forum:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/303/12/1173

In short, the study found healthy women of normal weight who do not reduce their caloric intake during middle age have to do a lot of exercise just to keep from gaining weight.

Hopeful

[Karen Wheel]

Well, I've lost almost 30 pounds since I started this journey in my Cancer bootcamp the last year. I finish my Herceptin this next monday --- YAH! And... the diet and supplements that I am taking is making a huge difference in my attitude, strength and overall 'look'! I feel pretty darn sexy these days (okay, still missing a chunk of the right breast - but I was sunbathing topless the other day on our private beach at Carlos work --- only him and I!) So --- losing the 30 pounds has really helped overall I think.

Cutting out sugar and almost completely giving up animal products (yes, cheese, meat, sausage - all which are hard to do in ITALY!) but I feel great and occasionally have a bite of chicken or meat to taste it and its enough.

For those who haven't seen my favorite book list:
Favorite Books:


The Cancer Battle Plan Sourcebook (this is the updated version) - by David Frahm
Crazy Sexy Cancer Survivor – by Kris Carr
Beating Cancer with Nutrition – by Patrick Quillin PhD, RD, CNS
Eat to Live – by Joel Fuhrman, MD
The Gerson Therapy – The amazing nutritional program for cancer and other illnesses – by Charlotte Gerson and Morton Walker, DPM
All of these have many of the same theories -but overall they all say --- give up sugar and eat loads of fresh (raw) veggies and beans and whole grains.

:-) We really "are" what we eat!

Go veggies! Karen

[PinkGirl]

Thanks Hopeful .... that article said one hour per day of exercise to
maintain a normal weight ... once you hit middle age.

So that must mean more than one hour per day of exercise to lose
weight ... that's a lot ... yikes ...

[AlaskaAngel]

Hi Pink Girl,

Unless I am missing something here, it means that those who need to lose weight not only have to exercise more than an hour a day, but they also will be hungrier because they did exercise more, and they will have to continue to eat the same amount they would have eaten normally if they did not exercise any additional time.

Seven days a week means no time off for good behavior (or any kind of interruptions that are part of the everyday human existence).

I hope medical providers will start explaining this to patients so that everybody will know what to expect, and there will be more real understanding and more help with it after completion of treatment.

A.A.

[Laurel]

Well, guys, the weight gain is a bummer, for sure. I agree providers should warn us about the gain that is associated with the forced menopause. I am guessing they know some of us would choose to forgo the treatment than gain the 30 odd pounds my practitioner now admits is expected.

The other week I clambered onto the scale and noted with despair that the needle had inched up yet again! The notion of stopping the A.I.s did cross my mind, I confess. In real anguish I slumped down onto the side of the tub and stared at the scale.

Then it hit me. I HAD to do something. What? Eat less. That was all I could come up with. Eat less. A lot less.

I have been eating less. For me to lose weight I must eat around 1000-1200 calories, little or no bread, little meat, lots of veggies and fruits, more veggies than fruits. I have lost 8lbs in two weeks. I must exercise, but I had started a treadmill program. I jog, walk, and change the elevation for 45mins while reading a book or listening to the radio. Soon it will be nice enough to go out for my walk/jogs and that will lift my spirits.

Mind you, I have a very long way to go, but it is a start. Rich will be disappointed to know I still drink my morning joe and have the odd piece of candy daily.

I'll keep you posted. It will be a slow go, but at least that needle has moved in the opposite direction!

[Rich66]

Aaaaaaarg! ;) Dammit Laurel.

Are any of you trying green tea yet? It's a diet aid and cancer fighter. You know...seems like a perfect fit.

[caya]

Rich -

I drink decaf green tea. I often make a big pitcher of it, sweeten it with Stevia and put it in the fridge - voila - iced tea.

all the best
caya

[Laurel]

For green to be an effective cancer fighter, Caya, it must be steeped for a 5-10 mins and consumed within the hour. After that the cati-somethings deteriorate.

Rich, I take green tea supplements and I do drink the stuff. I just hate to begin the morning with yukky-old-green-tea. You know us Yanks and our coffee! Now I do drink organic coffee that I roast myself if that floats your boat a bit better. I know, I know, it's the possible estrogen mimicking property of coffee you are concerned about, Rich. Of course, there is the great flax and soy debate that rages regarding estrogen positive BC and the consumption of these, but I still use ground flax seed and go easy on the soy.

Fat produces its own estrogen, so I do think it wise to shed the pounds despite the effect of the A.I.s essentially giving us the estrogen level of the elderly. Well, today is another battle to wage on the fat cells. Wish me luck!

[caya]

Thanks for the tip regarding the green tea Laurel - I do usually drink one hot mug/day - but I'll steep it longer.

Good luck gals, hopefully we'll all drop a few this spring.

all the best
caya

[AlaskaAngel]

The mutual support among us is outstanding and so is the positive focus.

I would like to think that we are considering the widest possible group of people in trying to deal with these problems.

I believe that for the greatest good for the most people here, it would be most helpful to look at this problem in terms of the people who are stuck with it and who are also stuck with problems such as less freedom to get the daily exercise, or to have the right foods... people who are challenged by having other chronic health conditions, or family issues, or not enough resources.

Those are the people who, along with ourselves, would truly benefit from progress in determining if there is anything that could be offered that might help us beyond going hungry, dieting, and exercise. I think it will take having more of us NOT just accept the status quo, but actively pursuing and pushing for appointments with providers who are knowledgeable about endocrine balance, to get them to focus on the problem. We don't yet know whether there is something that we could use with proper diet and exercise to make it possible to achieve proper weight and maintain it, such as some medication that is currently being used for diabetics or the like but not used for us based on our having "normal" lab results compared to the diabetics.

Given that so many of us make progress only to see it lost at times when we have to take a break to focus on family matters, or dealing with an injury of some kind, we really do need the assistance of providers with a background in endocrinology and metabolism to help us out. If that support isn't there right now, then maybe we are the ones who need to actively try to get that put in place for everyone.

AlaskaAngel

[caya]

Excellent point AlaskaAngel about us Her2+ BC survivors, been through chemo and Herceptin - what part did these play in our weight loss (basically a lack of weight loss, more like weight gain)? And some of us are on AIs, antidepressants - some of the s/es are know to be weight gain. I am sick of the status quo - I don't feel I should have to starve and exercise rigorously every day and not see the scale move.

I suffer from fibromyalgia - as I have said, there are days when I can barely move, never mind exercise. I think your idea about seeing an endocrinologist and perhaps being put on some kind of meds is a valid idea. I am going to call the BC dietician I saw last week and ask her about this.

Let's keep this thread going and perhaps others can input their ideas, suggestions, etc.

all the best
caya

[AlaskaAngel]

For the benefit of those just starting out, I'm going to list some of the mistakes I've made over the 8 years since diagnosis and treatment.

1. During my 6 episodes of chemotherapy, I had double the customary dose of steroids because they couldn't get the CAF in me at the treatment center before I would throw up, and at least part of the reason the steroids are given is so that we can make it home before starting to throw up. That way medical providers don't have to be there to either help or see what it is like for us over and over, and that helps them stay a lot more cheery and positive about the logic for giving stage 1 patients a drug that most of us never needed in the first place. Newer treatments don't seem to cause as much in the way of vomiting. Using the least amount of steroids might help. I notice that Caya and I and Pink Girl all went through treatment with either CAF or CEF, and I wonder about the amount of steroids we all had in support of that treatment. I know that some women have refused steroids. I am not advising anyone to do that, but it is a legitimate question to consider. One might, for example, favor doing ovarian ablation plus an AI instead of chemoablation through chemotherapy, since overian ablation would not require the repeated use of steroids.

2. By a slight margin, the majority of patients do gain weight with treatment. I had never had a problem losing weight whenever I wanted to and so wasn't as focused on not gaining during treatment, and as noted above, the treatment itself made exercise harder for me to do. i wish I would have exercised more during treatment. But any exercise a person can keep up during treatment should help.

3. All of us are trying to eat healthier now than we did before, especially getting rid of foods that are not as nutritious. I have always eaten healthy foods, but had I known how hard it was going to be to lose weight after treatment I would have tried harder to avoid starchy "comfort" foods during treatment.

4. At the time of completion of chemotherapy, I had no idea my metabolism had genuinely changed and there was no counseling provided about that change, so I didn't know eating the way I always had would be a problem. I was happy to be done with treatment and thought I could return to eating normally, and that wasn't true for me and I didn't know it. Be aware that treatment is likely to significantly change your metabolism permanently.

5. I began exercising to try to lose the weight. At least 2 factors are important to consider in exercising after gaining. One is that I was a lot clumsier and not used to it, especially in terms of being able to keep my balance with all that added weight. The other is that I was used to being able to do a fairly decent amount of exercise, and so I went right at it full force. Both of these things can result in injury and that is what happened to me. My knees swelled up immediately to where I could not get up the stairs inside our house, and it took several weeks of having to sit on each step and pull myself up step by step before my knees settled down, and even longer before I could start again to do any serious exercise with my legs. I should have started exercising gradually, and built up from there.

6. It took 6 long years to lose the weight I had gained. Strict dieting and 1/2 hour of vigorous aerobic exercise a day were not enough, and for me it took giving up 2 meals a day as well. When I followed advice and added back in those meals plus an additional half hour of exercise, I actually gained weight very slowly. I was eating a maximum of 1350 calories a day and exercising. I was told that I was just "gaining muscle weight" and that "more food inside weighs more" so I continued the added food and exercise -- and continued to slowly gain weight. I changed my exercise to include both aerobic and resistance exercise, and nothing changed. I was told that I needed to add the extra food to get my metabolism to "burn hotter". For me, adding the extra food and exercise just added more calories and I was sacrificing 30 more minutes a day without getting any stronger or losing weight -- and in order to actually lose weight, I still had to eat less and go hungry again anyway. There are myths about exercise and dieting. I am still doing aerobic and resistance exercise and am still on a strict diet, but at least now I know what some of the myths are, and I know why that for me it takes going hungry to lose any weight. By following the false information I'd been given about this, and because of a short duration of recovery from a back injury that interrupted my exercise routine, within 1 1/2 years I had gained all of the weight back that I had lost over the 6 years earlier.

I hope others can use this information in deciding what to do in their own situation.

A.A.

[Hopeful]

Apparently, there is a clinical term for this pheonomenom - "sarcopenic obesity," caused by breast cancer treatment. Here is a link to a paper discussing this that was known since 1978. This should be part of the SE's disclosed up front, no doubt about it: http: http://jco.ascopubs.org/cgi/content/full/19/9/2367

Hopeful

[AlaskaAngel]

What would the long-term survival rate be for early stage breast cancer patients, the majority of whom never need any treatment beyond surgery, if they never did the steroids that come with chemotherapy?

[MJo]

I am happy to report I am back at the gym. Unhappy to report that I have been eating chocolate easter bunnies. Delicious. I also am going to change my asthma med. Although weight gain and water retention isn't on the list of side effects for singulair, some people online claim it happened to them. I am definitely bloated and have begun to wonder if it's singulair. Also read that 11% of women on Femara gain weight as a side effect. To me that means it's more likely that 25-50% of women gain weight on Femara!