More Good News on Omega-3 Oils

[Tom]

We have all spent a great deal of time sharing articles and information on this site, regarding the potential benefits of essential fatty acids in our battle against the beast. Stuffed as I was tonight, I could not help but take a late night peek at one of my favorite oncology news sites, www.oncolink.com (http://www.oncolink.com/) from the University of Penn. I was not disappointed, as this article regarding Omega-3 dietary supplements made me think that our hopes for these naturally occuring substances are well founded in scientific investigation. Apparently, these oils are helpful therapeutically as well as for purposes of prevention. Damn the mercury-bring on the salmon! Please enjoy the link below:

Dietary fish oil curbs breast cancer progression in animal study


http://www.oncolink.com/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=8&ss=23&Year=2005&Month=11&id=12555

[RhondaH]

This is why I eat fish (salmon, tuna or mackerel) 2 times a week. I have a couple of good fish recipes, but if anyone else has some good ones, please email them to me as I am always looking for good recipes.

Rhonda Hoffman

[Unregistered]

1. Fish oil in a bottle - not cod liver - its not the same - fish oil does not repeat either. As to the mecury issue you will proably find that the manifiacturers check. ( At a common sense level there are lots of other mecury sources including amalgum fillings, incineration etc, and its effects at the levels most people experience cannot begin to be compared with those of breast cancer)

2. IT IS ABOUT REDUCING YOUR OMEGA SIX INTAKE PRIMARILY from everything I have read.

3. The omega threes help moderate the impact of omega six, as well as having other pathways.

4. I have seen it suggested that ratios of intake down to 4 omega three to one omega six is benificial. One to one is commonly cited.

5. Hidden omega six is to be found in lots of prepared foods.

PLEASE see the posts on the Articles of Interest section and do a search on NCBI and enter "breast cancer omega three" - look at the summaries 144 trials from memory all in the same direction. I have not found any other set of trials that show the same concurrence.

6. If you want to know how omega 3 impacts on treatment do the same search and add the treatment to the search term. I have not seen a single trial where the addition of omega three was not benificial to the treatments I hace seen it trialed with.

7. My very personal view is that to see the benifits you have to cut down strongly on omega sixes from non original food sources processed foods particularly oils (corn soy etc.). Given that reports of side effects of fish oil are very limited (except blood thinning is an issue for some see Linus Pauling site) my personal suggestion would be to avoid all processed omega six sources including oils and take 3-4 grams of EPA/DHA a day, working on the basis that the body already has reserves of omega six for one to three monts and review, and the minimal intake reqirement of the body is low. Tests as to fat content of blood and tissue do exist and for those that can afford it would possibly be an interesting and helpful to monitor the impact of change of diet on fats.

8. Clearly good diet juicing greens etc are liklley to help but my personal observation would be if you do nothing else sort out your fat intake. What have you got to loose?

9. In my humble opion if there is one KEY factor in the increase of inflamatory type diseases and cancer over that base level in the last fifty years it is the huge increase in omega six intake combined with drops in omega three and short chain fats.

10. Check it out for youself. See the articles on the articles of interest section - find out about the eicosanoid pathway - look up omega three and breast cancer on the web - talk to your advisors.

WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOOSE (apart from weight and it will help there to)

RB

[Tom]

RB, I concur with your overall assessment of the Omega-3/6 problem. I have tried to increase my Mom's Omega-3 levels as much as possible. The sharp stick in the eye with all of this, is the recent news that gamma-linolenic acid is capable of down-regulating the HER2/neu overexpression at the nuclear level. It's hard to pass on any chance to effect the malignant cell on such a core basis. That's why I have chosen simply to try and provide a much better Omega-3 to 6 ratio. I had been relying heavily on flaxseed oil to provide Omega-9 (oleic acid), but it's other components of Omega-6 has led me to use olive oil alone to get the oleic acid. I'm sure someday somebody will figure this all out at the clinical level, but until then we must continue to read and experiment. I only hope I am doing the right things. We shall see. Thanks again for your extensive post, as I found it most informative. Take care.

Tom

[Unregistered]

Thanks for your comment, it is very much appreciated.

I have a huge amount of data on this, and have been looking at growth factors chemokine receptors, oncogenes, hormone receptors, growth factors etc which various trials have shown are regulated by omega three / six ratios.

Much of it I simply don't understand, but am begining to develop some some of hazy overview.

At the wider level the difference in cancer rates between the non westernised eastern populations and west is well documented as is the change in risk factor of people who move to the west.


My amateur theory -

Fats - increase availability and consumption of omega six is the obvious common factor, and once you start looking at the eicosanoid pathway etc it seems self evident that omega six is a very magor factor. It is fundamental to the body and at the heart of the bodies emergency repair systems. In evolutionary terms it has always been a scarce resource and the body may well have difficulty knowing what to do with it, so starting to strore it in between and within cells, and trying to come up with inovative mechanisms (cancer) on the evolutionary pathway. Women are more prone (And possibly the magor seat of evolutionary process) beacuse they have better access to stem cell pathways because of their reproductive systems, which is where factors like Endothelin fit in which is impacted by the 3/6 ratio. The breast is particulary prone as it is a priority fat site to feed babies, and respondee more quickly to fat intake change 3 months than the adipose tissue 3 years and has some reproductive traits and links.

In the document on the eicosanoid pathway on the articles of interest post there is a table that shows the contents of foods by fat type percentage from an article by Ben Best Fats you Need which is very useful.

Olive oils seems to work in different ways in common with most natural substances. As a fat its impact appears more or less neutral. There may be additional benifits from compunds it contains. Its impact I guess is primarily due to it being used as a replacement for omega six in traditional Mediterrean diets.

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is another must look up.

Flax seeds are reported as exellent and also provide soluble lignands, and are reported as being good for digestion/elimination.

Vegetable are undoubtaly a chemical arsenal, for example green things sources of folates - look up folate receptors and breast cancer - invest in a juicer mix it all grren veg carrots beetroot celery whatever include garlic chillies cumin etc and it tastes very surpisingly good - moor-ish.

Also look up PPAR alpha and gamma which are part of the fat utilisation process and need retinoids all a key part of the process.

The bits are all clearly out from the same jig saw. As a base point it must be worth trying and has wider health benifits. As always check it out for yourself, that way you are more likely to be convinced (for the doubters).

Good luck to your Mum, and stick with the quest.

RB

[Lani]

Sorry to throw another monkey-wrench into the pot for those looking for simple answers but I repost my list of breast cancer lines reminding everyone to look carefully at what breast cancer line studies are done on (not to say what happens in breast cancer lines in petri dishes or injected into mice really reflects what happens in real live people anyway!).

This study by Dr. Siddiqui was done on MDA 231 cells which come from a breast cancer which was NOT her2neu positive. AS has become abundantly clear to many participants on this website's forum and their loved ones, her2 neu breast cancers have entirely different genes and pathways activated and turned off than her2neu negative breast cancers, causing them to have very different behaviors and prognoses.

I reprint my post and then the abstract of Dr. Siddiqui's article:

THE POST:
Previous comments have been made on the need to be discriminating when reading articles on breast cancer studies performed in vitro(in petri dishes or test tubes) or in vivo (in rats or mice usually) utilizing breast cancer cell lines. One thread recently posted on this site had to do with whether flaxseed was good or bad for her2+ breast cancer and listed a study performed by someone in Nutritional science on a breast cancer cell line implanted in mice that turned out to be both estrogen negative AND her2 negative!


I found a nice list of breast cancer cell lines which specify whether or not they are her2+. It still does not tell which are ER+, but it will help one spot right away whether the study was done on her2+ or her2- breast cancer cells and thus help those of you with her2 positive breast cancer have an idea whether the study has any likelihood of providing information useful to your cases:

The naturally HER-2/neu-overexpressing cell lines: BT-474, SK-BR3, MDA-MB-361, and MDA-MB-453
the HER-2/neu-non-overexpressing cell lines: BT-20, MDA-MB-435, MCF-7, MDA-MB-231, ZR-75–1, and T-47D
Cell lines MCF-7/HER-2, MDA-MB-231/HER-2, ZR-75–1/HER-2 and T-47D/HER-2 were previously created by transfection with a retroviral expression vector containing a full-length human HER-2/neu complementary DNA (cDNA), resulting in stable HER-2/neu overexpression

The last group of cell lists which are listed have "her2" appended to their names-- meaning they were naturally her2negative, but they did a little genetic engineering and transfected them with her2.
It is absolutely unclear whether such transformed cell lines really have much to do with tumors that developed naturally and demonstrate her2neu amplification.

So when looking to see if some drug or vitamin or supplement has an effect on YOUR TYPE OF BREAST CANCER be sure the cell lines listed are
BT-474, SK-BR3, MDA-MB-361, or MDA-MB-453 (or MCF-7/HER-2, MDA-MB-231/HER-2, ZR-75–1/HER-2 and T-47D/HER-2 --but retain your skepticism if these latter cell lines were used)

NEEDLESS to say, what happens in the test tube, petri dish or in a rat fatpad injected with cells from another species may not have much to do with what happens in real life in humans

But hopefully this will help in interpreting which of these studies MIGHT
have something to offer and which have been performed in a set of cells so different than yours that the results are unlikely to be applicable to you


Hope this helps!
Lani

THE ABSTRACT:

1: Mini Rev Med Chem. 2004 Oct;4(8):859-71.
Related Articles, Links
*
Omega 3-fatty acids: health benefits and cellular mechanisms of action.

Siddiqui RA, Shaikh SR, Sech LA, Yount HR, Stillwell W, Zaloga GP.

Methodist Research Institute, Indianapolis, Indiana 46202, USA. rsiddiqu@clarian.org

Epidemiological evidence has established that ingestion of long-chain polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acids (omega-3 PUFAs), abundant in fish oils, have profound effects on many human disorders and diseases, including cardiovascular disease and cancer. Here we briefly review the dietary recommendations and the food sources that are naturally enriched by these fatty acids. There are also a number of products including eggs, bread, and cereals available to supplement omega-3 fatty acid dietary intake. Some of these supplements are proposed to aid different pathological conditions. While the beneficial effects of omega-3 fatty acids can no longer be doubted, their molecular mechanism of action remains elusive. Without question, the action of omega-3 fatty acids is complex and involves a number of integrated signaling pathways. This review focuses on one of the possible cellular mechanisms by which the omega-3 PUFAs, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), may function. Studies with cancer cells suggest that DHA induces cell cycle arrest and apoptosis by activating protein phosphatases, leading to dephosphorylation of retinoblastoma protein (pRB). Protein phosphatases are also involved with the protein Bcl2, which regulates the release of cytochrome c from mitochondria, and eventually, activation of the apoptotic enzyme caspase 3.

NOW THE GOOD NEWS--THERE HAVE BEEN GREAT ARTICLES ON COX2 AND HER2 DONE ON HER2NEU POSITIVE CELLS LINES, LOTS OF ARTICLES by Javier Menendez on her2neu breast cancer and oleic acid, gamma linoleic acid, XENICAL etc ,and LOTS OF ARTICLES ON HER2 POSITIVE CELL LINES POP UP ALL THE TIME DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY REPRESENT ONLY 20-25% OF BREAST CANCERS! So researchers are not ignoring us commensurate with our minority status. There has been much more research done and there is a much higher level of understanding of her2neu breast cancer than triple negative(her2 and ER and PR negative) breast cancer, the other minority population. Let's keep encouraging those researchers through interest expressed on this website.

[Unregistered]

Thank you that was heplful.

As I understand it your strong point is that care should be taken in looking at trials in too general manner as "little" things like cell lines can have significant implications in relevance, and not against the general principle fats may have an important part to play.

The mechanisms and pathways of fats and the consequences are by no means simple, they are "exquisitley" complex and much is still a mystery.

There are trials which suggest that fats may be pertinent to Her-2.


http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/11/1719

ABSTRACT

"This report shows, to the best of our knowledge for the first time, that dietary FAs previously characterized for either their breast cancer protective effect (ALA, EPA, DHA and OA) or its tumoricidal actions (GLA) significantly downregulate Her-2/neu ECD concentration and, consequently, the activation status of Her-2/neu in SK-Br3 and BT-474 human breast cancer cell lines, which contain Her-2/neu oncogene amplification. Remarkably, LA, a {omega}-6 FA with a strong tumorigenesis stimulating effect, significantly increased Her-2/neu ECD concentration. Our current results using human breast cancer cell lines are in concordance with our previous findings demonstrating that dietary lipids influence DMBA-induced experimental mammary tumorigenesis in female rats though modulation of Her-2/neu expression [11]. Although much remains to be learned about the ultimate molecular mechanisms of FAs in relation to Her-2/neu, the recent characterization of a molecular link between Her-2/neu and the proinflammatory prostaglandin biosynthesis catalyzed by the enzyme cyclooxigenase-2 (COX-2) suggest an original working model in which dietary FAs would regulate either the expression and/or the activation status of Her-2/neu oncogene via COX-2 [12–15]. Nonetheless, it is reasonable to suggest that some types of dietary FAs not only represent promising therapies for prevention and/or management of Her-2/neu-overexpressing breast carcinomas, but also may be even more beneficial when given in combination with novel therapies directed against Her-2/neu. We are currently investigating whether these findings will be helpful in the design of novel approaches to delay or prevent trastuzumab (HerceptinTM) resistance."

J. A. Menendez1,2,*, S. Ropero3, R. Lupu1,2 and R. Colomer4

[Rupali Bhagat]

Now I am confused what is good and bad for Her2 neu+ tumors...
Is flax seend oil good or bad?
Is Olive oil good or bad?
Is Vitamin E ok?
Pleae comment

[Unregistered]

It is not surprising you are confused. I think we all are to varying levels.

The role of nutrition in disease is a hotly debated topic, and is hugely complex many of the mechanisms are simply not understood. You can only look at the straws in the wind and decide which way it is blowing. I am clear and passionate on the subject of fats but can give you no certainties - if I could we would not be discussing this.

Fats are esential to the bodies function and central to it.

There is insufficient trial data to give the sort of certainties that are needed to give truly clear cut answers, particularly for individidual conditions.

The only people who will and can fund preventitive life style trials to the level required for a sea change in the short term is governement. The Australians have begun to look at the economics and social benifits of funding prevention. Drugs companies do not make large profits by telling people to eat better and so generally are not going to fund such research unless it may produce a drugs path, much as individuals may want to.

Please read the article on the articles of interest section of this site "The importance of omega three and six" and the links. Much of it is complex but once you have read it a cople of times you will get the drift.

There is a group of people who beleive omega six above the minimal levels the body requires is a percusor of all sort of conditions including some cancers. THIS IS THE KEY - TOO MUCH OMEGA SIX BAD.

On this omega three sources basis flax seed (ground) and oil (eg Udo's etc) is good. Fish oil is very good. Olive oil as a fat is neutral ( but has other benificial effects due other components). Omega six corn soy etc should only be taken in whole foods. Cut out oils which are high in omega six and watch out as processed food chips crisps burgers etc all mainly contain omega six oils (Cooked in or added). The omega six intake is further added to as apparently grain fed animal meats contain much higher levels of omega six than grass feed animals. Generally seek to maintain fat intakes at a low level acheivable level for for you. There is an extablished link between body fat and breast cancers

The key aim is to reduce your omega six intake to get a balance of about one omega six to one omega three.

SMALL amounts of short chain fats are also desireable, and reported to promote weight loss ( butter 1% of diet is adequate) or coconut meat, variety is the spice... etc.

At the end of the day you have to spend a little time looking at it yourself. I feel you will come to the same conclusions, and I promise you it will be thought provoking and time well spent. If you understand a little of the reasoning, and it is your decision you are much more likely to be motivated to stick with it, but I am afriad it is for you to look, and to understand a little if you are to be convinced and informed, and so motivated.

RB

[athena453]

Great thread.

I try to eat as much salmon, tuna, etc. as I can. I red meat (beef especially) as much as I can. I also use olive oil whenever possible, which is easy since I am of Italian descent. I eat ground flax and also take flax supplements daily. Like RB mentioned, what can it hurt? At the very least, this diet is likely to result in weight loss and improved cardoivascular health.

I am interested in opinions on the benefits of evening primrose on her2 patients, specifically those of us who are hormone receptor negative.

[Gina]

YES, Tom started an excellent thread on this VERY crucial issue. I think the person who emphasized the importance of checking the cell lines or type of breast cancer being researched is also vital as I really think Her-2 mediated cancers will eventually be completely categorized as an illness apart.

That said, I will just add that for my part, as an ER-PR-her-2+++ pre-menapausal gal who has had this type of her-2 over-expressing breast cancer since 1997 and who despite many bouts of mets, leads a very busy life and who enjoys an extremely high QOL, I have taken 500mg of evening primrose oil every single day for at least 7 years, EVERY SINGLE DAY...no joke..maybe missed a few here and there for procedures or bloodwork, but by and large, I have taken it every single day, along with switching from butter, corn oil, soy oil, and margerines to pure canola margerine from the onset, and cooking with only olive or canola oil from the onset and avoiding excess Vitamin E, and taking pure Olive leaf--rich in oleic acid-- daily for at least 6 years...again, every single day, missing very few for procedures or what have you, who also has taken 25,000IU Vitamin A with 1,000IU Vitamin D in Fish oil capsules filled with safflower oil daily, I have found such a regimen to be highly effective--and I don't even LIVE in a test tube...wink...smile..Hope this helps...I think being pre-menopausal plays into the Evening Primrose...there is some reason to think that after menapause, Flax seed oil may be better...as how Evening primrose oil fairs with the hormonal positives her-2 positives?? I can not say...I have no data, but for pre-menopausal hormonal negatives with lots of her-2 +++, I would take a small amount of Evening primrose oil, daily. Fyi, Gina Popp

[Unregistered]

Olive and canola are relatively low in omega 6 10% and 22% respectively (approx).

I have seen some questions on Canola. You might want to do a web search on it. There are some highly controversial opinions as to its benits. If there is anything in the suggestions it is very worrying - but what ever works for you, and my beleif is that for breast cancer sufferers reducing omega six is the paramount concern in dietary terms.

There are large numbers of suggestions that trans fats Hydrogentated fats are not benificial, but I have not looked into this in any detail. Probably like everytning else it is about quantity. Small amounts 1% of butter ( a natural trans fat) are reported as benificial (providing I suppose intake of saturated fats is ow overall).

Fish is self evidentially high in fish oils, some more than others.

Meat will provide some "dairy fats" and mid chain fatty acids. Conjugated Linoleic acid CLA from teh fat of ruminants is reported in trial as having breast cancer benifits (look it up on the NCBI site search"CLA breast cancer" and you will find of of trial summaries). This site gives a summary and has other interesting diet links. It is a supplier, but has been going a long time and is recognised by health writers.http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/jun2005_report_cla_01.htm
Grass fed beef is reported as preferable as apparently the intake of cattle of grain impacts on their own fat composition (as it dos in humans) Argentinians were reported as having lower cancer rates from memory.

Re evening primrose see the link on this page.

PLEASE PLEASE take the time to read the links on the importance of omega three and six on articles of interest. Just skim it initially and take in what you feel is comprehensible to you. I keep finding I refer back to it. It has all sorts of useful information, fat percentages, fat types, descriptions of how it all fits together, etc.


RB

[jeff]

Thanks to all, as always, for the fascinating information, thoughts, cases-made, and just taking the time to share.

I remain interested in the evening primrose oil question, but am shy about adding it to my partner Rachel's regimen, because of the proportion of omega 6 and 3 in it. Instead, I'm trying to find other ways to get her lots of omega 3s and 9s without the 6s. She is a vegan, so this is not easy--but I have just ordered some perilla seed oil, which has a really good ratio (lik 4 to 1) of omega 3 to 6.

Has anybody else tried this?

Best,
Jeff

[Unregistered]

Greens are reportedly a source of omega threes.

Given vegans ar so reliant on vegetables, and cooking can take so much out have you thought a about a juicer?

It really is much easier than you would think and the results can taste absolutely delicious.

Processed food you used to hanker after have lost a lot of their appeal when you try them again after a while as a treat (e.g. high quality crisps have totally lost their appeal).

Some domestic machines have a much wider neck which saves huge amounts of time chopping up.

Adelle Davies wrote a publication "The Raw Food Diet" or something similar which makes thougth provoking reading.

There is a long tradition of treatment with raw foods.

Whey protein also gets gets reviews and trial results.

If reliant on soy protein it is worth looking into the subject given the eostrogenic properties and potential impact of same. There is a good article on the National Nutrition site which summaries a whole heap of research.

RB

[Unregistered]

I am confused about the references to omega 6 being bad for breast cancer. I thought that omega 6 was found in evening primrose and that it was beneficial for her2+ cancer and that it caused up to a 40 fold increase in response to Herceptin. Where did you see information that omega 6 is to be avoided? I am interested in reading that article.