The merits of SAMe and Glutathione

Hello all,

I've been doing a fair amount of research into SAMe, which is a supplement with very powerful anti-depressant properties and probably the top liver salvager there is. Lois recently posted an article in "submitted articles" on Glutathione: and it's benefits to cancer.
http://www.her2support.org/forums/in...howtopic=21665


SAMe is a supplement that is a precursor to glutathione and cysteine, both of which are criticle to liver function. SAMe is also and anti-oxident.

For ladies in the same boat as my wife Linda, nursing a liver sick with cancer mets is an important issue! SAMe is provent to be just as, if even more effective that milk thistle in live disorders. Just "google" "SAME and Liver"

Her's the dilemma: if SAMe and glutathione and cyctein are anti-oxidents, what is the relationship or effacy with co-administration of the above with chemo for liver mets??

I plan to put Linda on SAMe during her 1 week "off" time on her 3 week xeloda treatment cycle. This compound is so potent that we would be remiss not examining SAMe and chemo.

Ladies, guys, help me draw some conclusions here because.....I strongly feel finding the right tx plan will benefit us all.

Al

I apologize for the spelling in the previous post however I do know our "new improved board" will have a spell check.
Al

Al, I hope you find some answers to this! I am also very interested in Sam-e. I have lung mets, not liver mets, but wonder if Sam-e would strengthen the liver to avoid liver mets. ALso, why doesn't Linda take Sam-e during chemo? IS it counter-productive or harmful to take it with chemo? WHat about with Herceptin? I really appreciate your many very provocative insight on this board! Thank you. Tricia

Tricia,
The jury is still out on Anti-oxidents and chemo....and SAMe is an anti-oxident. The resason for this is that many chemos are "oxidants" so it doesn't make sense combining those with anti-oxidants. There is a study that proved curcumin actually reduces the effacy of AC & T (I think those were the chemos).

The research continues.........
Al

But, Al, is Herceptin alone considered a chemo? Or Herceptin along with Femara? I am really interested in Sam-e. Tricia

Tricia,
My understanding is that herceptin is a biological treatment and femara is hormonal based.

There is one school of thought that suggests that using anti-oxidants strengthens the cancer cells making them more vunerable as selective chemo targets. I think that what we'll eventually discover is that certain chemo drugs work in synergy with, or are agonists to, or are neutral to anti-oxident therapies. The other thing is that certain anti-oxidants probably work differently than others.

Very complicated I admit however, I personally would have no problem taking SAMe with herceptin (or femara).

In the case of Xeloda, the week off is recovery time for the body and I feel that the SAMe would give the healthy or recovering liver cells a kick-start from the chemo on-slaught.

My belief is that the body's best defense against cancer is the immune system and even if you have cancer, you still have to work on the body and hopefully prevent future mets. It just makes sense to me that healthy cells won't get cancer! That's the main reason why Linda is on neupogen as well: because we convinced the onc that rather than dose reduction (either milligrams or number of doses)full dose + biological support may work better. This approach is largely untried as far as I know and I guess time will tell!

Al

Where it says Guest, it's really me (al from canada); I just forgot to log in.

Al

Why not have Linda try Leukine instead of Neupogen? Leukine also boosts WBC but it also boosts the dendrites (the WBC that "codes" for foreign cells/cancer and then rushes to the lymph nodes so that killer T cells can be made specifically against that "thing"). Basically, it is like self vaccination. I think they are also using Leukine in the vaccination trials.

Leukine is also known as GM-CSF. Just a thought. I personally used Leukine instead of Neulasta as my WBC booster during dense dose chemo. If you want any other info, Berlex Labs has a website just on Leukine.

Best regards

Becky

Becky,
Thank you so much for your suggestion! I will certainly look into that and it's availability in Canada.

Tricia,
I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts as I research more.

Check this out:


"What is SAMe?

SAMe, (which is also known as SAM or AdoMet) is a synthetic form of a natural metabolite of the amino acid methionine."

and so it follows that they will have the same effects. That being said, I found a number of articles bashing Met (methionine). When reading the summary of the first, TPN means intravenous nutrician. Note they use 5FU which is xeloda's metabolite.

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/7/698.pdf

The next is a short article suggesting the same:

http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S...&journalCode=nc

What are your thoughts.....I need others to weigh-in as well.

Al

Al, I tried to read the two articles, but unfortunately, the first one was pdf, which for some reason my old computer can't handle (It shut the whole system down!) and the second one just had a message that my computer couldn't accept cookies! (I am getting a new computer Saturday, hurray!) So I will have to ask you to interpret and tell me "Should I take Sam-e or not?" I was just ready to go to Costco today and buy some! I can't tell you how much we appreciate all the tremendously helpful discussions you all share on this board. My husband is a psychologist and he says it has been proven that people who meet in cancer groups live longer, and I realize that this is indeed a specialized cancer group, even though we don't meet in person and sit around in chairs. It is really great and I appreciate you all! Tricia

Al

I read the pdf file. It seems to me that Met may have some protective effect on gastric cancer (according to this work). But also remember that gastric cancer is a sarcoma versus a carcinoma and they arise from a different cellular structure from each other with breast cancer arising from epithilial cells. It could be vastly different in other parts of the body. Is there any work on breast, ovarian or prostate cancers (as these are related and are epithilial cell types)?

Just wondering

Best regards,

Becky

Becky,
Yes, read the second file.
Al

Al

I cannot read the second file because my brower does not accept cookies. If you want to email me as a word file at

phollis@att.net

I will answer you on the board or if you can post the article on the board in a different way...

Becky

Here you go, Al

Abstract
Nutrition and Cancer
2000, Vol. 38, No. 1, Pages 123-130
(doi:10.1207/S15327914NC381_17)



Molecular Mechanisms of Cell Cycle Block by Methionine Restriction in Human Prostate Cancer Cells

Shan Lu, Daniel E. Epner​*



Previous studies have shown that dietary or pharmacological methionine restriction inhibits growth of human prostate cancer cells in vitro or as xenografts in mice. We undertook the present studies to clarify the molecular mechanisms by which methionine restriction inhibits prostate cancer cell growth. We found that PC-3 and DU 145 cells stopped proliferating within six days in growth medium containing homocysteine in place of methionine. In contrast, proliferation of LNCaP cells was only partially inhibited by the absence of methionine. Using flow cytometry, we found that methionine restriction caused PC-3 cells to arrest in all phases of the cell cycle, but predominantly in the G2/M phase, whereas LNCaP cells accumulated exclusively in the G1 phase. Methionine restriction led to accumulation of the cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitors p21 and p27, as determined by Western blot analysis, and inhibited the enzymatic activities of the cyclin-dependent kinases CDK2 and cdc2, as determined by an in vitro kinase assay. However, methionine restriction had little or no effect on CDK2 or cdc2 protein levels. Methionine restriction also induced PC-3 cells to undergo apoptosis, as indicated by the appearance of a typical nucleosomal ladder on gel electrophoresis of genomic DNA. We conclude that methionine restriction has potential as a novel treatment strategy for prostate cancer.

Cited by
Ya-Min Fu, Zu-Xi Yu, Yi-Qi Li, Xiaokang Ge, Phillip J. Sanchez, Xing Fu, Gary G. Meadows​*. (2003) Specific Amino Acid Dependency Regulates Invasiveness and Viability of Androgen-Independent Prostate Cancer Cells. Nutrition and Cancer 45:1, 60-73
Online publication date: 1-Jan-2003.
Abstract | Printable PDF (919 KB) | PDF with links (230 KB)
W.K. Liu, S.C.W. Sze, J.C.K. Ho, B.P.L. Liu, M.C. Yu​*. (2004) Wheat germ lectin induces G2/M arrest in mouse L929 fibroblasts. Journal of Cellular Biochemistry 91:6, 1159
CrossRef
Printable PDF (871 KB) PDF with links (117 KB)

Al

I believe the second article has more weighted merit (ie: prostate cancer) than the first article (gastric cancer). The cellular structure of prostate and breast (as well as ovarian) cancers are very similar and should respond in a similar manner. If SamE and glutathione assist with liver function and recovery, this should help with the liver mets situation, especially if you wait a couple of days after the chemo treatment.

Increasing the p27 and p21 inhibitors (proteins) are a real plus as far as prognostic factors go (as one regulates cell division and differentation as well as proliferation). You want these proteins to be as elevated as possible in the cell.

Best regards and have a nice weekend,

Becky