OK...was I rude when I said this?

[RhondaH]

I was just on my way to the restroom when I ran into a fellow coworker who was recently dx w/ Stage 1, ER+, PR+, HER2- bc and is currently going through radiation. She has only had 7 and was saying that it was too much to go get treatment every day and wanted to quit (is floored that part of her lung may be getting hit too and doesn't know why they are doing this). I tried explaining to her why and told her that MY treatment lasted 1 1/2 years and in "my" opinion, radiation was a cake walk (I know it's not like this for everyone, but it was for me). She said goodbye and stormed out. OK, was I rude? Thank you.

Rhonda

[Alice]

Ok, so you were a little rude. I also think the radiation was a walk in the park compared to the rest. She may have been looking for some sympathy and wasn't expecting your comment. If you feel as though it would help you could suggest that you are only concerned about her health and the importance of finishing treatment. A support group I go to occaisionally had a lady one night that felt as though she couldn't relate to the others because she didn't have to go through chemo. After hearing what others had to go through she was glad to have only surgery and rads. Maybe your co-worker is like this lady?
Still I wouldn't fret over it much.
Alice

[naturaleigh]

I do know that everyone is different. Radiation was hard for me and I had the same concerns as she did. I did quit for awhile for 2 reasons, 1) because of the heart issue and 2) because I was getting really burned despite the cream they gave me. I do know that for me, if I had to do it all over again, I would not have done radiation.

This is a stressful for everyone involved, especially for the newly diagnosed. It is also very stressful because I know most of us were very healthty upon diagnois, so it is a big blow when we are told we have cancer and we do everything we can to stay healthy. That is where radiation with the heart issue hit me, because I never had heart issues and I did not want to start now, especially from radiation. What I would tell her is to listen to instincts about radiation. From the get go I was very apprehensive about radiation and I am still beating myself up for going through the whole 36 rounds.

So no, I don't think you were rude, you were just trying to help. It takes awhile to get your head wrapped around the fact that this is actually happening, after it sinks in, I bet she will thank you for trying to help.

[Sherryg683]

Yes, a little. I think a pep talk would have been better. Encourage her that she can get through it. Physically radiation wasn't that hard for me but it took it's emotional toll. It was very hard for me to be there every day. Always remember people respond to treatments differently...sherryg683

[Colleens_Husband]

Rhonda:

If you were a guy, then not only would you be polite, but you would have the maximum chops on her. You told her that you made it through worse and she can too. In a guy way, you did your best to be encouraging and supportive. If she were a guy, after she got over being mad she would thank you for helping her get over herself and then you would go do some manly activity like shooting a defenseless animal, yanking a defenseless fish out of the water, or driving over defenseless squirrels with a four-wheeled drive vehicle and you would be bonded forever because she knew you are a straight-shooter who would be willing to risk friendship to help her out.

If you were a guy.

But there are different rules for women and even though you didn't mean to put her down, she realizes that you had it worse than she did and that she really ought to cowgirl up. So now what do you do? Perhaps you may wish to consider phoning her up, admitting that you may have inadvertently trivialized her own travails. And then you can go do something manly together and bond forever. Except for the manly part.

Lee

[Monica]

Lee,
You are too funny. Sometimes I wish I were a guy. Their lives seems so much simpler... Well, maybe I would skip running over the squirrel bonding thing.

Monica

[Barbara H.]

Ten years ago I had AC and T followed by radiation. My oncologist said that T would be easier than AC. I found it harder. Radiation was also difficult for me because I burned during the last two weeks and my skin completely peeled off. I had to wear some special pads because I my exterior skin was gone. It was painful. Nevertheless I worked through all of it, and didn't experience the fatigue that others have reported from radiation. It seemed doable because I knew treatment would end.

Stage 4 is now harder because there is no end in sight.

Everyone experiences treatment differently. I am very nervous about having this surgical lung biopsy where I need to be in the hospital for three days. I am so upset about it that I still may argue against it.

People have to understand that we say things sometimes that we might have said differently at another time. Treatment can be an emotional roller coaster.

Best wishes,
Barbara H.

[kcherub]

Rhonda,

You are usually so good with words and your thoughts! I don't think you were rude, just maybe not understanding her in that moment...

Even after finishing chemo, I really thought I could not get through radiation. I hated it--worse than the chemo, but not more than the steroids. So, maybe she is just having a really hard time with it?

Knowing how caring you are, I can see that this is gonna bug you. Maybe talk to her tomorrow and tell her that you didn't mean to offend her, or to hurt her feelings. I do things like that all the time--second guess things I say and do.

It's an easy fix. :)

Take care,

[Mary Anne in TX]

Hey, Rhonda! Some time back I asked a question on a thread about something (don't even remember what) and Sandy answered me with what felt like a slap upside the head! I did the typical thing and got my feelings hurt for a couple of hours and then realized she was SO RIGHT! I was so grateful that she didn't mince words with me and told it like it was. Her information helped me make a decision and I have continued to be blessed by her response. It toughened me up a bit. And what about dealing with cancer doesn't require us to be tough. I've learned to appreciate the information I receive here and other places. Sometimes the "delivery system" is hard to hear, but always appreciated.
Talk to her. But keep being you, caring enough to confront.
You're terrific! ma

[RhondaH]

I'll apologize tomorrow.

Rhonda

[Mary Jo]

.....gives Rhonda a big hug because you are special.

It takes a big person to apologize.....even when you don't think you were wrong....but you know you hurt someone else. That's the sign of a special person.

Hugs,

Mary Jo

[Becky]

Or not...

I can be the devil to Marejo's angel. Who is she to complain after 7 rads. Really.... I burned to a crisp but it didn't happen until about the 4th week. And remember, I went through rads with my mom (who was diagnosed 4 months after me and had her lumpectomy during the first taxol). What the firetruck:) Rads are nothing without chemo too (which does cause more rads symptoms) PLUS the fact that - don't you want to be cured? You HAVE to have the rads with lumpectomy. There is NO choice for it to have the same outcome as mastectomy. I would just tell her if she isn't going to finish rads, is she going to get a mastectomy then? Otherwise her chance of local recurrence is quite high. Oh well, her problem not yours. I guess its sometimes hard to tolerate stupidity and I am on "staycation" this week too so I am having more liberty than usual.

[Gerri]

Rhonda,

I don't think you owe her an apology. Like Mary Anne said, this could be the wake up call she needed to get her through treatment. Maybe she went back to her desk, thought about what you said, and it made her realize that if you could go through a year and a half of treatment, she could certainly hang in there and finish out her rads. Next time you see her just smile and ask how she is doing. She'll get over it. If not, then she has a whole different set of issues to deal with.

[StephN]

Hi Rhonda -
Don't fret. I am with Gerri in that I don't see that a REAL apology is necessary. What is there to apologize for?

Seems to me she is upset with HERSELF for getting cancer. We all feel like rebelling at some point, don't we?

Your coworker is obviously not up to speed as to why she is getting a certain treatment pattern. Maybe she is one of those who"don't want to know - just kill it." I have a friend like that and we never talk details. Becky gave those details that this other gal may not be aware of or has forgotten with her selective memory.

[Margerie]

Rhonda- you weren't rude. Cancer is the rude one- budding in and screwing everything up for everyone!

[harrie]

Rhonda, I don't think you were rude at all and I am sure what you said was done with the best of intentions.
Her reaction had more to do with the issues she is struggling with inside herself. Has nothing to do with you. Try not to take it personally.

When I was going thru chemo, I had an aquaintence at the gym who had told me before that her mother was dealing with cancer. One day i asked her how her mother was doing in regards to her cancer and she gave me this wierd glare and basically told me it was none of my business and (I forgot what her exact words were) and I should NOT have asked her. She said her mother does not like to disclose to her any information. She made me feel like an intruder.
Didn't bother me a whole lot. I just never realized she was so wierd.

[naturaleigh]

Becky,
Rhoda never said if this girl had a lumpectomy or a mastectomy. I had a mastectomy and STILL had to go through radiation. I had bad feelings about it from the get-go and I wish more than anything I did not go through with it. I questioned it every step of the way and all my radiologist and my onc could tell me is this is what is in the literature. I was hoping to have an Ace in the hole in case I did have a recurrance. Since radiation still does not guarantee that you will not have a recurrance, I felt that if I did recur, then I would do radiation to help blast those cell to oblivion. My feelings were I had the mastectomy did the year and a half of chemo/herception. I felt great, still had lots of energy and was well on the road to recovery. The rads drained my energy from me, my lungs still hurt to the day and I my energy has yet to return.
I still think she needs to listen to her inner self and do what she feels is right for her. From what my onc always says "no ones cancer is the same" so why do they treat everyone the same?

Just my two cents about Radiation

[Becky]

Stage 1 = no nodes so if she had a masectomy, she would not have rads. Rads with masectomy tend to be with large tumor and no nodes or 3+ nodes with a smaller tumor.

Stage 1 is always no nodes and smaller (less than 2cm) tumor so she had lumpectomy.

[Hopeful]

This is just a tad of info for the "why" have rads after lumpectomy. A few months ago, I was reviewing a slide set from a presentation to doctors discussing rads for bc. One of the slides discussed what is a "clean margin." The answer surprised me - "clean margin" in bc surgery does NOT mean a specific boundary (i.e., 2 mm) or that no cancer is left, but rather ANY cancer left in the breast is at a level where rads will finish it off in the surgeon's opinion. I did not understand that when I had surgery, and my surgeon's practice is very good, very precise, and does not remove more of the breast than they absolutely have to. Now I know why they freaked out when I said I didn't want to do rads! (I did do them BTW, after finding a facility that could see to it that my heart was kept out of the field). Anyway, I thought I would share this in case others get asked "Why?" It is the best answer I can think of.

Hopeful

[BonnieR]

I don't think that the information you were trying to impart is the issue. I just think your coworker is feeling overwhelmed and fearful and all the other emotions that we experience during this journey. And she may have been overly sensitive to your remarks because she was feeling so vulnerable. We all respond differently when in those situations...sometimes with anger.

[PinkGirl]

Hi Rhonda
If I'm ever in doubt regarding whether an apology is warranted,
I offer one. It is not diffucult to say you are sorry.

I also ask myself this question: "Do you want this settled, or do
you want to be right?" Often, wanting to be right doesn't get you
to a very good place in peoples' hearts.

I agree with Bonnie. I don't think this had anything to do with your
message. We never know the whole story about someone else's
life.

All of us here know that you have a big, kind heart. I think you
zigged when you should have zagged!

[rebecca0623]

Thanks for the information on the "clear margins" - I went in for a lumpectomy and node dissection last week and surgeon ended up taking a quadrant of the breast for a 1cm tumor. I was surprised, although I would have said take the whole breast if it got all the cancer, but it has me thinking about margins. I get the path results Monday but I will be sure to get clarity on the margin issue.

[Ruth]

Oh Rhonda ~
To apologize or not? Hmm....
I am thinking that maybe just talking to her (without apology) about the big C and giving her understanding is what she needs. I have friends (male and female) that had radiation only and it was kind of isolating for them. Remember how you went in, undressed, got rads, and left in all of maybe 10 minutes? While chemo you had the chance to talk, really talk to people. In radiation, you aren't sitting next to people in chairs sharing the same experience. Her words of not being able to go on was not maybe the radiation part but the whole crappy cancer part. Which lots of us understand. I can't say how many times during treatment I was a little jealous of someone who had radiation only or a small tumor, got to keep breast, no positive nodes etc... and how crazy is that? Cancer is cancer and to anyone's world it suxs! With a capital S.
You have always written such inspiring sweet posts and I can't imagine you being anything other than a caring, compassionate person. I don't think an apology is called for but maybe a hug.
Ruth

[Bill]

Hi Rhonda! Your comments sounded rude to me, but justifiably rude. Here you are, having gone through 9 kinds of hell, and a long-term member of this site, and seeing what alot of people here have endured, and then this co-worker of yours has apparently decided that radiation is too much trouble to go through on a daily basis, and might "quit". Oh boy, alot of topics are running around loose in this thread. Rhonda, an apology may be the key to opening the door to a closer relationship with her. In my opinion, she needs to suck it up and finish the radiation. Some people have a very difficult time with rads., but from your post, it seems like her attitude was that it was too much of a pain in the butt to go everyday. And as far as the clean margins issue goes, with our technology as it is right now, after a mastectomy, you irradiate the immediate area, because no test can detect the presence of stray cancer cells. Cancer plays for keeps. I'm so very sorry that some of you have had a rough time with radiation, but you have to hit it with everything you've got. Rhonda, like MA said, you may actually have helped that woman. Please keep us posted.

[Jean]

Bill,
yes, your correct - rad treatment mops up the area.
Once a lumpectomy is done, well that is a ticket to radiation treatment.

I understand and RESPECT the fear that some have regarding radiation treatment....but I consider this...
I was dx. with breast cancer now....there can be a stray tiny cell lurking ...so I look at it this way...would I rather worry about the stray cell getting out...or killing it and maybe have an issue down the road with radiation?
First of all, the methods have changed from the radiation of years past...so I am taking my chances with the radiation getting those little #%@&@#$# ....

Rhonda,
as you already know some women want details and some don't...didn't her doctor explain the treatment?
Maybe he did and she didn't listen or got angry as she did with you? Continue to be nice to her as she is
in battle, but NO I don't think you need to feel bad
that you did something wrong. Your heart is open and you were sharing .....

Hugs,
Jean

[Ginagce]

Rhonda, when I was first diagnosed, stage I, lumpectomies (bi-lateral) and rads to one breast, my husband had just come home after 7 months total away.
Four months in hospital and 3 months in rehab.

He had been diagnosed with CNS NHL only days before he went into a coma. After watching him fight for his life for 7 months, my "little surgery" and 7 weeks of rads did seem like a cakewalk and I had trouble even feeling sorry for myself!

Since that time (1997), he has since died, I have had a recurrence,(2004/Stage III, ER+, Her2+, had bi-lateral mastectomies, reconstruction, ACT chemotherapy, 2 years of herceptin and am currently taking an AI which unfortunately, for me means major bone and joint pain.

So, having seen both ends of the spectrum (the only way I know how to describe it) I will say a couple things.

I understand your response to that woman. I don't think you should feel bad about it...

It's always disturbing to hear anyone who chooses to stop treatment of what some, in comparison to their own experience, may perceive as an early small cancer that can be knocked out with rads.

But I don't think that at the end of the day, any of us "measure" each other's pain and truly believe that one of us hurts more than the other.

I also know, from the time I spent here while on Herceptin, that you are a very supportive person and will have other opportunities to be there for her.

So don't beat yourself up about it...okay?

Ginagce

P.S. And I tend to agree with the man on here....if you were talking to a man, that would have been absolutely the appropriate thing to say! (gotta luv em!)