bone mets? worried

[fullofbeans]

Few months ago I felt some pain in the bone going from the wrist to my big thumb (yep small bone) whenever I move my thumb. I know that the wrist is not a common place. At first I thought not much of it.

However, the pain is still there few months later what worried me from what I read is that the pain is at its worse in the morning after bed rest. After moving my thumb the pain becomes less sometimes I can hear a click; and unless I stretch my thumb out I hardly can feel it. Lately the symptoms in the morning have become worse which I gather is not a good sign.

I do not know what to think... Being in the UK if I want anything done about it I will have to insist, so please do not answer to ask my onco (because unfortunatly that is not the way things work here). Could I just ask for a hand Xray would that be any good at detecting something?

For those who had bone mets how long was it before the symptoms became worse? could it be made better by moving the affected area around?, how long until the pain became really noticeable and constant?

I am getting very worried to lose my proud NED status..

[AlaskaAngel]

FOB,

It is even harder for you to let any symptom go by because you originally were early stage and were surprised so unhappily so quickly with mets. However, even so, it is as you say, unlikely. Lab tests such as alk-phos could be helpful, to tell whether there are changes in the bone. (I do not know if your alk-phos would be above normal range though just because of the treatment you had to your liver.) I will risk being obvious and ask you to think back and try to remember if you had any kind of recent trauma to that wrist or thumb, including jamming the thumb in or backward, or overuse, especially with computers, or handwriting or crocheting or knitting, etc. Morning stiffness is more indicative of arthritis, and there are some lab blood tests to check to see if you might be arthritic.

P.S. Try giving the wrist and thumb complete rest for several days....

Fondly,

A.A.

[tousled1]

You could start off by asking for an XRay. It could just be some slight arthritis.

[Mgarr]

I'm with Kate & A.A. that is the location my arthritis began try not to worry.

Mary

[Sueinuk]

Hi, I don't have mets but can understand your worry about this. I too had a similar thing with my thumb and wrist. It was really painful for a couple of weeks. I bandaged it with some stretchy bandage and rested it and it did help. It doesn't bother me now but I still get the occasional twinge from it.

Like you, I am in the UK and would suggest you visit your GP and tell him about your concerns. He may refer you to casualty (ER for those in the States) for an X Ray. (Unfortunately here in the UK you cannot just go and get one. You have to be referred by your doctor.)

love
Sue

[dhealey]

It could be carpel tunnel syndrome, arthirtis or are you taking arimidex, aromasin or femera? These all can cause joint pain, somethimes severe in some women. In any case I would ask for an xray.

[Lani]

The chemo itself usually makes one menopausal (that's what they think whatever benefit there may be in her2-ER+ breast cancer patients treated with chemo stems from...) and estrogen has antiinflammatory effects on joints (so lack of it is associated with joint imflammation)

That said, arthritis at the "base of thumb joint" is one of the most common joint complaints of those women over 40 years old. Your lack of estrogen (from the chemo despite your age) may have manifested itself in that joint "feeling like a rusty door hinge with less lubrication" Spurs on that joint often "strum" against ligaments, like strumming a guitar string, hence the noise. Just presumptions/creative scenarios on my part...may be entirely wrong.

I have previously posted that I have read that over 90-95% of bone mets in breast cancer happen above the ankles or above the wrist level making mets in the hands and feet exceedingly rare.

Since there is an extrremely common trouble which would explain your symptoms and an exceedingly rare explanation which would prove to be mets, I know which one I would choose!

Hope this helps!

[fullofbeans]

Thank you everyone I did not know that arthritis was worse in the morning too.. and yes thanks to let me know that this location is common for arthritis. Yes lani I think that the hard treatments combined with the lack of oestrogen can perhaps bring on early arthritis. So that could be the tickets.

It has now been about 3 months that I can feel it so I hope that since it has not developped more maybe maybe I am lucky to have arthritis.

If arthritis can be told from a Xray I can ask for one (I need to know what to ask for here on this side of the pond).

Funny desease indeed so far I have been happy to have a stomach bug, temperature when have headaches (from an infection) and now so glad that it is arthritis! (I hope)

[fullofbeans]

Just read the description of symptoms for arthritis and I think this could be it really, never even considered arthritis..then again never considered cancer a couple of years back..

[Missyw]

Hi FOB,

It's Missy from Seattle. I was sorry to read you are worried, but I wanted to reply with what i hope is some comfort. I too had wrist pain for an extended period. I later had shoulder and rib pain as well. My bone scans came back clean so apparently it was determined to be hormone (or non hormone) related (i.e the Arimidex). Once i knew it wasn't a met, I learned to work with it. It did disappear after about 6 weeks. Are you getting routine bone scans? At what periods of time? If you can request a bone scan it will help to put your mind at ease.

I think of you often and wish you all the best.
Missy

[fullofbeans]

Hey Missy,

Good to hear from you!

Well the responses above calmed me down no end, I now think that it is a beginning of arthritis due to the chemo which was quite hard on my joint. I remember having to strech my hand every morning b4 and after chemo + having been chemopaused for more than a year now. So I am not so worried now and my TMs are normal.

I hope that your family is doing well and I was glad to see that you were in such good form last time we met at the UW, the vaccine is gonna work 100% only false fear from now on!! remember to invite me for your daughter's wedding:) in 10 15 years from now.

[kk1]

Hi Beans;

It also may be related to the vaccine you received revving up you immune system. athritis is an autoimmune disease and it would not surprise me at all to have sore joints as a side effect of the vaccine.

btw- I also had very sore morning hands for about a year or so after finishing the nasty chemo. In the mornings I would have to do hand stretching exercises to be able to even hold my tooth brush. It slowly faded away and is completely gone now in my hands....just my feet now feel a bit stiff in the am.

all is well on this side of the pond
kk1

[fullofbeans]

Firstly news: Got my wrist Xrayed after logical discussion with my registrar (current one is fine again, it changes every 6 months here) so that was good.

Anyhow its so great to be able to relate to all of you besides being on the other side of the pond. So just for that and discovering a great country the vaccine was worth it!!

Yes in my experience Taxotere was hard on my joints. By the end my joints would be locked up after say having watched TV for a sometime just a little while after. I suppose it is collateral damages, almost expected from chemo. .
I have googled and saw some other random post about 'post chemo arthritis', developping in thumb first. A bit scarry I must say when you first read about it...which is what I have just been doing infact.

What do they mean by the basal joint of the thumb (is that close to the nail or close to the wrist) not sure waht side they are talking about?

I remember that you have recently been diagnosed with Osteopenia just learned that apparently we can loose as much as 30% of our bone mass within the first three years.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4aXFkfqOoY). Perhaps I should get a bone scan too?

I have to say that both issues just kind of hit me since I am chemopaused since my first FEC, and all is still so new and I suppose I have been waiting to see whether it would be permanent.

I really do not think that the vaccine is contributing at all. In fact some forms of arthritis only are autoimmune. http://www.uhn.ca/donate/aarc/site/pages/research/aadisorders.htm). and it is only affecting my right thumb which may be more to do with beaten up joint with chemo.

Thanks also Dhealy just checked about carpel tunnel syndrome and yes this could definitely something to considere. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/carpal_tunnel.htm (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/carpal_tunnel.htm(http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm#82213049) I have to say that the more I read it the more appropriate it sounds to what I have. In all honesty I am honestly hoping that it is the problem here, because outcomes are good.

I am going to France next week maybe I'l do something there (cheaper to see specialists and no queues) so I can know what it is as it could take weeks here just for dx.. (it took 7 weeks from the time I saw my GP about breast lump until I got seen for a biopsy..)

Will let you know, thanks all for your help again, it really helped!!!