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Old 09-16-2007, 09:53 AM   #1
Ginagce
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Question Please Help. I Can't Go Through This Again

Hi All! I was on Arimidex for 1 1/2 years when I finally had to say "uncle" and stop taking it due to the severity of the bone and joint pain. It seems I was at the high end of the side effect scale and had become disabled from the pain. Very unusual for me. I went through chemo, including taxol, well, or so my Onc said.

I have not historically had any problems with pain, and always considered myself as one having a high tolerance for pain. But the Arimidex did me in.

So, as I said, after a year and a half, I finally gave in and stopped taking it. Within one month all bone pain was gone. I gave myself another month just to be sure and then started on Tamoxifen.

I have now been taking tamoxifen for three weeks and much to my surprise, the pain is back. I don't see this listed as a side effect of tamoxifen which is what really has me puzzled.

Has anyone on the site experienced pain with tamoxifen?

Thank in advance for your replies.

Ginangce
10 Year Survivor
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:01 AM   #2
hutchibk
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Have you tried Aromasin? That was the last one I was on. I had no noticeable side effects.
__________________
Brenda

NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)

Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~
Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~
Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~
micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~
micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg

Apr'07~
MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~
Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~
MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~
MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~
PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~
scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~
MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~
dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~
Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~
new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~
new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~
25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.

"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:06 AM   #3
Ginagce
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No I've not Brenda. At the time of the Arimidex pain, my Onc and I discussed switching to another AI. She felt that given my reaction to the Arimidex was so severe, any other AI would probably be the same. Thus the switch to Tamoxifen.
But as I sit here, I am mentally going through my list of options.
Thanks for your reply. I'll add it to my list.
Ginagce
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:36 PM   #4
Becky
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As far as AIs go, Aromosin is different than Arimidex and Femara. They all inhibit aromatase but Arimidex and Femara work in a different way and are called non-steroidal AIs and Aromosin is steroidal (working on a different part of the biochemical reaction than the other 2). It does not have the same side effects - especially the side effect that can cause some women to get high cholesterol.

There have been clinical trials on Stage 4 women who failed Arimidex but were switched to Aromosin and it worked for them because of the biochemical mechanism difference. Many women also do not get the muscle and/or joint pain from the drug.

Tamoxifen can also cause joint pain.
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Kind regards

Becky

Found lump via BSE
Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45
1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side)
2 micromets to sentinel node
Stage 2A
left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg
lumpectomies 9/7/04
4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol
Used Leukine instead of Neulasta
35 rads on right side only
4/05 started Tamoxifen
Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to
trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations
Oophorectomy 8/05
Started Arimidex 9/05
Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06
Arimidex Only
Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia

NED 18 years!

Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think"
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Old 09-16-2007, 12:59 PM   #5
hutchibk
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Becky - you just rock. I love all of your detailed info. You understand this stuff so much better than me!
__________________
Brenda

NOV 2012 - 9 yr anniversary
JULY 2012 - 7 yr anniversary stage IV (of 50...)

Nov'03~ dX stage 2B
Dec'03~
Rt side mastectomy, Her2+, ER/PR+, 10 nodes out, one node positive
Jan'04~
Taxotere/Adria/Cytoxan x 6, NED, no Rads, Tamox. 1 year, Arimadex 3 mo., NED 14 mo.
Sept'05~
micro mets lungs/chest nodes/underarm node, Switched to Aromasin, T/C/H x 7, NED 6 months - Herceptin only
Aug'06~
micro mets chest nodes, & bone spot @ C3 neck, Added Taxol to Herceptin
Feb'07~ Genetic testing, BRCA 1&2 neg

Apr'07~
MRI - two 9mm brain mets & 5 punctates, new left chest met, & small increase of bone spot C3 neck, Stopped Aromasin
May'07~
Started Tykerb/Xeloda, no WBR for now
June'07~
MRI - stable brain mets, no new mets, 9mm spots less enhanced, CA15.3 down 45.5 to 9.3 in 10 wks, Ty/Xel working magic!
Aug'07~
MRI - brain mets shrunk half, NO NEW BRAIN METS!!, TMs stable @ 9.2
Oct'07~
PET/CT & MRI show NED
Apr'08~
scans still show NED in the head, small bone spot on right iliac crest (rear pelvic bone)
Sept'08~
MRI shows activity in brain mets, completed 5 fractions/5 consecutive days of IMRT to zap the pesky buggers
Oct'08~
dropped Xeloda, switched to tri-weekly Herceptin in combo with Tykerb, extend to tri-monthly Zometa infusion
Dec'08~
Brain MRI- 4 spots reduced to punctate size, large spot shrunk by 3mm, CT of torso clear/pelvis spot stable
June'09~
new 3-4mm left cerrebellar spot zapped with IMRT targeted rads
Sept'09~
new 6mm & 1 cm spots in pituitary/optic chiasm area. Rx= 25 days of 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the tumors.
Oct'09~
25 days of low dose 3D conformal fractionated targeted IMRT to the bone mets spot on rt. iliac crest that have been watching for 2 years. Added daily Aromasin back into treatment regimen.
Apr'10~ Brain MRI clear! But, see new small spot on adrenal gland. Change from Aromasin back to Tamoxifen.
June'10~ Tumor markers (CA15.3) dropped from 37 to 23 after one month on Tamoxifen. Continue to monitor adrenal gland spot. Remain on Tykerb/Herceptin/Tamoxifen.
Nov'10~ Radiate positive mediastinal node that was pressing on recurrent laryngeal nerve, causing paralyzed larynx and a funny voice.
Jan'11~ MRI shows possible activity or perhaps just scar tissue/necrotic increase on 3 previously treated brain spots and a pituitary spot. 5 days of IMRT on 4 spots.
Feb'11~ Enrolled in T-DM1 EAP in Denver, first treatment March 25, 2011.
Mar'11~ Finally started T-DM1 EAP in Denver at Rocky Mountain Cancer Center/Rose on Mar. 25... hallelujah.

"I would rather be anecdotally alive than statistically dead."
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Old 09-16-2007, 01:16 PM   #6
CLTann
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There is very little risk in trying another brand of A.I. So, why not just trying for a few weeks. I switched from Arimidex to Ferama and eliminated the side effect. Altho these drugs are almost identical, there is some subtle difference among them. I highly recommend trying different ones before you give up.
__________________
Ann

Stage 1 dx Sept 05
ER/PR positive HER2 +++ Grade 3
Invasive carcinoma 1 cm, no node involvement
Mastec Sept 05
Annual scans all negative, Oct 06
Postmenopause. Arimidex only since Sept 06, bone or muscle ache after 3 month
Off Arimidex, change to Femara 1/12-07, ache stopped
Sept 07 all tests negative, pass 2 year mark
Feb 08 continue doing well.
Sep 09 four year NED still on Femara.
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Old 09-16-2007, 03:30 PM   #7
StillHere
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Can you wonderful members tell me if AI's actually act to kill tumor cells, or do they just inhibit estrogen and slow down any tumor growth? Can AI's acutally starve the cancer cells to death?
I go back for my 3 mo check-up on 10/1 and we discussed at my last appointment if my CA27-29 continues to rise, I would consider going back on an AI. This time I will definetly use an estrogen cream or the e-string. I have been suseptible to UTI's my entire adult life. Have one right now. I know what caused this one. Took too many antihistimines (Hayfever season) without enough water & cranberry juice. I also was drinking OJ and Diet Coke. I know better. The OJ and the Diet Coke irritate my bladder if I don't drink enough water to dilute them.
__________________
04/05 Onset 49, DCIS, solid, Hist 2/3, Nucl 2/3, 7cm R Brst
04/05 E & P + HER2+++
05/05 Mediport
05/05 Cytoxan & Adriamycin every 3wk x4
08/05 Taxol every 2wk x 4, Herceptin every wk x1yr
10/05 Bilat Mast - my Choice
10/05 3/19 lymph nodes Pos, Stage IIIa
11/05 Rad x 37 Rx, R Brst & Axcilla
02/06 Herceptin stopped (L vent HF 40)
03/06 Started & Stoped Arimidex after 2 mos.-QOL side effects
05/06 Started Tamoxafin
06/06 Bilat Free Flap Reconstruction
12/06 Cardiomyopathy reversed-HF normal
01/07 Bilat Saline Implants
07/07 CA 27-29 steadily rising from 28 in 12/06 to 46 in 7/07
07/07 PET Scan NED, but inflamation at prev surg site.
09/07 Started Femara
10/07 CA 27-29 down to 39
06/08 CA 27-29 down to 32
09/08 Lg joint pain & QOL side effects from Femara, will live w/ to keep CA markers within normal range.
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Old 09-16-2007, 04:51 PM   #8
Becky
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AIs as well as Tamoxifen inhibit out of control cell growth so that the cell dies.
__________________
Kind regards

Becky

Found lump via BSE
Diagnosed 8/04 at age 45
1.9cm tumor, ER+PR-, Her2 3+(rt side)
2 micromets to sentinel node
Stage 2A
left 3mm DCIS - low grade ER+PR+Her2 neg
lumpectomies 9/7/04
4DD AC followed by 4 DD taxol
Used Leukine instead of Neulasta
35 rads on right side only
4/05 started Tamoxifen
Started Herceptin 4 months after last Taxol due to
trial results and 2005 ASCO meeting & recommendations
Oophorectomy 8/05
Started Arimidex 9/05
Finished Herceptin (16 months) 9/06
Arimidex Only
Prolia every 6 months for osteopenia

NED 18 years!

Said Christopher Robin to Pooh: "You must remember this: You're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think"
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:16 PM   #9
caya
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Yes Ginagce, I have had joint and bone pain with Tamoxifen. I've been on it for about 2 months, and I started to experience these aches about 1 week after I started it. My hips and left knee have given me trouble, as well I have muscular rushes of pain intermittently.
I take Naproxen ( here in Canada that is like Aleve but a prescription that is stronger). I have also started taking glucosamine chondroitin as suggested by some of the gals here on the site. I think the pain is subsiding a little, and hopefully will fade as time goes on and my body adjusts to the Tamoxifen. Could be the herceptin too, which we all know can cause this type of pain and stiffness.

all the best
caya
__________________
ER90%+/PR 50%+/HER 2+
1.7 cm and 1.0 cm.
Stage 1, grade 2, Node Negative (16 nodes tested)
MRM Dec.18/06
3 x FEC, 3 x Taxotere
Herceptin - every 3 weeks for a year, finished May 8/08

Tamoxifen - 2 1/2 years
Femara - Jan. 1, 2010 - July 18, 2012
BRCA1/BRCA2 Negative
Dignosed 10/16/06, age 48 , premenopausal
Mild lymphedema diagnosed June 2009 - breast surgeon and lymph. therapist think it's completely reversible - hope so.
Reclast infusion January 2012
Oopherectomy October 2013
15 Years NED!!
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:29 PM   #10
SoCalGal
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I switched from ARimidex to Femara and was on that for years without pain.
__________________
1996 cancer WTF?! 1.3 cm lumpectomy Er/Pr neg. Her2+ (20nodes NEGATIVE) did CMF + rads. NED.
2002 recurrence. Bilateral mastectomy w/TFL autologous recon. Then ACx2. Skin lymphatic rash. Taxotere w/Herceptin x4. Herceptin/Xeloda. Finally stops spreading.
2003 - Back to surgery, remove skin mets, and will have surgery one week later when pathology can confirm margins.
‘03 latisimus dorsi flap to remove skin mets. CLEAN MARGINS. Continue single agent Herceptin thru 4/04. NED.
‘04 '05 & 06 tiny recurrences - scar line. surgery to cut out. NED each time.
1/2006 Rads again, to scar line. NED.

3/07 Heartbreaking news - mets! lungs.sternum. Try Tykerb/Xeloda. Tykerb/Carbo/Gemzar. Switch Oncs.
12/07 Herceptin.Tykerb. Markers go stable.
2/8/08 gamma knife 13mm stupid brain met.
3/08 Herceptin/tykerb/avastin/zometa.
3/09 brain NED. Lungs STABLE.
4/09 attack sternum (10 daysPHOTONS.5 days ELECTRONS)
9/09 MARKERS normal!
3/10 PET/CT=manubrium intensely metabolically active but stable. NEDhead.
Wash out 5/10 for tdm1 but 6/10 CT STABLE, PET improving. Markers normal. Brain NED. Resume just Herceptin plus ZOMETA
Dec 2010 Brain NED, lungs/sternum stable. markers normal.
MAR 2011 stop Herceptin/allergy! Go back on Tykerb and switch to Xgeva.
May-Aug 2011 Tykerb Herceptin Xgeva.
Sept 2011 Tykerb, Herceptin, Zometa, Avastin.
April 2012 sketchy drug trial in NYC. 6 weeks later I’m NED!
OCT 2012 PET/CT shows a bunch of freakin’ progression. Back to LA and Herceptin.avastin.zometa.
12/20/12 add in PERJETA!
March 2013 – 5 YEARS POST continue HAPZ
APRIL 2013 - 6 yrs stage 4. "FAILED" PETscan on 4/2/13
May 2013: rePetted - improvement in lungs, left adrenal stable, right 6th rib inactive, (must be PERJETA avastin) sternum and L1 fruckin'worsen. Drop zometa. ADD Xgeva. Doc says get rads consultant for L1 and possible biopsy of L1. I say, no thanks, doc. Lets see what xgeva brings to the table first. It's summer.
June-August 2013HAPX Herceptin Avastin Perjeta xgeva.
Sept - now - on chemo hold for calming tummy we hope. Markers stable for 2 months.
Nov 2013 - Herceptin-Perjeta-Avastin-Xgeva (collageneous colitis, which explains tummy probs, added Entocort)
December '13 BRAIN MRI ned in da head.
Jan 2014: CONTINUING on HAPX…
FEB 2014 PetCT clinical “impression”: 1. newbie nodule - SUV 1.5 right apical nodule, mildly hypermetabolic “suggestive” of worsening neoplastic lesion. 2. moderate worsening of the sternum – SUV 5.6 from 3.8
3. increasing sclerosis & decreasing activity of L1 met “suggests” mild healing. (SUV 9.4 v 12.1 in May ‘13)
4. scattered lung nodules, up to 5mm in size = stable, no increased activity
5. other small scattered sclerotic lesions, one in right iliac and one in thoracic vertebral body similar in appearance to L1 without PET activity and not clearly pathologic
APRIL 2014 - 6 YRS POST GAMMA ZAP, 7 YRS MBC & 18 YEARS FROM ORIGINAL DX!
October 2014: hold avastin, continue HPX
Feb 2015 Cancer you lost. NEDHEAD 7 years post gamma zap miracle, 8 years ST4, +19 yrs original diagnosis.
Continue HPX. Adding back Avastin
Nov 2015 pet/ct is mixed result. L1 SUV is worse. Continue Herceptin/avastin/xgeva. Might revisit Perjeta for L1. Meantime going for rads consult for L1
December 2015 - brain stable. Continue Herceptin, Perjeta, Avastin and xgeva.
Jan 2016: 5 days, 20 grays, Rads to L1 and continue on HAPX. I’m trying to "save" TDM1 for next line. Hope the rads work to quiet L1. Sciatic pain extraordinaire :((
Markers drop post rads.
2/24/16 HAP plus X - markers are down
SCIATIC PAIN DEAL BREAKER.
3/23/16 Laminectomy w/coflex implant L4/5. NO MORE SCIATIC PAIN!!! Healing.
APRIL 2016 - 9 YRS MBC
July 2016 - continue HAP plus Xgeva.
DEC 2016 - PETCT: mets to sternum, lungs, L1 still about the same in size and PET activity. Markers not bad. Not making changes if I don't need to. Herceptin/Perjeta/Avastin/Xgeva
APRIL 2017 10 YEARS MBC
December 2017 - Progression - gonna switch it up
FEB 2018 - Kadcyla 3 cycles ---->progression :(
MAY30th - bronchoscopy, w/foundation1 - her2 enriched
Aug 27, 2018 - start clinical trial ZW25
JAN 2019 - ZW25 seems to be keeping me stable
APRIL 2019 - ONE DOZEN YEARS LIVING METASTATIC
MAY 2019 - progression back on herceptin add xeloda
JUNE 2019 - "6 mos average survival" LMD & CNS new single brain met - one zap during 5 days true beam SBRT to cord met
10/30/19 - stable brain and cord. progression lungs and bones. washing out. applying for ds8201a w nivolumab. hope they take me.
12/27/19 - begin ds8401a w nivolumab. after 2nd cycle nodes melt away. after 3rd cycle chest scan shows Improvement, brain MRI shows improvement, resolved areas & nothing new. switch to plain ENHERTU. after 4th cycle, PETscan shows mostly resolved or improved results. Markers near normal. I'm stunned but grateful.
10/26/20 - June 2021 Tucatinib/xeloda/herceptin - stable ish.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:31 PM   #11
Ginagce
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Talking Thanks Ladies

As always, ask a question and get great information. Will let you know how I make out on new drug of choice!

Bless you all.

Ginagce
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:43 PM   #12
PinkGirl
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Talking pain is a real pain

Hi Ginagce
Sorry you're having all these pains. I am on Arimidex and keep threatening my onc. that I am going to go off of it. If I do, I am going to try Aromasin.
Of the three A.I.'s, Aromasin works differently than the other 2. Femera and Arimidex are non-steroidal and Aromasin is steroidal. So there is a chance that you won't get the same side effects on Aromasin. ( Gee, I think I've just about convinced myself to try it ) I also had joint pain on Tamoxafin. It wasn't as bad as Arimidex, but it was bad enough. Good luck with all of this.
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PinkGirl

Dx Aug/05 at age 51
2cm. Stage 2A, Grade 3
ER+/PR-
Her2 +++

Sept 7/05 Mastectomy
4 FAC, 4 Taxol, no radiation
1 year of Herceptin
Tamoxifen for approx. 4 months,
Arimidex for 5 years
Prophylactic mastectomy June 22/09



" I yam what I yam." - Popeye

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Old 10-02-2007, 12:50 PM   #13
Andrea Barnett Budin
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Exclamation Anti Inflammatory / Pain Relief

I don't take AIS but... RB's posts re OMEGA 3'S AND 6 (which I take) have anti-inflammatory benefits, in addition to an array of other good reasons to take these daily. Check it out! OMEGAS are big news of the day! Can't stop seeing experts on television touting these!

Andi
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Andi BB
'95 post-meno dx Invasive LOBULAR w/9cm tumor! YIKES + 2/21 nodes. Clear mammo 10 mnths earlier. Mastec/tram flap reconst/PORT/8 mnths chemo (4Adria/8CMF). Borderline ER/PR. Tamoxifen 2 yrs. Felt BLESSED. I could walk and talk, feed and bathe myself! I KNEW I would survive...

'98 -- multiple mets to liver. HER2+ 80%. ER/PR- Raging, highly aggressive tumors spreading fast. New PORT. 9 mnths Taxotere Fought fire w/fire! Pronounced in cautious remission 5/99. Taxotere weekly for 6 wks, 2 wks off -- for 9 mnths. TALK ABOUT GRUELING! (I believe they've altered that protocol since those days -- sure hope so!!)
+ good old Vit H wkly for 1st 3 yrs, then triple dosage ev 3 wks for 7 yrs more... The "easy" chemo, right?! Not a walk in the park, but not a freight train coming at 'ya either...

Added Herceptin Nov '98 (6 wks after FDA fast-tracked it for met bc). Stayed w/Vit H till July '08! Now I AM FREE! Humbly and eternally grateful for this life-saving drug! NED since '99 and planning on keeping it that way. To hell w/poor prognosis and nasty stats! STOPPED VIT H JULY '08...! REMAIN STABLE... Eternally grateful...Yes is a world & in this world of yes live (skillfully curled) all worlds ... (e e cummings) EVERY DAY I BEAT MY PREVIOUS RECORD FOR # OF CONSECUTIVE DAYS I'VE STAYED ALIVE. Smile KNOWING you too can be a miracle. Up to me and God now...
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Old 10-03-2007, 01:58 PM   #14
MJo
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Don't steroids have an anti-inflammatory effect. So would Aromasin be a better choice than Arimidex for us women with arthritis?
__________________
MJO

IDC, Stage I, Grade 2
Oncotype DX Score 32
Her2++ E+P+, Node Neg.
Lumpectomy 11/04/05 Clear Margins
3 Dose dense AC (Couldn't tolerate 4)
4 Dose dense Taxol & Herc. (Tolerated well)
36 weeks Herceptin (Could not complete one year due to decrease in MUGA score)
2 years of Arimidex, then three years of Femara
Finished Femara May 2011
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:21 AM   #15
Debra
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I recently switched from Arimidex to Aromasin and the joint/bone pain is MUCH better. It was worth it.
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Debra

Diag. 11/05 at age 40 triple positive
3.8 cm tumor and 9 mm tumor
Stage IIb/SN positive(no other nodes)Grade 3
Bilat. mastect. 12/05 (Rt.prophylactic) followed with AC/taxol/Herceptin/tamoxifen then switched to arimidex after hysterectomy in 12/06. August 07 switched to Aromasin due to severe jt. pain from Arimidex. Nov. 2011 No more meds and NED!
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