ketogenic diet and blood glucose

[VDC]

Okay, this doesn't make sense to me! If cancer uses glucose as its primary food source, then how on earth does the keto diet help with cancer? The keto diet usually increases blood glucose! Cancer doesn't care about the ketones....since it can't use ketones. But cancer does care about glucose, so increased glucose should HELP cancer grow not kill it regardless of the level of ketones.

Here is a layperson's article about increased glucose in ketogenic dieters:

http://ketopia.com/high-blood-sugar-...nd-metabolism/

My background is Organic and Biochemistry so these questions are ones that I just can't overlook! Help anyone?

[Debbie L.]

This is interesting. And dense! However, if I'm reading this study correctly (click on free full text for the PDF), the percent of the population studied who had the allele (TT) that seemed strongly associated with increased glucose levels in response to high fat diet (and apparent corresponding lower glucose levels with low fat) was very small. Only 25 of 712 participants had the double T allele. So while still interesting, it seems irrelevant to most. Also, they were not looking at a ketogenic diet, but rather low fat/high fat (which they say was by default high carb/low carb).

There has been a LOT of research r/t type II diabetes, insulin resistance, carbohydrate intake, and glucose levels that all points to success in lowering blood sugar and insulin resistance with dietary interventions (limited carbs, perhaps high fiber) for most people. I don't think this evidence is strong enough to refute that evidence, although it raises the issue that one size may not fit all in this regard.

I don't know much about the idea that a ketogenic diet can affect cancer. I do know that it's much more complex than just looking at blood sugar levels. I think it has more to do with insulin resistance (and thus hyperinsulinemia). Insulin is a growth factor, and some cancers overexpress various insulin receptors, which is an area of research interest. We know that obese people and/or type II diabetics have worse cancer outcomes. However, like everything else, it's complex and we don't (IMHO) know enough yet to draw conclusions about the details.

Debbie Laxague

[VDC]

The reason I find it interesting is because since doing the ketogenic diet (7 weeks now) my glucose has INCREASED from a usual 75-90 to 100-110. My ketones have been quite high 4-6 etc. But with the increase in glucose, I'm wondering about modifying it. I've been trying to figure out WHY my blood glucose is higher since beginning a ketogenic diet. I can't find any other research that has been done on it. Any ideas?

And here is a scholarly article relating the increased glucose intolerance on a KD.
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/306/5/E552

[donocco]

The idea behind the ketogenic diet is that cancer cells cant use ketones to generate ATP
(stored chemical energy) whereas normal body cells can. I read the book "The Metabolic Theory of Cancer" and because of my pharmacy training I basically understood the biochemistry. It brought back memories going back decades.

When I started the book I had high hopes. Obviously we need a change in cancer therapy, a big one. Yet the Ketogenic diet the author suggests is also basically a starvation diet like the old Allen diet for insulin dependent diabetes before there was Insulin. The author's son said it was not that bearable.

I cant be sure but my guess the reason that your glucose is rising rather than falling is that although you are following the ketogenic diet. you are taking in too many calories. Ill doublecheck the book.

Paul

[VDC]

Thanks! I would think so too except that I am slightly underweight for my height. I'm 5' 7" and 117 pounds. And I'm very careful about the calories that I eat. (7 years ago I lost 95 pounds). I am doubtful that it is a calorie issue. I've maintained the 1400-1500 calories that my body needs to maintain its weight.

[donocco]

I glanced at the book and the author states that eating too much of the Ketogenic diet causes Insulin resistance and hyperglycemia. When you read the words "too much" I think unconciously you think "to much" in terms of weight.
From what I read if you dont feel constantly hungry it may be too much. Ill have to reread this more carefully. The book is quite technical.

One posible suggestion. Get a doctor to prescribe Metformin say 500mg twice daily. To take Metformin might be a good idea anyway, but it tends to decrease any Insulin resistance. Your weight is good and really so is your blood sugar. Like I said, starting this book I had high hopes. His ideas seem sound but putting these ideas into practical use is easier said than done. If you are taking any steroid like Dexamethasone, this will increase blood sugar.
Hope this helps a bit.

Paul

[VDC]

I am ALWAYS hungry! Hunger has been my constant companion since I lost the weight 7 years ago!

And in the last 6-7 weeks while on the keto diet I have actually lost a pound or two.....

So, I"m not sure how to interpret "too much" As in too much time on the keto diet?

It can't be too much as in calories because I have actually lost a couple of pounds.

Just looking for ideas here! I'm at a loss.

just for more information, I actually tested my glucose 6 times throughout the day! Starting when I first woke up! 96 when I first awoke....and it never deviated more than 8 points! From 96-104. Interesting, but not terribly helpful!

[donocco]

I dont know what to say. Its not a question of too long on the diet because the idea was to be on it for life. Once again Ill mention talking to the doc about Metformin. This drug may be valuable in cancer by itself.

I doubt the diet is hurting. See the effect it has on cancer progression. Try not to stress about the blood sugar. Test for ketosis and see how high it goes. Your blood sugar is not clinically high. The stress the levels are causing you by constant testing can actually raise the blood sugar. Stress increases Hydrocortisone and this increases blood sugar. You are doing your best. Wait to see the results. I realize its easier said than done.
Paul

[VDC]

Well....I don't think the keto diet works for my body! I received the results of my latest lipid labs and although it isn't supposed to happen on a keto diet, my LDL rose 40 points! From 90 to 130. This is simply not acceptable since my family has familial hypercholesterolemia and have had elevated LDL from prenatal times. (mine was a LDL of 460 before lipitor) Ideally my LDL should be 70 with the familial hypercholesterolemia but the 90 was acceptable. The 130 is not.

Everything would indicate that I haven't been in ketosis, except for the little testing which indicates I have been. So, for some odd reason my body does NOT like being in ketosis! And in fact, I have struggled with nausea and flu like symptoms for almost the entire 7 weeks! I think it is probably time to call it quits!

However, I AM going to stick to a very low carb diet (20 grams or less like I am currently) BUT I simply have to reduce the fats in my diet.....particularly saturated ones. The fats are sending my lipids up to where they increase my risk of heart disease...and as a left breasted BC woman I don't need any more heart risk factors!

I am also going to increase some protein. I"m not exactly sure just how much protein to increase to, but with the loss of carbohydrates and fats from my diet, I need something to replace those calories with!

I guess I'm just one of those "outliers" when it comes to ketosis!

[VDC]

Wow, I forgot what it felt like to feel GOOD! I had been on the keto diet for about 7 weeks and the entire time felt like I had a slight case of the flu. I became so accustomed to it that I forgot what it really felt like to feel good! Now that I've modified my diet to be low carb AND low fat, I feel SO much better. And my blood glucose has dropped and even my post prandial glucose is rarely over 100. This is definitely a better fit for my body!