short term memory loss

[Sherryg683]

Chemo has totally messed with my memory and it is frustrating me terribly. I can understand that while on the chemo my brain was fuzzy, that's where the term "chemo brain" comes in. But this is 2 years after, I am on Herceptin so I don't know if that comes into play. I have terrible problems with retaining things. I will read a book and come back to it the next night and have to re -read the last chapter because I forgot what it was about. Appointments, things that I have said..forget it. My husband got annoyed at me the other night because I asked him 4 times if he had let the dogs out. Then last night was the topper. I wear this mouth piece to bed (because I grind my teeth) and was searching frantically for it for about 5 minutes, I then looked down and saw that I had it in my hand along with my reading glasses...duhhh. I told my Oncologist that I feel like a bumbling idiot sometimes. He said that short term memory loss is common in chemo patients. My brother has been through the mill with chemo and his memory is just fine. Anyone else walking around forgetting if they tied their shoes or not? ...sherryg683

[SoCalGal]

Hi Sherry-
I think that this chemo takes its toll. Plus as we age estrogen drops off and with it our memory. For me when I am doing things like you mentioned it's because I'm on overload and preoccupied with too much at once. When I'm worried or sleep deprived or anxious I tend to not be really present and will forget things or repeat myself.

I do write down all meds since I can NEVER remember if I just took something or just MEANT to take it:)

I think stress plays a big part and herceptin is not nothing - I always have hot flashes the day or two following which means hormones "moving" which means neurotransmitters not transmitting properly.

AND all my girlfriends around my (your) age also are getting slightly batty:)

Hope I made you feel better not worse!
FLori

[Karen W]

I, too think that chemo, Herceptin and anti hormonal drugs all mess with our brains. I have really bad short term memory loss and have trouble with words.

Karen

[Sherryg683]

Well that sounds like me too, menopause, sleep deprived, always trying to do 3 things at once. I use to be able to handle it..maybe I'm just getting old..lol..sherryg683

[AlaskaAngel]

Sherry,

I am sorry you are being plagued with chronic loss of memory this far out due to treatment. It hits me when I least expect it, when I think I'm getting better, and that is especially disappointing. Last week I made out 4 bank deposit slips at the customer counter, and it wasn't until I was at the grocery store that I realized I had left the checkbook itself on the counter at the bank. Luckily, it was a pretty dead hour for customers there and it was on the counter where I'd left it, with no checks missing. I have absolutely no reliable method for avoiding those kinds of blips on my screen, and I'm 6+ years out on NO Herceptin.

It reminds me of when I was considering treatment and asked my oncologist what the effect of the drugs was on the brain. He said that in 20 years he had only had about 5 patients who were totally incapacitated by it. (TRUE story. So... what about all the rest of us?)

With complete sympathy,

AlaskaAngel

[sarah]

agreed, the chemo, the AIs and in my case, age have all created fuzzy brain! Now if I walk into a room and forget why I'm there, I just stand there and look around and in a few seconds, I remember why I'm there!!!! it's very annoying.
sarah

[PinkGirl]

Hi Sherry
I think, as Flori said, it is a combination of everything we've
faced during this "adventure". For me, the memory issues started
during chemo but it continues on now. I had to remind
myself that Herceptin still had side effects even though it was
a cake-walk compared to the chemo drugs. Now I am short on
estrogen which also affects memory. And, I often have a
cluttered mind - sometimes I forget things, sometimes I back
my truck into the garage door - I chalk it up to the whole
package - chemo, herceptin, arimidex, menopause and stress.
There's probably something else but I forget!

[MJo]

Chemo. The gift that keeps on giving. I have experienced the embarrassment of stopping mid-sentence because I've forgotten what I just said. I read an article said that chemobrain improves after three years. One more year to go for me.

[tricia keegan]

Sherry I have this too most of the time and while it was funny to start with now it's just plain frustrating! The things I find most difficult are remembering certain words in the middle of a conversation and even mis- spelling simple words which I never did before. I'm just hoping in time it will get better.

[sassy]

Sherry,

I'm three years out and do think I'm somewhat better. I have the most trouble with people's names. I'll be talking about something and get to someone's name and its just not there. I just say--"I'll tell you the name in a minute"--and go on with my conversation--then when the name comes to me I say "the name is Bob"--or whoever. Its probably confusing for other people, but my friends and family have gotten used to it.

I don't remember other things as well as before chemo, but I do think I'm getting better. Or maybe I just don't remember forgetting!

[AlaskaAngel]

This is courtesy of a post a short while back by Lani:

Interesting article about effects on brain:

http://www.health.wvu.edu/newsreleases/news-detail.asp?ID=840 (http://www.health.wvu.edu/newsreleases/news-detail.asp?ID=840)

(From West Virginia University Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center)

WVU Researchers Find Possible Cause of “chemo brain” in breast cancer patients

[Jeanette]

Thank goodness i am not the only one. though I am a lot older than most of you.{68} I too stop mid sentence and feel like a total idiot at times. My husband is used to it, and just stands and waits til I remember what i was going to say. It can be quite funny at time s too though. I am almost three years out so hopefully it will get better. I do have a biopsy tomorrow though, so the wait will kill me til I find out the results. Hugs and Blessings to you all, Jeanette

[Hopeful]

I did not have chemo but did have Herceptin and am on an AI. I have had problems that pre-date treatment, but which have noticeably worsened since, with remembering nouns and proper nouns. I attribute it to lack of estrogen. When it happens during conversation, I end up doing convoluted descriptions of people or things until someone supplies the correct word for me. I usually preface the descriptions with, "I'm sorry, I don't have my words today," and just go on. My SO is reasonably good with providing the names of people and places; for the others, I just have to muddle along. I find the terms often come to me a little later - stress (even the stress of looking silly in conversation) makes the sought after term fly even farther away from my consciousness. When I relax, my mind works much more normally (well, normally for ME, anyway ;)).

Hopeful

[juanita]

Sometimes the memory is fine, and other times it's the pits. But i mainly don't forget appointments and stuff anymore. It's words like airplane, or flower. Talk about feeling stupid.

[Barbara2]

I still have memory problems, too. It is certainly better than the year or two right after chemo, which was really bad. Sometimes I wasn't certain how to get around my small community of 2,700 people and I've lived here all my life. I had to really try to focus on whatever the task at hand was, to be sure I was doing it correctly.

As time went on I got better, but I still have what I like to call "deleted files." Some things are just absolutely gone. I have trouble with words, names, numbers, and the order of letters within a word. I often write the incorrect sequence of letters within the written word (mostly when typing). It's been 5 years since I finished chemo.

I write absolutely everything down that is important to remember. I start each day with a list. As far as taking meds, I use the daily pill boxes,(I like the weekly version) so I can see what I have taken, otherwise I most certainly would be confused on that, too.

Still counting my blessings, though....

[SusanV]

Nearly 2 years out, and I still feel that my memory is not as sharp as it once was. Although frustrating, I have learned to give myself time and patience..and things usually will come to me. I have learned to allow myself time to "chew things over" at work...no more knee-jerk response times for me. Especially if the response requires my brain to remember something from the past.

I believe that our minds have gone through quite an ordeal through this journey, and has been filled day and night at times with our Dx. I often use the analogy that my brain is like a 10" dinner plate. It can only hold so much "Stuff", and eventually things fall off the plate.

Just want you to know that you are not alone !!

[Bill]

SherryG, you've got alot going on right now, and like your sisters have said, chemo. plays a big part in short-term memory loss, as does stress/lack of sleep. Also, from something I read years ago, your short-term memory can hold approximately 7-11 "items" at once, and if you try to store a new "item" in your short-term memory, something will be pushed out, in other words,"forgotten", and here's the kicker- it's not the thing that's been in your short-term memory the longest, but any one of those 7-11 items at random, no rhyme or reason, to make room for the new short-term memory. As I read your post last night, I had myself cracking up, because I went into the kitchen to give my cat insulin (needs it twice a day) and thought, "oh, man, I can't remember if I already did this tonight", as we get older, it's hard, for me at least, to remember if that was something I did yesterday, or an hour ago, so, I know what (like Chrisy says) all of youse guys are dealing with as far as the memory thing goes. Yes, I often walk into the next room to do something, and stop, befuddled and have to go back to the original room and retrace my steps. I think we just all think too much, and don't sleep enough. Hey, let's just all think less and sleep more! Love all of youse guys, Bill

[Sherryg683]

Thanks all, it's always good to know you're not alone. I remember when I was doing chem, I could barely get the words out sometime...I just felt so stupid. I remember once going out to lunch with my friends and just sitting at the table listening to them talk. It sounded like they were all talking at once, just this awful bunch of buzzing noice and I thought, damn..I must be going crazy here. At least it's not that bad anymore..I still fumble a lot with my sentences and names...forget it. I find it most embarassing when I meet someone I don't know, you want to make a good impression and don't want to go into detail about why you seem so dumb. ..sherryg683

[Barbara2]

Sherry said, "I find it most embarassing when I meet someone I don't know, you want to make a good impression and don't want to go into detail about why you seem so dumb. "

I agree. I feel like I need to wear a shirt or badge or a symbol of some kind that indicates that my brain is not powered up at the moment! My closest friends don't even realize this.

[R.B.]

There are lots of reasons to ensure an adequate supply of long chain Omega 3s DHA and EPA. [Some may need long chain Omega 6 too but much is not known and for most it is the Omega 3s that are likely to be the primary issue].

There are a lot of trials linking DHA to quality of brain function.

Does chemo or herceptin block production of DHA, change the fats balance or lead to higher usage. I have tried to find trials on a number of occasions and have not seen anything yet.

Seehttp://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24410&highlight=greek+diet

For various information on Omega 3 and 6.

Please discuss dietary change with your doctor.





http://dhaomega3.org/index.php?category=overview&title=DHA-for-Brain-Visual-Functioning


Abstracts

The depletion of DHA levels to sub-optimal concentrations in the brain due to insufficient dietary intakes of omega-3 fatty acids has been found to result in cognitive deficits (impaired learning ability). DHA omega-3 deficiency is associated with both structural and functional abnormalities in the visual systems and the resulting visual deficits have been related in part to a decreased efficiency of key visual signaling pathways due to the deprivation of DHA. A sufficient supply and accumulation of DHA appears necessary for optimal neurotransmission to support cognitive function in the brain and optimal visual transduction and functioning.


http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00900.html

ABSTRACT


Memory and Learning

Spanish researchers explored the relationship of EPA and DHA, two omega-3 fatty acids to a special type of brain wave called p300, which is linked to memory and learning (1996). According to the researchers, the faster the rate of transmission of this brain wave, the more efficiently the brain is functioning. The rate declines with age, explain the researchers, and is slower in people with dementia. The scientists then used electrodes to determine the p300 rate of 26 healthy adults. Immediately after being tested, subjects were given supplements of either EPA or DHA. Two hours later, their brainwaves were measured, and researchers observed that the p300 rate was significantly faster in the group given the DHA supplements. These results appear to support the positive impact of DHA on cognitive function in adults.