Consumption of sweet foods and bc risk in Italy

[RhondaH]

Knowing that my ratio of sweets to fruits and vegetables PRIOR to dx was 9:1, I STILL think I played a big part in my dx.

http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/17/2/341

Rhonda

[Becky]

Further evidence of the insulin factor, something I continue to believe is part of all of this. I was never a huge sweet eater. I did eat my veggies and some fruit but I was overweight and did very little exercise. That changed immediately and I have lost 40 lbs and exercise alot. I believe in this for me. Weight and lack of exercise also greatly impact the insulin factor.


I maintain a low glycemic diet (which is why I never eat fruit alone). Good article.

Becky

[RhondaH]

but, Gina told me NOT to eat fruit w/ other foods (or am I not understanding what you mean by, you don't eat fruit alone). Take care and God bless you.

Rhonda

[Becky]

Fruit is sugar (with good nutritional value) but still sugar. If you eat it with a meal or as your dessert, you are consuming it with fiber (cereals, brown rice etc) from your meal, proteins and fats (what little you may be eatting). It all mixes up in the stomach at the same time and reduces the glycemic index (how much sugar and how much insulin is put out to use up that sugar) of the fruit. Its like red food coloring. It is very red. Add a drop to water and its pink. Add some milk and its baby girl pink. Proteins and fats and high fiber food reduces the over all "sugaryness" of anything sweet.


So, if you are watching your glycemic index and the way your body outputs insulin (at a nice slow and steady rate), you need to not eat sugary foods alone and fruit is included in that.

I eat fruit with my cereal in the morning or with plain yogurt or as a dessert after a meal. (I eat these things like a diabetic would need to eat it).

I follow alot of Gina's ideas but not this one. Although Gina says eat fruit alone like the Europeans (but they eat it with cheese which has the fat and protein to lower the glycemic index of the whole mess in the gut).

Becky

[Gina]

an article about the importance of maintaining a clean colon when you have cancer. One reason that this may be especially important for her-2 folks is because the oleic acid is actually absorbed in the intestine. Any how, the concept about raising blood sugar was not mentioned--although I think maintaing good insulin levels is VERY important...and like Becky, I tend to eat a diet with a naturally low glycemic index...staying away from white pasta's, sugary treats, etc.

What was mentioned in this article, however, was the problem of the fruit causing the food you had just eaten with it to start fermenting immediately. This is a normal chemical reaction. The article was concerned that the gases and toxic fumes given off in the gut by this type of natural fermentation is very harmful to the sensitive linings of the intestines--the same linings that must absorb the oleic acid and many other essential minerals and nutrients. The concern was that if you were consuming essential nutrients with the fruit fermentation going on, you might not be absorbing as much as necessary and that some of the nutrients that needed to be absorbed would just pass on out of the bowel. Therefore, if in the final analysis, oleic acid turns out to be an important nutrient for her-2 folks...my guess is that you would not want the bulk of it going into the toilet...hee hee hee...only teasing...smile, but seriously....another perspective to consider.

Besides, I have suffered from intestinal problems the whole time that I have had cancer...many of these problems have been caused, no doubt, by various treatments as much as anything else--even the Herceptin is terribly hard on my stomach.... Anyway, when I consume fruit with other foods...I get gas and abdominal cramping and swelling. When I try to keep them separate, I don't seem to have these problems...also, keep in mind, that as far as my own personal appetite goes, I am NOT big on fruit...never was, so I don't eat all that much of it to really raise my glucose levels--not that this is a necessarily good thing and perhaps one reason I was more prone to cancer in the first place......in fact, I detest fruit so much, that since I have been dx, I have had to force myself to include it in my diet and that by doing a regimented 4:30pm time slot for an apple or red pear (which both have a lot of fibre in them) just works for me.

Also, grabbing the purple grape juice blended with unsweetened cranberry or Pom, first thing in the morning gives me a boost as I do not drink coffee or caffenated beverages in the morning, and I think the good stuff in the deep purple juices outweighs the bit of glucose high, you get..just coming off the whole night fast--it is especially helpful in maintaining adequate RBC levels if on chemo--and gives good energy. However, I have very good blood sugar levels and have never been considered diabetic, but of course, for folks who may tend towards diabetes, they may want to be very careful about eating the fruit alone. Thanks for calling this insulin factor to my attention. I will add the disclaimer when I suggest the fruit alone in the future. It is just like so many complex issues that we discuss; for her-2 folks, it seems nothing is EVER as simple as the first take would imply....smile...

Oh, yes...my mother is a big fan of a few ounces of 100 percent real fruit juice (no sugar added) FIRST thing in the morning...uh...she will be 70 this April and is HEALTHIER than a 30- year old....if only my liver enzymes looked as young...smile...smile...smile...

Take care everybody,
Gina

[Becky]

Gina


Strange because I was never fond of fruit either, not even juice. I do put the blueberries on my cereal (usually with 1/4 of a banana). I try a couple of times a week to have an orange with lunch (and I use alot of lemon so I get the vitamin C naturally). I will eat it if it is already cut up and do eat more of it than I used to. I guess we Hungarians like the paprika and peppers too much. I too, always wondered if not eating very much fruit contributed but I dont think so because I always ate my veggies and salads.

Becky

[Lisa]

To put it in the words of my Cancer Nutrionist, "It's better to eat a muffin than a Snicker's Bar." Works for me!

Love and light,

Lisa

[Lisa]

Starting tomorrow I'm into week 3 of Xeloda (3000mg/day)for 2 weeks, then 1 week off. I'll skip the part about insurance not understanding that I must have it on that schedule and not allowing a refill without a fight today. And I'll skip the part about my generic morphine not being availble today at my pharmacist's. And I'll skip the part where three radiation oncologists told me this past week that 1) I have no fracture in my left rib where there's pain / #2 told me I have an acute/subacute fracture of my left anterior 9th rib/#3 told me I have a "healing" fracture. All while I know from my PT/CT scan that there are DEFINITELY lesions on my spine that do have me concerned.
But, from the PA today:
......"Is it (rib) feeling better? yes
.....'Are you taking the Dexadron we prescribed? not really
......"Did you fall? no
'''''''''"Have you had a coughing fit? no
......."Did you hit something? Other than the bottom of an upswing in mood, no.

My tumor markers have continued to increase during these first 2 weeks of Xeloda: 1/19 CEA 48.6 & CA 27/29 183
1/26 CEA 37 & CA 164
12/08 CEA 23.4 & CA 124
So I'll skip all that and just say that I could do a "pain of hemmoroids" commercial with little acting skills.

Well, got that off my chest.

Love and light,

Lisa

[Lolly]

Lisa, ever hear the phrase "been down so long it looks like up to me"? Sounds like you had that kind of day. Hoping things DO start looking up for you. Thinking good thoughts for you.

<3 Lolly

[Shell]

I'll second the wish for good thoughts for you today - hang in there. I'm on xeloda, and left my dose at home one day. I called a different branch of my regular pharmancy, and before I was even finished explaining it, he said to come on down and he'd give me the dose I needed - now that was helpful!


Shell

[julierene]

I guess soda pop is a big "NO NO"? Even though I know my BC was cause from a gene that we finally found, I wonder if trying to help with diet will make much of a difference.

My mother and I were in the same shoes. She tried the vegetarian way, with low sugar - and it didn't help her one bit. She progressed from just bone mets, to everywhere else in 4 months.

I was hoping for more conversation on this topic.

I have to wonder if the cancer will turn whatever it finds available in the body into the sugar it needs. I think there is a mechanism that it basically sends signals to the body saying it needs sugar, and the body will convert whatever it has to give the body that sugar. I've often wondered why my cancer friends, on the last few months of their lives, continued to lose weight even when they were eating or being IV'd enough calories not to lose weight. A probable answer after much study, was that the cancer is tricking the body into giving it the sugar it needs thus converting any fat or muscle available - regardless of what is being consumed whether it be foods with sugar or not.

I was so troubled when I saw people who ate almost strictly veggies all day, fall into the recurrance category.

[Unregistered]

Processed food could also increase omega six intake which could also be a factor. It is a shame more precise trials are not created.

Gina your observations on digestion are interesting.

RB

[Maryanne]

I was told by my onc "a simple rule of thumb" would be to eat like a diabetic should. NO WHITE ANYTHING, as well as winter fruits, any tropicals are too high in sugar. Caffine will also raise your blood sugar levels and you want to keep them low and steady. Sugar also causes inflamation, with this in mind a no suagr diet might be considered a natural Cox2 inhibitor.

[StephN]

Good way to put it, Maryanne - and good topic.

My husband is a diabetic and I have been eating mostly as he does for about 20 years - plus my diet was not too bad before that!
I always ate a lot of fresh foods, what ever it was, and very little processed. My hubby is French and it was a long battle to get him used to more healthy bread than the "French styrofoam" he wanted, otherwise the French way of eating is definitely more healthy than typical American.

For me, I think diet was not the cause of my cancer, unless it was toxins in the foods as I did not eat organic until 4 years ago.

I DO recall, however, that in the weeks prior to my diagnosis I was craving more sweets. I wanted to drink those SOBE drinks that do have a lot of sugar, or make spritzers with ginger ale. And I craved those chocolate covered graham crackers. Things I always liked on occasion but not to the point that I wanted to go to the store just to get those items!
Guess it was the cancer ramping up as it was on the march through my lymph nodes.

AS for fruit, I have always lived in a region with plentiful fresh fruit and ate my share but not too much.

[Lolly]

Here's an article I found on the problem some advanced cancer patients face trying to maintain adequate body weight:

Cancer cachexia

http://www.molecular-cancer.com/content/2/1/36

[julierene]

Since I know mine was genetic with my mother and I getting it at 28, I have such a hard time thinking that sugar would have made any difference.


With one of the posts, someone mentioned that they craved sugar before their diagnosis, which seems logical to me because if you don't consume the sugar, your body will convert something it has to fix the lack of sugar caused by the tumor cells eating it all.

I do think diet and exercise play some role, along with enviornment... but to go so far as to say you can prevent getting cancer from eating right - or to say you can stop the growth of cancer from your diet - - - I would definetly disagree.

I do think you should take care of yourself and eat healthy. You will feel better about yourself and your body will get the nutrients it needs.

It's no secret that family history is a HUGE part of your risk. It's not a hard stretch to think that women can get a genetic marker, even if their parents don't have it. They call it a spontaneous mutation. At some point, our family got the mutated gene... Genetic mistakes happen all the time. It's part of our survival, natural selection, and success as a species. People with better genetics just live longer. I think genetics have a lot more to do with cancer than most people think. I constantly find myself asking, "Why did the man who smoked for 60+ years never get cancer and the young lady in her 20's who never smoked or exposed herself to 2nd-hand smoke get lung cancer?" Or "Why did the woman who baked herself in the sun for 70 years, never get skin cancer, and a child at the age of 3 gets melanoma?". People seem much more amienable to believe that children get cancer because of their genetics, but not adults... I don't understand.

No one ever looks at a person with Down's Syndrome and asks themselves why couldn't they have prevented that or eaten better to fix it? It was a mistake that happened during the combination of sperm and egg. There are billions, probably trillions, of potential mistakes that can happen during the process - many of which are invisible to us at this current point in our understanding of genetics.

We are just on the cusp of this area of research too. Maybe it's too hard for most to think that their genes caused the problem (coupled with the enviornment or their bodies).

For us as Stage 4, I think it's a dangerous idea to think that you can kill your cancer or slow it down by diet alone. My mother ate strictly veggies almost every meal when she was diagnosed. The cancer still came back. She even had a 2nd primary her 2nd time, which she was probably stage 2b. Her 3rd time, it was Stage 4. She lived only 4 months of the 6 they predicted on her 3rd time. She lived only 5 years total from her initial diagnosis. I don't think diet will change the nature of a Grade 3 cancer cell.

Lance Armstrong shared a whole BOX of apple fritters during his treatment - and he beat the odds when the odds were against him!!!

So while we may want to take control over our diets, I don't think we can really place false hope that it will prevent cancer or kill the cancer cells we have. I ate healthy, and I still got it - even at the same age she was. I have had a very good diet, and it still came back - even when it wasn't in my "odds" to.

I get frustrated from all the books I have read... Don't eat this, Don't eat that... If I followed everything the books were saying, I wouldn't be able to eat anything. Don't eat dairy, nuts, soy, wheat, sugar, bread, starches, fried foods, winter vegetables, tropical fruit, white food, non-organic foods... It never ends.

My situation seems so unfair. The statistics were 10 years only 11% had a recurrance. I have such a hard time trying to grasp it. If I blamed it on myself for eating a few things that I wasn't supposed to, I would be one myserable person. For those who take comfort in eating what they are supposed to, more power to them. I just don't think it's what I (and many of the younger women here) should be focusing on - especially not in my genetic case. For me, I have to pray for genetic research and genetic engineering.

Julie