JUST FOR FUN...do any of you HER-2 positive gals...

[Gina]

have a simian line on one or both of your palms? I am gathering data on this as the lines on the hands, including the fingerprints are effected by the womb environment of the fetus.

So, if any of you out there have one on one or both hands, I would love to hear from you on this thread.

Take care one and all,
Gina

[RhondaH]

who don't know what a simian line is, here is a picture of it.

http://www.handanalysis.com/simian.html

Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[RhondaH]

WELCOME back Gina!!! I've missed ya:) No sweetie, I do not have one. Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[Susan]

No Simian line here..........

[Becky]

None for me either

[Mary Jo]

Nope!!


Mary Jo

[PatS]

None for me either

Pat

[kimber]

Nope.

Happy to hear from you though! - kim

[suzan w]

No simian line for me!

[Montana]

None here.................

[Marlys]

Gina, I'm with Rhonda in welcoming you back. We miss you!!! And no, my hand does not have a simian line.
Love & hugs,
Marlys

[Jeanette]

None here either, Jeanette

[kareneg]

None here.

[hutchibk]

none for me either

[Karen Weixel]

I honestly don't know... however, from the pictures on the web it appears I don't.

Karen

[Donna]

Hi Gina,

I have only seen one other person with the simian line - it was at the Smithsonian, the handprint of a female astronaut.

What moves you to ask about this?

Donna

[MJo]

No. I have two separate lines.

[Yorkiegirl]

Nope I don't have one.

[caya]

No, I don't have one.

[StephN]

Put me in the NO column. Normal hand lines.

Curious about the "womb environment" you mention you are studying. Does this have a possible breast cancer predictor connection??

Let us know more when you get a minute.

[tricia keegan]

Nope me neither but thanks Rhonda as I had'nt a clue what it meant!!

[jo50]

I don't have the simian line either, but what interesting thoughts and ideas come up here.... Jo.

[mslinda]

No for me.

[harrie]

don't have one

[Mary Anne in TX]

Not me either!

[fauxgypsy]

nope.
Leslie

[Barbara H.]

No for me
Barbara

[Patricia]

I don't have a simian line but my husband has one on each palm.

[Chelee]

Nope.

Chelee

[juanita]

None for me either!

[sassy]

Well, I guess I'm one of the 4%. Right hand....

I had no idea what it was either, thanks Rhonda.

Good to "see" you Gina. Let me know if you are coming this way anytime.
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[Bev]

Hi there, No simian lines. Simian as in ape? Seem to be typing in bold today. Site has changed. Love the slide show. BB

[Donna]

Hi Gina,

I didn't answer it correctly the first time - I have the simian lines in both hands.

Donna

P.S. never have liked the "simian" reference!

[sarah]

No, I don't have it.

[Gina]

First, thank the more than 30 of you who kindly indulged me with excellent responses to my research on the simian line...for those of the old-timers who know me...smile...you were quite correct to suspect that it may (or may not) have something to do with her-2 mediated disease.

I became fascinated with the concept while reading a non-fiction book on the evolution of the human hand and the various comparisons to the hands of other primates and other non-handed animals. Most of the other primates most closely related to humans have simian lines. Most modern humans, do not.

Humans of Asian descent, including "gypsies" (who migrated out of the India/Tibet/China region give or take about 11,000 years ago would be considered of Asian Decent as would many modern day Persians, various Eastern Europeans, especially Romanians and Hungarians and Poles, and several other populations decended from Asia or who were heavily invaded by the the Huns --have higher incidences of simian lines than the general population. Modern Asians today have the highest concentration of simian lines, about 13 % of the population versus around 3 to 4 % for caucasions. Most modern Asians, today, though, it is believed have LOWER incidences of breast cancer than other populations, but it also may be that we just don't have access to the real numbers, say in China or North Korea, or remote parts of India, or war-torn Afghanistan.

However, there are some studies that indicate folks from some of these ancient Asia-migrated areas have breast cancer rates higher than other populations. Many of these folks have higher incidences of her-2 mediated breast cancer than other folks, especially descendents from eastern Europe.

The line can apparently be genetically passed on, as a trait, like blue eyes or red hair, and is usually passed on as a TRUE simian line as it is in my family: My mother has one on her left hand, I have one on my left hand and my youngest sister has one on her left hand. To have 3 people in one room all possessing simian lines at any given time is exceedingly rare. Now that you know what a Simian line is, you will start looking for them and understand what I mean. One of the reasons I didn't immediately say what a simian line was is that most likely if you didn't know what it is...you most likely would not have one...tease...tease...smile...because if you have it, it is sufficiently rare that most likely over your life, someone would have pointed it out to you as happened to me when my Korean friend noted it, with surprise--as I was not obviously Asian, one day years ago.

Alternatively, especially in cases of "partial" simian lines or near true simian lines, hormone levels in the womb may be responsible, most particularly, high levels of testosterone. This is the same phenomenon, varying hormonal environment of the womb, that causes the fingerprints of even IDENTICAL twins to be slightly different as the final "imprinting" --if you will --of the lines occurs during gestation and are not set in stone as ordinary genetic traits generally are (again, things like Blue eyes, Green eyes, or straight versus curly hair, or type A Rh-negative blood --if found in one identical twin, will equally be found in the other, not so of finger and palm prints).

In the non-fiction book on the subject, folks born with simian lines of any kind, have been correlated by physicians to have more health-related difficulties and more UNUSUAL kinds of health-related difficulties their whole lives, although most tend to live out normal or even LONGER than normal life spans. In the case of my family. my mother (71), myself (43), and my youngest sister (39), all of whom possess strong, clean simian lines that slice through our left palms, have dealt with serious and life-threatening illnesses our whole lives, while ironically, my middle sister (41), who has no such line, is the tower of health in our family.

I remember reading that Tony Blair (who has a simian line on both hands) struggled off and on during his time as Prime Minister with various health issues...hmmmmm...makes one really want to look at Vice President Cheney's hands, no?? smile.

Anyway, other parts of my research had shown a moderate connection with testosterone hitting a female fetus during early parts of gestation and later correlations to ER- PR- her-2 3+ mediated disease.... That made me want to find easy ways to see if any hormonal NEGATIVE gals who were her-2 very positive could have possibly been exposed to testosterone during gestation and the simian line was one tell-tale factor, as well as being left-handed. Some gals on the site who were her-2 positive had also noticed that someone in their extended family had had autism, others schizophrenia, and this can sometimes be connected.

Some of you will remember my work on RH negative blood groups and all of this ties into the same research as the blood type would also define a genetic "type casting" if you will of someone who may be slightly more genetically prone to her-2 mediated disease--although, in my theory, of course, it takes two things, pre-existing genetic vulnerability and surendipitous contact with the offending organism--still unproven, of course--this is only hypothesis still.

I guess my big question now would be to Donna and Sassy. Are you both hormonal negative that is ER- and PR- as I am or do you have some hormonal element to your illness? By any chance do you have RH negative blood types...I am RH negative type A.

And Patricia, I would also be interested to know your hormonal signature and something about the general health of your husband with the two simian lines, like Tony Blairs. Also, is your husband RH negative?

If any one out there, after reading this posting, has her-2 mediated disease and a family member or someone they know with a Simian line, I would be delighted to have you post something to this thread. Every comment is useful. I love the feedback and yes, to many of you who posted just to say, "hi", I too have really missed you all during the past year, a hearty HELLO to each and every one!!!

Godspeed,
Gina

[DonnaD]

Sorry no for me also.

[doh2pa]

None for me!

[StillHere]

Nada for Simian line

[lexigirl]

Nope, me either.

Lexi

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

I have no simian line, but -- I see (w/help from Rhonda's http) that I have a heart line and a head line. What's the other line between the two? And my left hand has a vertical line going through all three lines.

I'm sitting here reading all your posts, fascinated and staring at my palms... I guess I never really looked before. Any answers to my questions re addl lines????????? ANDI :)

Gee Gina, you are a most intriguing personality! Nice to make your acquaintance...

[Esther]

No simian line here either.....thanks for the link, as I didn't know what a simian line was.

[Soccermom]

me neither..

[sassy]

Hey Gina!

I appear to be a very "positive" person--pun intended.

I am ER and PR postive, blood type B+. No Rh negative factor.

There is no Asian link in my lineage. I am not aware of others in my family with Simian line, but I will check as I can. Neither of my children have one.

I have not dealt with any other life threatening illnesses, but have become known to all my docs as a weird case. I react to lots of meds strangely, had a weird staph infection no one could figure out, etc.



Keep us thinking!
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[Patricia]

Hi Gina,

To your question: 'And Patricia, I would also be interested to know your hormonal signature and something about the general health of your husband with the two simian lines, like Tony Blairs. Also, is your husband RH negative?'

I was mildly ER+/PR+. My husband has high cholesterol with a family history of it as well as heart disease. He has also has had a recurring ulcer and has cataracs. Other that those things he is very healthy, active and looks and acts much younger than his age (he is 53). He does not know if he is RH neg. As far as ancestry, he is originally from Nicaragua with his mothers side originating from Germany many many generations ago. No asian descent in the family that we know of.

Good luck with your research. It is an interesting topic indeed...keep us posted.

Hugs,
Patricia

[Roz]

Yes, I have a simian line on my left hand. (I am left handed!!)

[Donna]

Hi Gina,

in answer to your question:

I guess my big question now would be to Donna and Sassy. Are you both hormonal negative that is ER- and PR- as I am or do you have some hormonal element to your illness? By any chance do you have RH negative blood types...I am RH negative type A.

I am ER + 80%, PR+ 10% - I am pretty sure I am blood type O and not RH negative. My lineage comes mostly from Germany with some English, Scot and maybe American Indian thrown in. I was told there was "gypsy" blood in the German side as relatives were known to read palms and do psychic sorts of things. I inherited a crystal ball from one of them.

This is a fascinating thread - I had always thought that with the head and heart line as one my decision process is always a combination of the two - emotion as much as logic. But probably everyone feels that way about themselves. I love that Tony Blair has the lines, I think he's brilliant - except for that part where he fell for Bush's rhetoric.

Best to You - and let me know if there are more results and information on this to be had!

Donna

[Sherryg683]

No here, what does it mean if you do have one..just wondering?..sherry

[sassy]

Gina and Donna,

I was interested to see that Donna had Scot and American Indian ancestry, as I too have Scot and a strong element of American Indian. Could there be a connection?
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[Kavy]

No Simian line here.

KarlaV.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

In the spirit of this thread, FUN, and sharing interesting ideas -- I think I was an American Indian Medicine Woman in a previous life. A Shaman.

A psychic who draws as she converses with you was surprised to see she'd drawn a teepee, plain as day. She'd never done that before.

She was a bc Survivor. When she saw my daughter she commented that she sensed my daughter was concerned about her mother. That she shouldn't worry because she sees me far into the future. That she should ask me to come and see her and she wouldn't charge. I did go. And she wouldn't accept any $. She saw the Spirit of my great Aunt Molly all around me, protecting me. I walked in the door and she asked WHO'S MOLLY? Now where'd she come up with that? It was a very interesting experience. And that was about 2000.

I was lost getting to the psychic. Which is common when you're geographically challenged as I am. Finally, going round and round in circles and getting to be late, I stopped resisting and struggling and calmly led my Guides tell me which way to go. In minutes I was there...
ANDI :)

[Adriana Mangus]

Not me. Just regular lines....:-)

[Gina]

Hi, Roz...thanks for joining this thread. Are there many Aussies with a Simian line??? Would make sense as you guys are certainly more EASTERN, but I suspect it was passed via middle Europe, to the UK and then down under, but who knows???

Patricia...you, by any chance, are not the same gal who had 3 positive blooded children and then a negative RH 4th child by chance are you and then got the her-2?? If so, and if this current husband is not the father of the first three, chances are he is RH negative...but I am probably confusing you with someone else...sometimes it is hard for me to remember posts that we did back in 2005...sighhh...yes, I am getting old...LOL :-)

Also for Patricia, do either of your husband's parents carry one or two lines and do any of your children with this husband carry either of the lines...in general, though, the line is usually passed down from the mother. Once you know to start looking for the simian line...it can be real fun when you find one...trust me...they are rarer than you think...smile.

That is why I would be interested to hear more from Roz and Donna and Sassy. As women, they could have passed the line on to their children, but most likely only to daughters...if they had sons, it might not have passed unless it was dominate...I don't know how it works yet, but I am studying it...

I also did not have SERIOUS health problems until her-2 when I was 33--although I have VERY weird side-effects to every drug, including herceptin...when I first started taking it, I broke out ALL over my face, upper shoulders and neck with horrible ACNE...my onc SWORE it had nothing to do with herceptin, but since I was always MISS NATURAL GIRL...I knew the ONLY different thing I was taking was herceptin...sure enough, one blessed Onc nurse looked it up...in the literature, it is a known side effect...less than 2 percent get it but it was already noted... Sassy, I also have difficulty with infections -- bacterial...not viral. Viruses seem to bouce off of me like soccer balls off my son's head...smile.

I also have Native american and some Scottish but a LOT of German and Hungarian...remember...Germany, especially what we used to call EASTERN Germany, is practically central Europe and my whole point was this genetic link traces back to central europe in recent centuraries but may have been SEEDED 1,000's of years ago from the far east...that was my only point about the Asian stuff.

Also, Sassy, you are the closes person in the group geographically located near me...any of your relatives named Hawley; Taylor; Reedy; Ide; or Bird/Byrd??? These are recent family names on my mom's and dad's side. We are all from the Pulaski/Bluefield Virginia and Bluefield, WV area, although I persoanally was born in Welch, WV...fyi...smile.

Take care all,

Gina

[rinaina]

according to the pictures, i think i do have a simian line on one hand, my right hand.

[sassy]

Gina,

I am a transplant, originally from East Tennesse (not that far away). My maiden name was Hall and there are a lot of Hall's in this area. One of my co-workers was a Reedy; her mother a Hall. All stem from three bothers who came to this country from Scotland. She has done a lot of research on the Reedy line and I would be happy to check names with her if you would like to PM or e-mail me.

I just finished reading the book "The Glass Castle" by Jeannette Walls. Interesting read. Her father's family was from Welch--coal miners.
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[Mgarr]

Gina,

I am not clear I have 2 straight lines. From the site Rhonda recommended it indicates I could have a high or low simian line. For the record I was diagnoses ER-PR- her2+++ and I am RH-.

Mary

[StephN]

Hi -
I posted earlier that I do NOT have a simian line - but my HUBBY does. On his right hand.
He was looking at me a little askance, as he never thought much of it.

He has a strong Russian component in his genes, and they have a saying "scratch a Russian and you will find a little Tatar blood." Those Khans and hordes went all over in their conquests.

[Gina]

Thanks, Mary, for sharing your line...smile...trust me, you are in good company and special thanks to Steph for doing investigative research and finding her hubby, like Patricia's has the straight line. Steph, if you or your hubby have kids, do they have the line?? I really don't know what it all means, but you have to admit it is fun to think about and takes our mind off less fun things... Sorry to read on the board tonight so many rough going side effects with some of the treatments...TCH, etc.

Special note to Sassy: Yes, my own family research confirms the 3 Reedy brothers came from Scotland and I was so happy thinking I had solved part of my geneology problem...until I learned that my maternal grandfather, who carried the Reedy name, did so via adoption. He was actually a Spencer by birth, whose father probably came from England and not Scotland as we once thought. Also, I went to Graham High school with the famous Eddie and Edith Hall twins...any relation to you??? We really do need to get together the next time I head down to Bluefield.

Anyhow, I was going over some of my other research and came across an article that does indicate left - handedness is more common in breast cancer patients (all types, not broken out by her-2) and I am pretty sure back in 2005 some of us discussed this and I had mentioned that I was left-handed from early childhood, but forced to switch in kindergarten although, if push comes to shove, I can still write passably well with left hand and tend to eat as the French do, with the left hand engaged.

So to Steph, I just also wanted to say that I think there could be some slight correlation between hormores in the womb environment and breast cancer. Also, recently, I saw an article that mentioned that even when all other genetic/social/economic factors are considered...there still seems to be a closer link to a woman's or a man's breast cancer via her or his mother's line and not the fathers...hmmmm.

Also, love the point about the Scotish/European/Native American connections...fascinating...

Love comments from any of you...keep them coming...
Gina

[RhondaH]

how interesting, I never gave much thought to it and while I knew I am part Clucas, I just found out that our family ACTUALLY came from the parish of Douglas on the Isle of Man (so I'm part Manx)...neato. Take care and BIG huggs.

Rhonda

[Kimberly Lewis]

just a boring old palm here -

[sassy]

But a talented potter's palm Kim!
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[Arjaymaine@yahoo.com]

I have very pronounced simian lines on both palms, and an Rh- where can I get more information?