The traditional diet of Greece and cancer.

[R.B.]

HI Pink Girl there is some material here that you could show to your onc.

I do not recall the Princess Margaret study - Do you have a link?.

This is the result of an NCBI search on BC and flax seed and flaxseed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...%20flax%20seed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...cer%20flaxseed

These are previous posts on this site that are particulalry useful

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/sho...+seed+estrogen

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/sho...+seed+estrogen

http://www.her2support.org/vbulletin...highlight=flax

[PinkGirl]

Thanks RB
I think the Princess Margaret study might be
the same one as the U of Toronto.

Thanks for the links.

[fullofbeans]

humm just read most of this post thank you R.B. again for some clarification especially about the veg oil one. Very informative! I had been eating lots of veg and some fish and like StephN I started to wonder if I still needed fish oil supplement..well I guess I do and will get my dose today.

Also just a little point on bioaccumulation of toxic in fish oil. You are right saying that small fish (often) contains less. If they are larger indeed they have more time to accumulate toxic. However an important factor is what they eat: if they are carnivorous and eat other fishes then they bioaccumulate much more toxic (since they take on the one of the fishes they have just absorbed). Other fishes such as the anchovy that "filter" the water are much less toxic. Therefore large predatory fish are generally the most toxic one.

[R.B.]

Hi Full of Beans,

Thank you for your thoughts on pollution of fish. I had not thought about the difference between carnivores and filter feeders. Just lower down the food chain and so less levels of concentration of pollutants I guess is the point.

I suppose it also depends how polluted the waters are where they fish come from.

Re continued Omega 3 intake. Omega three is not heavily stored in fat under 1% for many but Omega Six is 10-25% of body fat in the west so a constant supply of Omega three in general terms is needed.

The often mentioned book is nearly nearly nearly finished - again!!, it is having its final set at the moment. I have just split it down into three and four sentence pars from bigger pars which heavy readers liked but occasional readers blanched at. I had not thought to show it to occasional readers. It has grown to about 370 pages - size 17cm by 24.4cm - 30 chapters each split into a number of small sections each covering a topic - over 800 refs, and hopefully understandable.

[R.B.]

Hi

Sorry some how I posted twice so I have deleted the contents of one.

RB

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

Very exciting RB! I understand being into the 100th edit, and I am far away from publishing! As Oscar Wilde said, "I have spent most of the day putting in a comma, and the rest of the day taking it out"... (Not to even mention Flori's comma woes!) Best of luck on your book, RB!!

My oncological nutritionist has told me to stay away from larger fish as they contain more mercury, having had more time to absorb it, just as FOB says. So I've been staying away from tuna. Today a friend told me about TONGOL TUNA! It is smaller, wild caught (as opposed to farm raised which has toxins and ?hormones). Any one hear about this? It's in all the health food stores around here. Whole Foods, etc.

They swim in Thailand and do not swim w/the dolphins, thus not endangering them.
Andi

[R.B.]

Intriguing !

" Considerable evidence suggests strongly that the n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) content of adipose breast tissue is inversely associated with an increased risk of breast cancer."

More questions than answers but these two trials do underline fats play important roles in breast function, which given breasts function is to supply nutrients including fats, is unsurprising.


Long chain Omega 3s DHA and EPA may be fundamental to function breasts in pregnancy, and may have a part in explaining lower rates in women that have been pregnant based on trials in mice.

Also FAS an enzyme critical to making fats from scratch is often hyperactive and over expressed in some aggressive breast cancers, and may be driven in the line of cells examined by HER2. Why does the breast switch on its fat making enzymes in cancer and what has it got do do with HER2? Omega 3s may turn down FAS.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ractPlusDrugs1

"Activity and expression of fatty acid synthase (FAS), a critical enzyme in the de novo biosynthesis of fatty acids in mammals, is exquisitely sensitive to nutritional regulation of lipogenesis in liver or adipose tissue. Surprisingly, a number of studies have demonstrated hyperactivity and overexpression of FAS (oncogenic antigen-519) in a biologically aggressive subset of human breast carcinomas,"......"FAS overexpression in SK-Br3 breast cancer cells is driven by increases in HER-2/neu signaling,"......"GLA- and/or omega-3 PUFA-induced repression of tumor-associated FAS may represent a novel mechanism of PUFA-induced cytotoxicity clinically useful against breast carcinomas carrying overexpression of FAS enzyme;"


BUT if you don't eat it you don't have it as the body cannot make Omega 3s from other fats. The body just is not able to make Omega 3s. It can convert the mother fat found in vegetable sources to the long chain fats if the pathways are not blocked.

This trial below is essentially saying that if you could make your own Omega 3 your breasts would want to make more of it in pregnancy because that is what genetically altered mice that can make Omega 3s do.

And that Omega 3s have a big part to play in changing the status of fat producing cells in the breast.

The mouse referred to is a genetically altered mouse with genes from a worm that allows the mouse to convert Omega six to omega three (which we cannot do) and from vague memory even make its own Omega six which we also cannot do.


Activation of Stat5 and induction of a pregnancy-like mammary gland differentiation by eicosapentaenoic and docosapentaenoic omega-3 fatty acids.
Liu YE, Pu W, Wang J, Kang JX, Shi YE.

Feinstein Institute for Medical Research, Department of Radiation Oncology, Long Island Jewish Medical Center, The Albert Einstein College of Medicine, New Hyde Park, NY 11040, USA.

The protective effect of early pregnancy against breast cancer can be attributed to the transition from undifferentiated cells in the nulliparous to the differentiated mature cells during pregnancy. Considerable evidence suggests strongly that the n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) content of adipose breast tissue is inversely associated with an increased risk of breast cancer. Here, we report that there was a decrease in the n-6/n-3 PUFA ratio and a significant increase in concentration of n-3 PUFA docosapentaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid in the pregnant gland. The functional role of n-3 PUFAs on differentiation was supported by the studies in the fat-1 transgenic mouse, which converts endogenous n-6 to n-3 PUFAs. Alternation of the n-6/n-3 ratio in favor of n-3 PUFA, and particularly docosapentaenoic acid, in the mammary gland of fat-1 mouse resulted in development of lobulo-alveolar-like structure and milk protein beta-casein expression, mimicking the differentiated state of the pregnant gland. Docosapentaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid activated the Jak2/Stat5 signaling pathway and induced a functional differentiation with production of beta-casein. Expression of brain type fatty acid binding protein brain type fatty acid binding protein in virgin transgenic mice also resulted in a reduced ratio of n-6/n-3 PUFA, a robust increase in docosapentaenoic acid accumulation, and mammary differentiation. These data indicate a role of mammary derived growth inhibitor related gene for preferential accumulation of n-3 docosapentaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid in the differentiated gland during pregnancy. Thus, alternation of n-6/n-3 fatty acid compositional ratio in favor of n-3 PUFA, and particularly docosapentaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid, is one of the underlying mechanisms of pregnancy-induced mammary differentiation.

[R.B.]

Pink Girl - One of `those coincidences' I came across this doing a spur of the moment search on google on flax and HER2 - it was my first pick on the 1st page and had no mention of the Princess Margaret hospital in the title (see above post) !



"The results of this clinical trial are in agreement with previous clinical and preclinical studies showing antitumor effects of flaxseed in prostate cancer patients (53), carcinogen-treated rats (32), athymic mice with established ER-positive (33), or ER-negative breast cancers (34, 35), and tumor-bearing transgenic mice (54). The 5% or 10% flaxseed diet used in the animal studies is approximately equivalent to 25 to 30 g of flaxseed given to patients with breast or prostate cancer, depending on the amount of other foods consumed. Our results are also in line with epidemiologic studies showing that high levels of lignan intake (26), plasma or urinary excretion of mammalian lignans (23–25) or high levels of {alpha}-linolenic acid in adipose tissues (28) are associated with a reduced risk of breast cancer."

Dietary Flaxseed Alters Tumor Biological Markers in Postmenopausal Breast Cancer
Lilian U. Thompson1, Jian Min Chen1, Tong Li2, Kathrin Strasser-Weippl2 and Paul E. Goss3

Authors' Affiliations: 1 Department of Nutritional Sciences, 2 Princess Margaret Hospital, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and 3 Massachusetts General Hospital Cancer Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.or...ull/11/10/3828

[fullofbeans]

R.B. I did not know that you were writing a book on fats well done!

Well in that case if you need more precise info on pollutant bioaccumulation let me know. The actual issue is rather more complicated for example it also depends on migratory pattern, temperature (impact on their growth), spawning frequency (for example salmon spawn once in their life time other fish spawn several time a year) ect.. If I were you and if you wanted to touch on this subject I may consider to simply have a list of fish and their concurrent analysis of pollutant. From an ecological point of view I would also put whether the stock was fished in a sustainable manner, let's look after our ocean if we want to continue eating wild fish in the future.

I hope it helps

[fullofbeans]

Whilst I am here ok I recently purchased a new fish oil supplement:
and the nutrition info is that out of the 500mg capsule: EPA 240 and DHA is 160mg. My old one (cheaper) was 1000mg with 165 mg EPA and 110DHA.

Obviously the recently purchased one seems much better doesn't it? I still however wonder: what is the rest made of? for example the recently purchase omg3 supplement has 38% omega 3, but what is the rest then; bearing in mind that the ratio of equilibrium mentioned seems to be much higher than that.

Whilst I am at it what fish oil sup would you recommend and how many per day should you take if you have a reasonably healthy diet? Many thanks

[PinkGirl]

Super Potent Flax Seed Muffins

The following is the recipe used in clinical research on flax seed and breast cancer. The recipe yields a week¹s supply of muffins (7 muffins). Each muffin provides 25 grams of flax seed.

5/8 cup all-purpose flour
3/4 cup ground flaxseed
3/8 cup brown sugar
1/2 tbsp baking powder
1/2 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1 1/2 cups skim milk

Bake muffins at 350°F for 30 minutes.

[R.B.]

Many Thanks Full of beans.

I would be fascinated.

There is a chapter on wider environmental source and supply issues including ocean sources and high demands / efficiency issues of fish farming - algal production, genetic manipulation of crops etc, but it is fairly general.

Maybe the next edition!

[fullofbeans]

Pinkgirl
: 7 days supply..uh.. because it is for 7 muffins..uh..not in my neck of the wood!!! more like 2 days :-) if it is in my house..muffins enter at your own risks..

Also I may want to add that I would replace sugar with xylitol (it is natural wood sugar despite chemical sounding name) and milk with oat milk...

humm flax seeds I wonder how long do they last if they are kept in the freezer (once packet open),anyone?

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

I am taking MEGA EFA 1480 (EPA 400) (DHA 400) X 3 a day. This per nutritional oncologist. You can hardly turn on the news w/o hearing someone touting OMEGA 3s these days! RB's new book will be hitting the shelves at a most opportune time.

Remind us please, RB -- of the title we should be looking for. I know not yet, but sooooonnnn...

I know Salmon is full of Omega 3s. Anyone know about Chilean Sea Bass? I had it last night for dinner. It was delicious!
Andi

[R.B.]

Hi Full of Beans

I cannot make specific recommendations as to amounts.

Recommendations vary from 300mg of DHA to about 1.5 grams of DHA (2.7 grams DHA plus EPA). Some trials look at higher amounts. Regular intake is essential as the body does not store much Omega 3.

A trial suggested western women's uptake of DHA dropped off at about 2grams of DHA a day.

My personal take is that most in the west will have relatively high fat stores of Omega Six, and Omega six lurks everywhere in the processed food chain, nuts are generally high in Omega 6, so aim for a balance in the recognition the reality will be lower.

The vegetable based mother fats of Omega 6 and 3 and the long chain 3s need considering separately. The vegetable fats are both essential to body function and are about balanced in greens. Omega six mother fat is stored in fat between 5-25% dependent on dietary intake. The mother Omega three is not heavily stored. So it is a question of taking a sensible view on your Omega 3:6 mother fat balance taking into account existing fat stores in determining your intake of mother fats eg flax oil, olive oil, 369 oils etc.

The long chain fats can be made by the body from the mother Omega 3 but lots of things stop conversion. The body deals with all the fats differently and uses them for different things. I personally aim for 1.5 grams a day plus of DHA so 3tps plus of a quality fish oil. This is the best I have found so far http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-Norw...igh-In-EPA-DHA
http://www.vitacost.com/Carlson-The-...inest-Fish-Oil

A mix of fish oil and cod liver will reduce the risk of excess A or D as fish oil does not contain significant A and D, although Cod liver does. Check labels for contents.

It is complex there are no absolute answers.

Fish oil composition details can be found on Nutritiondata.com
http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Please talk to your doctor about dietary change as fish oil can cause blood thinning and have other effects in a small number of people.

Andi BB - the book has come back, I have read it again!, - I think I am going word blind, - and gone back for hopefully the last few little bits - so soon!

RB

[fullofbeans]

Thank you very much for the further information much appreciated!

[R.B.]

Just bringing the thread back up for people that may not have seen it.

This video link is a bit complex in part but once it get past the PPARs it gives a fascinating insight into the growing appreciation that body functions all interlink and the potential impact of food in diet - gene expression - nutrigenomics - the effect of food on genes.

You can also see that those in commercial research are beginning to recognise a potential blurring of lines between drugs and food agents and the complications that causes for them.


http://videocast.nih.gov/launch.asp?13776

[R.B.]

Interesting trial in lung cancer where the immune system is failing. The trial suggest fish oil fish oil may benefit and act as COX2 blocker. Fish oil has been shown to have the ability to intervene in the COX2 pathways.

RB


Effects of eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic n-3 fatty acids from fish oil and preferential Cox-2 inhibition on systemic syndromes in patients with advanced lung cancer.
Cerchietti LC, Navigante AH, Castro MA.

Translational Research Unit, Angel H Roffo Cancer Institute, Universidad de Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina. lcerchie@aecom.yu.edu

"Under the common denomination of Systemic Immune-Metabolic Syndrome (SIMS), we grouped many symptoms that share a similar pathophysiologic background. SIMS is the result of the dysfunctional interaction of tumor cells, stroma cells, and the immune system, leading to the release of cytokines and other systemic mediators such as eicosanoids. SIMS includes systemic syndromes such as paraneoplastic hemopathies, hypercalcemia, coagulopathies, fatigue, weakness, cachexia, chronic nausea, anorexia, and early satiety among others.......Comparing both groups, patients receiving fish oil + celecoxib showed significantly lower C-RP levels (P = 0.005, t-test), higher muscle strength (P = 0.002, t-test) and body weight (P = 0.05, t-test) than patients receiving fish oil + placebo. The addition of celecoxib improved the control of the acute phase protein response, total body weight, and muscle strength. Additionally, the consistent nutritional support used in our patients could have helped to maximize the pharmacological effects of fish oil and/or celecoxib. This study shows that by modulating the eicosanoid metabolism using a combination of n-3 fatty acids and cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitor, some of the signs and symptoms associated with a SIMS could be ameliorated.

[TSund]

Just in case someone's curious, we are taking "Omega Ultra Marine" (brand is Designs for Health) that go heavy on the Omega 3's. They have another product that has more of a balance between 3 and 6's, but after reading RB's comments, I figured we were getting 6's in the diet and needed to lean towards the Omega 3's. This one has 550 mg per softgel with 300 mg EPA and 200 mg. Fish oil is from anchovy and sardine.

[Andrea Barnett Budin]

FYI -- I am taking OMEGA 3 EPA (800) w/ DHA (400) x 3 a day. I too feel I am getting Omega 6s naturally and need to boost my 3s. I get most of my supplements from Vitacost on the net.

Andi