Alcohol - is any amount safe?

[Jean]

Would anyone like to put their 2 cents in and estimate what would be a safe amount of wine? Once glass a day with dinner? Once a week? Once a month?Interesting thoughts...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=68992&nfid=al
Jean

[Grace]

First, my reply is based strictly on my own experience and has no scientific basis in fact whatsoever. In 2001 my husband was told he had diabetes and stopped drinking. I found it boring drinking alone (only drank wine) and also stopped. So I went five years without touching any type of alchohol when I was diagnosed in 2006 with breast cancer. The day I was diagnosed I stopped at wine store and picked up a bottle of very nice champagne. I decided if I were going to go it would be in style. I'm still drinking wine but very very little as the herceptin (or chemo), or something, has ruined its taste. I hope this changes when I finish herceptin.

[Grace]

One other comment on alcohol study. First line reads:

Alcohol (EtOH) consumption - even moderate - is a well-established risk factor for breast cancer in women. A recent study showed that 60 percent of female breast cancers worldwide were attributable to alcohol consumption. Nevertheless, the mechanisms of alcohol-induced breast cancer are poorly understood.

Question: How did this study arrive at this conclusion. Did they ask all women with breast cancer if they drank alcohol and find that 60% did and 40% didn't. Of course, we'd have to know what percentage also ate apples, or cottage cheese, or pretzels, or anything else.

Or did they interview all women all over the world and find that the vast majority of women who didn't drink didn't get breast cancer and the majority of women who did drink did get breast cancer. And what's the breakdown: number of drinks per day, types of alcohol consumed: hard, beer or wine?

If it's true that approximately 8% of women get breast cancer in a lifetime and if my observations from living in Spain and Italy and travelling extensively in France are correct, that a large number of women in those countries drink moderately (generally wine), then shouldn't the numbers in those countries far exceed 8%.

What percentage of women get breast cancer in countries where the drinking of alcohol is forbidden? That is, where are the statistics to support the opening hypothesis?

My view, drink your glass of wine with your meal and stay heart healthy, and happy!

[Lolly]

This is an interesting topic, as I know many of us enjoy our wine! It's also my understanding that the possible link has been observed in hormone positive cancer, so that adds another wrinkle.

My oncologist has only advised my to drink in moderation, especially while on chemo, as alcohol may impair immune function.

<3 Lolly

[Hopeful]

To add to the discussion, lets not forget the threads on resveratrol from the Articles of Interest Forum:

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19795&referrerid=1173

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27398&referrerid=1173


Also, here are two abstracts I found when researching this topic many months ago:

Role of alcohol and genetic polymorphisms of CYP2E1 and ALDH2 in breast cancer development.


Choi JY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Choi+JY%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Abel J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Abel+J%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Neuhaus T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Neuhaus+T%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Ko Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ko+Y%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Harth V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Harth+V%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Hamajima N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Hamajima+N%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Tajima K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Tajima+K%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Yoo KY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Yoo+KY%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Park SK (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Park+SK%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Noh DY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Noh+DY%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Han W (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Han+W%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Choe KJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Choe+KJ%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Ahn SH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ahn+SH%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kim SU (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kim+SU%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Hirvonen A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Hirvonen+A%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kang D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kang+D%22%5BAuthor%5D).
Department of Preventive Medicine, General Surgery and Cancer Research Institute, Seoul National University College of Medicine, 27 Yongon-Dong, Chongno-Gu, Seoul 110-799, Korea.

OBJECTIVE: We examined the potential association between alcohol consumption and genetic polymorphisms in the alcohol metabolizing enzymes, CYP2E1 and ALDH2, in individual susceptibility to breast cancer in a Korean study population. METHODS: Three hundred and forty-six histologically confirmed breast cancer patients and 377 controls with no present or previous history of cancer were recruited from several teaching hospitals in Seoul during 1995-2001. The CYP2E1 RsaI polymorphism was determined by a real time PCR method, and the ALDH2 Glu487 Lys polymorphism was determined by a PCR method with confronting two-pair primers (PCR-CTPP). RESULTS: The drinking women had a 1.4-fold risk for breast cancer (95% CI = 0.99-2.11) compared to never drinkers after adjustment for age and family history of breast cancer. No statistically significant overall differences were seen in the genotype frequencies between breast cancer cases and controls. However, the "ever"-drinking women with the CYP2E1 c2 allele containing genotypes had a 1.9-fold risk (95% CI = 0.99-3.83) for developing breast cancer compared to non-drinkers with the CYP2E1 c1/c1 genotype (P for interaction = 0.043). CONCLUSION: This study therefore suggests that the CYP2E1 c2 allele may influence the individual susceptibility to breast cancer in alcohol-consuming women.

PMID: 12563175 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Alcohol consumption, glutathione S-transferase M1 and T1 genetic polymorphisms and breast cancer risk.


Park SK (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Park+SK%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Yoo KY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Yoo+KY%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Lee SJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Lee+SJ%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kim SU (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kim+SU%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Ahn SH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ahn+SH%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Noh DY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Noh+DY%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Choe KJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Choe+KJ%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Strickland PT (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Strickland+PT%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Hirvonen A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Hirvonen+A%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kang D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kang+D%22%5BAuthor%5D).
Department of Preventive Medicine, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Institute of Environmental Medicine, SNUMRC, Korea.

To evaluate the potential association between GSTM1 and GSTT1 genotypes and development of breast cancer, a hospital based case-control study was conducted in a South Korean study population consisting of 189 histologically confirmed incident breast cancer cases and their 189 age-matched control subjects with no present or previous history of cancer. A multiplex polymerase chain reaction method was used for the genotyping analyses and statistical evaluations were performed by unconditional logistic regression model. The GSTM1 null genotype was significantly associated with breast cancer risk in premenopausal women [odds ratio (OR) = 2.0, 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1-3.7], but not in the postmenopausal women (OR = 0.9, 95% CI = 0.5-1.9), nor in all women grouped together (OR = 1.3, 95% CI = 0.8-1.1). The GSTT1 null genotype posed a similar risk of breast cancer with an OR of 1.6 (95% CI = 1.0-2.5) for the total breast cancer group, OR of 1.7 (95% CI = 0.9-3.2) for pre-menopausal women, and OR of 1.3 (95% CI = 0.6-2.8) for post-menopausal women. The breast cancer risk associated with concurrent lack of both GSTM1 and GSTT1 genes was 2.2 (95% CI = 1.1-4.5), and the risk increased as the number of null genotype increased (P for trend = 0.03). When the data were stratified by the known risk factors of breast cancer, a significant interaction was observed between the GSTM1 genotypes and alcohol consumption (P for interaction = 0.03). An especially remarkable risk of breast cancer was observed for alcohol-consuming premenopausal women lacking both the GSTM1 and GSTT1 genes (OR = 5.3, 95% CI = 1.0-27.8) compared to those with both of the genes. Our findings thus suggest a novel gene-environment interaction which plays an important role in the individual susceptibility to breast cancer. p6

PMID: 10862521 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

It is my opinion that some sort of genetics beyond just the damaging effects of alcohol are involved here. I have long wondered, as Grace voiced above, why the bc rate would not be higher in Europe, where young people consume wine with family meals beginning at a young age, or lower in Muslim countries, where alcohol is forbidden, if this alone was the key to so much bc. Wine is my hobby, and though I know I fit the definition of "high" consumption (i.e., over 5 glasses a week) my doctors are aware of this and none have advised me to change this habit. I have stopped having any wine on days when I am not attending a wine related function, which has resulted in a 5 pound weight loss - those calories add up!

Hopeful

[saleboat]

The way I see it...I was clean-living, athletic and a vegetarian for 20 years... and still was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 34, with no family history of the disease. I probably should drink less, but I never 'should' have gotten this blasted disease in the first place (none of us should!!!).

I probably have 5-6 drinks a week, sometimes more. I think about stopping, but that wouldn't be much fun, now would it?

Jen :)

[Mary Jo]

Just throwing in my 2 cents worth. Life is short - no matter what!!!! It's important for each of us (whether a breast cancer survivor or not) to take care of our bodies. We should eat well and exercise. BUT we should treat ourselves as well - a cookie (or two or three) - a piece of pie - some chocolate - AND an occasional drink. We gotta live while we're here too. No matter what we do - no matter how "good" we are - we are all gonna die someday. So, live it up BUT do it in moderation.


Live this life God gave you to the fullest ~ smile a lot and enjoy the ride. It's the only one we get.

Mary Jo

[Becky]

Here, here Mary Jo. I agree completely.

[Christine MH-UK]

Lest we get the reputation for being a bunch of booze hounds!

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_48851.html

Take care,

Christine

[Jeanette]

I have my wine every evening. This is something I enjoy and feel I deserve. If I have to put up with all the tests and jabs, we earned this little luxery, Cheers my dears,Jeanette

[Hopeful]

Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 963:239-246 (2002)
© 2002 New York Academy of Sciences (http://www.annalsnyas.org/misc/terms.shtml)




Anti-Aromatase Chemicals in Red Wine

</NOBR><NOBR>E. T. ENG<SUP>a</SUP></NOBR>, <NOBR>D. WILLIAMS<SUP>a</SUP></NOBR>, <NOBR>U. MANDAVA<SUP>b</SUP></NOBR>, <NOBR>N. KIRMA<SUP>b</SUP></NOBR>, <NOBR>R. R. TEKMAL<SUP>b</SUP></NOBR> AND <NOBR>S. CHEN<SUP>a</SUP></NOBR>


<SUP>a</SUP>Division of Immunology, Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, Duarte, California 91010, USA
<SUP>b</SUP>Department of Gynecology & Obstetrics, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia 30322-4710, USA


Address for correspondence: Dr. S. Chen, Division of Immunology, Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope, Duarte, CA 91010. Voice: 626-359-8111, ext. 62601; fax: 626-301-8186.<SUP> </SUP>
schen@coh.org (schen@coh.org)<SCRIPT type=text/javascript><!-- var u = "schen", d = "coh.org"; document.getElementById("em0").innerHTML = '<a href="mailto:' + u + '@' + d + '">' + u + '@' + d + '<\/a>'//--></SCRIPT> <SUP></SUP>
Ann. N.Y. Acad. Sci. 963: 239-246 (2002).<SUP> </SUP>



<!-- ABS -->Estrogen synthesized in situ plays a more important role in<SUP> </SUP>breast cancer cell proliferation than does circulating estrogen.<SUP> </SUP>Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androgen to estrogen and<SUP> </SUP>is expressed at a higher level in breast cancer tissue than<SUP> </SUP>in surrounding noncancer tissue. A promising route of chemoprevention<SUP> </SUP>against breast cancer may be through the suppression of in situ<SUP> </SUP>estrogen formation using aromatase inhibitors. A diet high in<SUP> </SUP>fruits and vegetables may reduce the incidence of breast cancer,<SUP> </SUP>because they contain phytochemicals that can act as aromatase<SUP> </SUP>inhibitors. In our previous studies, we found that grapes and<SUP> </SUP>wine contain potent phytochemicals that can inhibit aromatase.<SUP> </SUP>We show that red wine was more effective than white wine in<SUP> </SUP>suppressing aromatase activity. Interestingly, our results from<SUP> </SUP>white wine studies suggest a weak inductive effect of alcohol<SUP> </SUP>on aromatase activity. On the other hand, the potent effect<SUP> </SUP>of anti-aromatase chemicals in red wine overcomes the weak inductive<SUP> </SUP>effect of alcohol in wine. Several purification procedures were<SUP> </SUP>performed on whole red wine to separate active aromatase inhibitors<SUP> </SUP>from non-active compounds. These techniques included liquid-liquid<SUP> </SUP>extraction, silica gel chromatography, various solid phase extraction<SUP> </SUP>(SPE) columns, and high performance liquid chromatography. An<SUP> </SUP>active Pinot Noir red wine SPE C18 column fraction (20% acetonitrile:water)<SUP> </SUP>was more effective than complete Pinot Noir wine in suppressing<SUP> </SUP>aromatase assay. This red wine extract was further analyzed<SUP> </SUP>in a transgenic mouse model in which aromatase was over-expressed<SUP> </SUP>in mammary tissue. Our gavaged red wine extract completely abrogated<SUP> </SUP>aromatase-induced hyperplasia and other neoplastic changes in<SUP> </SUP>mammary tissue. These results suggest that red wine or red wine<SUP> </SUP>extract may be a chemopreventive diet supplement for postmenopausal<SUP> </SUP>women who have a high risk of breast cancer. Further research<SUP> </SUP>is underway to purify and characterize the active compounds<SUP> </SUP>in red wine that are responsible for the inhibition of aromatase.<SUP> </SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
<SUP>Hopeful</SUP>

[VaMoonRise]

I asked my oncologist about the occasional drink just before I was to go on vacation as I knew that I would be offered a glass of wine and would be tempted to have one. Her opinion was that having an occasional drink in moderation was just fine and that we shouldn't deprive our selves of anything that we enjoy that isn't truly harmful to us. She talked about the benefits of red wine, especially for heart health. She also said that most of us are getting a small dosage of alcohol already because most chemotherapthies are alcohol based. This was something I hadn't known before and was surprised to hear. Has anyone else heard or read this any where?

I personally rarely if ever have an alcoholic drink but you can be sure that if I do feel tempted to have a glass of wine that I will. I agree with Mary Jo completely. We gotta live while we're here too. No matter what we do - no matter how "good" we are - we are all gonna die someday. So, live it up BUT do it in moderation.

Cheers Ladies!

Nicola

[dede10]

I agree! I like my glass of wine, and if I choose to have one, I will, and if not, I won't.