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Old 08-22-2004, 11:24 PM   #1
nikki uk
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Hi to all

I have just finished reading a book by professor Jane Plant entitled "Your Life in Your Hands", in this book she says she cured her self of breast cancer (after having had it 5 times, 5th time stage IV in kneck), the way she did this was by eliminating all dairy produce from her diet, she also upped her intake of cruciferous vegetables such as cabbage and broccoli, just wondered if any one out there is following this kind of diet? would i be silly to adapt this kind of diet myself?

There is such conflicting reports regarding nutrition and "cures" for cancer, i want to do all i can to prevent the BC from coming back, but is this just another band wagon story written by a "quack".
Any advise would be appreciated before i dump all my ben and jerrys in the rubbish bin!!!
Nikki
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Old 08-23-2004, 05:07 AM   #2
Peggy
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This reminds me of the post a couple of weeks ago about how exercise would help ward off cancer. I have been a runner for the last 12 years; averaging about 9 miles a week and I still got cancer. I was running through my first round of chemo (A/C) and 33 radiation treatments - I never stopped my excercise but still the cancer metastasized.
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Old 08-23-2004, 07:22 AM   #3
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In doing my own research I found that that one of the pathways for some breast cancer involves what is called indole 3 carbinol. I can't recall exactly what it does or doesn't do. Another thing that went along with it was p53--which I am also not exactly sure what it is other than it seems to be elevated with alot of types of breast cancer. So, based on the info I had above--I did a web search on those and diet and learned that cruciferous vegetables--cabbage as well as broccoli appear to be able to reduce those markers. However, I am not sure of the amounts that are needed to be effective. So, the vegetable Plant talks about seem to be able to interfere with one of the breast cancer pathways that need to be blocked.
Thus, her theory makes alot of sense to me--for some. As far as dairy--I don't know if that would be for all breast cancers or those who are Her2+ Initially I thought it would apply more to dairy products that were resultant of hormone fed animals. However, I don't think they allow hormone fed livestock in England or other parts of Great Britain. In reality, though, milk is a product that helps infants grow. After they reach a certain age it is no longer needed--at least in the amounts they are often fed. Interestingly we look at lower risks of breast cancer among certain Asian populations. That has been attributed to soy; however, it is my understanding that their amount of dairy product consumption is considerably less as well.
I am not sure we need to throw the baby out with the bath water--and stop feeding people milk altogether after a certain age. I am sure it might be helpful for treating a variety of adult conditions. However, I am not so sure the majority of us need it on a regular basis beyond infancy. The dairy industry has become a major part of our economy--or at least it was and milk products have been part of many of our cultures for years before that. However, that doesn't mean that they are necessarily beneficial to the majority or even a small subset of us.
And as far as Jane Plant healing herself from b.c.---does the book say where her mets were or if she were tested for metastatic disease or different types of cancers?
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Old 08-23-2004, 02:22 PM   #4
michele u
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Make sure all you gals wanting not to take dairy products that you are getting your calcium somewhere else. Taking calcium helps your bones stay stronger so if you have a mets to bones your bones will be harder for the cancer to get to.
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Old 08-23-2004, 03:27 PM   #5
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Hi - I tried staying away from dairy for at least half a year but didn't notice that it helped (the cancer ended up progressing in 2003). But just recently I had a blood allergy test taken and it seems as though I am significantly allergic to milk, cheese and egg white. So I'm going to get off of dairy again (just for my general health). I also think that the low incidence of breast cancer in China might might also be due to other unknown factors. Even though eliminating dairy didn't help my cancer I still find the growth factors in milk worrisome. I think it's great that Jane Plant found the missing key and maybe for others it is too. Regarding soy, I think that fermented soy products are really good (there are less anti nutrients in them than regular soy products-see dr john lee'sbook on breast cancer). Regards, Carol
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Old 08-25-2004, 08:22 AM   #6
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What were your ancestors eating? I was asked that question and I really thought about it. You know what? They were eating clean food, but all my grandparents never ate a salad in their lives and lived disease free. I get raw milk (certified by state). Cheese too. The whole soy thing is really blown up out of proportion. We took a potentially good thing like fermented soy products and turned it into a bandwagon of soy powders, pills and artificial food products (meat substitutes). Our people were not eating soy foods, but were actually eating meats, milks, vegetables in season, some breads, but with one difference----clean.
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Old 04-11-2011, 02:49 PM   #7
DianneS
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indole 3 carbinol (I3C)

Indole 3 carbinol is comprised of the cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, etc) and is supposed to block the pathways that can cause breast cancer. My naturopath has me on it; 200mg twice a day. I3C does not cause breast cancer.

As for dairy, unless one is a calf we don't need milk. That's a huge falacy promoted by the Milk Industry. Broccoli has lots of calcium, so do many other veggies. Check it out.

I still can't find any info here about anyone taking the I3C.

Dianne
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:19 PM   #8
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Re: dairy products

If it was as easy and simplistic as she claims to cure breast cancer, the world would be beating down her door.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:03 PM   #9
DianneS
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Re: dairy products

Excuse me? What claim? Did someone say the word 'cure' somewhere in these messages? Did I say I cured it? I would say you are really grabbing at straws here. I quoted an article regarding I3C, whereas they use the term 'blocking the pathways'. Of course they know there is more than one pathway.

Sorry you are having a bad day. Hope you feel better.

Dianne
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Dx: Aug 2008 right breast IDC with 50% of tumor DCIS, Stage II or IIA, tumor size: 2.1 cm
Grade 3
8/9 Richardson/Bloom test
ER+ weakly positive
Alred Score: 4 (suggesting I would strongly benefit from hormone therapy)
PR-,
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No vascular invasion
No lymph nodes involved
Surgery: Sept. 9, 2008 -Modified radical mastectomy, right breast. I chose to have a simple mastectomy on the left. Began Taxotere/Carboplatin/Herceptin November, 2008. Finished T/C March 2009. Finished #16 Herceptin Sept. 09. AI's and Tamoxifen made me sick. Began natural Tamoxifen which is Quercetin, I3C and a combo of other supplements. I am also a DES Daughter. There is now a link between DES exposure in utero and breast cancer!
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:12 PM   #10
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Re: dairy products

Yes, someone did use the word cure. I was responding to the first sentence in Nikki's post wherein she says Dr Plant "cured" her own cancer with this diet.
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May 2007 Core biopsy, Rt breast
ER+, Pr-, HER2 +++, Grade 3
Ki-67: 90%
"suspicious area" left breast
Bilateral mastectomy, (NED on left) May 2007
Sentinel Node Neg
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Femara (discontinued 7/07) Resumed 10/07
OncoType score 36 (July 07)
Began THC 7/26/07 (d/c taxol and carboplatin 10/07)
Began Herceptin alone 10/07
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:49 AM   #11
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Exclamation Re: dairy products

Hi All
The dietician here has advised Hema to take diluted milk with coffee (Only in the morning coffee) and at other times low fat or diluted yoghurt/butter milk and law fat cheese


She has adised lots of Broccoli Lettuce Cauliflower etc, But Bok Choi or chiense cabbage is supposed to be good
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:05 AM   #12
Ellie F
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Re: dairy products

Hi all
I notice the original thread is from some years ago. Just to clarify some of the issues. Professor Jane Plant is a respected scientist but NOT an oncologist or cancer researcher. She has stayed disease free now for over 15 years. However her bc was NOT her 2 but ER+.In her book she advises a range of actions including managing stress and avoiding chemicals etc along with a dairy free diet. Her belief is that the growth factors in dairy products stimulate the IGF and make bc cells proliferate. She was heavily influenced by the book 'The China Study' and the relatively low incidence among the population there until the move west and eat our diet.
My personal view is that she may have an angle that has some merit BUT certainly not the whole answer for ALL breast cancers!
One of the most valuable things my onc said to me was that curing cancer (of any type) was a difficult job as all cancers had individual characteristics as did all immune systems! This made sense to me and went some way towards understanding why we have different responses to treatments. We still seem a long way away from individual treatments for cancer but hopefully nearer to blocking some key pathways for her 2.

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Old 04-12-2011, 05:26 AM   #13
TanyaRD
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Re: dairy products

Thought maybe I'd chime in a little here. I realize part of this conversation is about 7 years old however it is funny how the same debate continues! Dairy intake continues to be debatable but one thing that is important to keep in mind is that after diagnosis and treatment of breast cancer (especially estrogen positive) bone health becomes even more important as treatments often strive to reduce estrogen thus offering less protection to bones. If you cut dairy out of your diet you must replace the calcium with an adequate source-probably supplementation. In regards to preventing recurrence there is one area in the research that is quite clear and that is reducing body weight to a healthy weight or maintaining an already healthy weight is known to reduce initial risk and risk of recurrence of breast cancer. That being said, obesity and overweight is ONE risk factor. Someone of normal weight can certainly still be diagnosed with breast cancer. However, this is one thing that is in our control. How we achieve that healthy weight is of course debatable. The WINS trial (see diet and nutrition section of message boards) found that women who followed a very low fat diet (15-20% calories from fat) had a significant decreased risk in breast cancer recurrence. Reducing saturated fat (animal fats mostly) appears to be critical in many studies. Increasing fruits and vegetable intake also appears to offer benefit. It is yet unclear whether or not the weight loss or the low fat diet resulting in weight loss provided the benefit in the WINS trial. This is a very difficult diet to follow and stick to (much like the Dean Ornish diet). Dr. Mary Flynn wrote a book called the Pink Ribbon Diet which is a plant based-olive oil, low calorie diet. Her study did not examine risk of recurrence but did produce successful weight loss which theoretically could decrease recurrence risk.

Overall, I don't think we have to make eating too complicated but find a healthy way of eating and moving (exercise) that fits into your lifestyle.

Tanya
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:52 AM   #14
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Re: dairy products

Have read both Plant's book and David Servan-Schreiber's book "Anti-Cancer" which also is anti dairy. I liked his more but.... each to his own.
The convincing point is that until recently, Asia had basically no BC and called it the "rich woman's disease" in Asia milk is only given to children, adults don't drink it.
Unfortunately I live in France where you can get great cheese so it's hard to avoid dairy but I have stopped eating yogurt - a favorite that I considered healthy until reading these books, and drink only a little milk in coffee.
As the Danish oncology nurse at our hospital says "the most important thing is to enjoy life so don't deprive yourself of too much". She sees many patients die and that's what she's taken away with her.
So I'd say we should lighten up on the milk, dairy, sugar and drink moderate amounts of red wine (also difficult in a country with great wine!) and also lighten up on stress and depriving ourselves. As the nurse also says, "if you feel like a bite of chocolate, go for it!"
My husband's GP told him to take ibuprofen for his arthritic pain and my husband was worried about its negative effect (none of us want to take more pills than necessary) and his French doctor said "do you want to live a longer life in pain or a shorter one without pain?" not that I think ibuprofen will shorten one's life and may even be good periodically for us since it's an anti-inflammatory.
So, maybe read those books and decide for yourselves after all the talk about soy is totally confusing: is it good? is it bad? I've decided to avoid it since I'm ER+ which is probably another reason to avoid dairy.
and don't forget to enjoy life - you know the cliche "every day's a gift!!!!"
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:22 AM   #15
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Re: dairy products

My oncologist's in-house nutritionist has recommended one yogurt with active cultures per day. I take that advice!
Karen
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:39 AM   #16
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Re: dairy products

Just received news that one of my childhood neighbor and classmates through junior high is undergoing chemotherapy. She and I are among the few that have immigrated to the U.S. She's been living in Florida while I in Central Texas for about 25 years, roughly half of our life.

I am slim and tall and athletic while she's always a little bit on the chubby side and a homebody. She's the oldest of three and I am the youngest of six. Her parents are at least 20 years younger than mine and both our Fathers are about 10 years older than our Mothers.

We grew up drinking soy milk for breakfast, though schools also provided a cup of milk for daily snack for kindergarteners and 1st graders. I've been drinking at least a big glass of (cow) milk daily at home since I was little and I doubt she does the same.
Just got a phone call from her husband who's also a classmate. She's going to have 'Targeted therapy' after ACT, so I'm assuming that she's also Her2 positive. We are the only two classmates known to have cancer so far besides one male classmate who had passed away from cancer three years ago. He lived in a different village and his family were farmers.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:40 PM   #17
LoisLane
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Re: dairy products

Hi everyone. Interesting to read all these thoughts. Thanks again Tanya for your advice. I do believe that exercising and getting our weight down is very important. I really have to get my sh*t together and get with that program. I have been slacking so I must get back on track. as far as the dairy goes I drink organic milk. Cows are grass fed and no hormones I would not think. Let me know if you guys know anything different. Well girls these posts have certainly made me determined now. Sending good wishes and continued good health to all Lois.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:30 PM   #18
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Re: dairy products

I follow a gluten and dairy free diet and marshmallows every now and then - toasted.
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1996 cancer WTF?! 1.3 cm lumpectomy Er/Pr neg. Her2+ (20nodes NEGATIVE) did CMF + rads. NED.
2002 recurrence. Bilateral mastectomy w/TFL autologous recon. Then ACx2. Skin lymphatic rash. Taxotere w/Herceptin x4. Herceptin/Xeloda. Finally stops spreading.
2003 - Back to surgery, to remove skin mets. Not able to get clear margins. So schedule another surgery one week later when pathology can confirm margins.
‘03 latisimus dorsi flap to remove skin mets. CLEAN MARGINS. Continue single agent Herceptin thru 4/04. NED.
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12/07 Herceptin.Tykerb. Markers go stable. New onc orders PET/ct & Brain MRI to re-stage me.
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12/20/12 add in PERJETA!
March 2013 – 5 YEARS POST GAMMA ZAPPA continue HAPZ
APRIL 2013 - cancerversary 17 years from original diagnosis. 6 yrs stage 4. [/COLOR][/B]
"FAILED" PETscan on 4/2/13 (WTF)
May 2013: rePetted - improvement in lungs, left adrenal stable, right 6th rib inactive, (must be PERJETA avastin) sternum and L1 fruckin'worsen. Drop zometa. ADD Xgeva. Doc says get rads consultant for L1 and possible biopsy of L1. I say, no thanks, doc. Lets see what xgeva brings to the table first. It's summer.
June-August 2013HAPX Herceptin Avastin Perjeta xgeva.
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3. increasing sclerosis & decreasing activity of L1 met “suggests” mild healing. (SUV 9.4 v 12.1 in May ‘13)
4. scattered lung nodules, up to 5mm in size = stable, no increased activity
5. other small scattered sclerotic lesions, one in right iliac and one in thoracic vertebral body similar in appearance to L1 without PET activity and not clearly pathologic
APRIL 2014 - NEWSFLASH:
6 YEARS POST GAMMA ZAPPA, 7 YEARS STAGE 4 and 18 YEARS FROM ORIGINAL DX! (CUCK FANCER)
October 2014: hold avastin, continue HPX
Feb 2015 Cancer you lost. NEDHEAD 7 years post gamma zap miracle, 8 years ST4, +19 yrs original diagnosis.
Continue Herceptin, PERJETA, xgeva. Adding back Avastin to see if lungs will go quiet
Nov 2015 pet/ct is mixed result. L1 SUV is worse. Continue Herceptin/avastin/xgeva. Might revisit Perjeta for L1. Meantime going for rads consult for L1 and due for MRI brain check (check please!).
December 2015 - brain stable. Continue Herceptin, Perjeta, Avastin and xgeva.
Jan 2016: 5 days, 20 grays, Rads to L1 and continue on HAPX. I’m trying to "save" TDM1 for next line. Hope the rads work to quiet L1. Sciatic pain extraordinaire :((
Markers drop post rads.
2/24/16 HAP plus X - markers are down: CA15‐3=46.9 CEA=12.3 CA 27.2=79 SCIATIC PAIN DEAL BREAKER.
3/23/16 Laminectomy w/coflex implant L4/5. NO MORE SCIATIC PAIN!!! Healing.
APRIL 2016 - 9 YEARS STAGE FOUR!
(20 years from original diagnosis) July 2016 - continue HAP plus Xgeva. Not NED but not DEaD.
DEC 2016 - PETCT: mets to sternum, lungs, L1 still about the same in size and PET activity. Markers not bad. Not making changes if I don't need to. Herceptin/Perjeta/Avastin/Xgeva
2017 I AM COMING FOR YOU!
April 2017 - TEN YEARS STAGE 4 - CUCK FANCER!
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:25 PM   #19
PinkGirl
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Re: dairy products

Flori ... are toasted marshmallows okay if your mother had
wide hips and you're left handed???
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Dx Aug/05 at age 51
2cm. Stage 2A, Grade 3
ER+/PR-
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Sept 7/05 Mastectomy
4 FAC, 4 Taxol, no radiation
1 year of Herceptin
Tamoxifen for approx. 4 months,
Arimidex for 5 years
Prophylactic mastectomy June 22/09



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Old 04-12-2011, 10:38 PM   #20
sarah
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Re: dairy products

My onc told me exercise and weight were the most important issues after bc.
sarah
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