Results of Chat on Nutrition and Supplements

[Maryanne]

At this time a transcript of our first moderated chat on "Nutrition and Supplements" is not available. As a result, Becky and I thought it would be of benefit to start a thread specifically for posting what supplements members are taking and any additional ideas you might want to share on nutrition. Until transcripts become available, having all posts on the same subject in one thread will be of help to alot of us who were unable to attend as well as those who's questions might not have been answered.

Please feel free to post below,
Maryanne and Becky

[Maryanne]

Supplements I am currently taking:

Multivitamin
I3C 200mg 3 x day
CLA 1000mg 3 x day
Curcumin 900mg 2x day
CoQ10 100mg 3x day ( took 90mg a day during Chemo)
Green Tea Tabs (5) 350 mg a day( I also drink green tea throughout the day)
EPA/ DHA ( Life Extension contains 2000mg of fish oil,700mg of EPA,500mg of DHA) 2 x day
Mega GLA ( Life Extension) 2 tabs a day
Whey protein shake( Life Extension) raises glutathione in healthy cells reduces it in cancer cells) a day
1 tablespoon of flax seed a day
Cook with only olive oil and canola oil
No cheese or milk except yogurt plain
No meats of any kind
No sugar or white flour
Would definitely recommend Life Extension, they have a great site with search engine as well as an impressive advisory board.
Try to follow Dr Patrick Quillen's book "Fighting Cancer with Nutrition"
When on Chemo took only Multivit and COQ10
Currently on Herceptin for 1 year

[CherylS]

Good idea for this thread. I was unable to log in to the chat room last night, but really wanted to.

This is my list of supplements, approved by my onc. I would sure like to hear what you all have to say though.

Olive oil only
Vitamin C 1,000mg x 2 day
Calcium +D 600 mg. x 2 day
Multivitamin
Vitamin E 400 IU x 2 day
EPA, DHA 850mg and 200 mg x 2 day
evening primrose oil 1 day
alpha lipoic acid x 2 day
Whey Protein 20 grams day
milk thistle 1800mg x 2 day
COQ10 100 mg. day
Beta Carotene 25,000 IU day
garlic 1000 mg. day
magnesium 250 mg. day
B 100 complex 1 day
NAC 1 a.m. and 1 p.m.
melatonin 6 mg. at bedtime
I am on Arimidex
I take Atavan one or two per day
currently using Vicodin for pain from Tissue Expanders, 1-2 per day.

Looks like I should add curcurmin and flax oil. What is I3C? I just recently saw another post on this. Where is it available? Any other thoughts? I appreciate your help.

[Becky]

I take a multi with everything that includes literally everything. I also take:

100mg Co Q10 3X a day
1000 mg fish oil 4X a day
500 mg Evening Primrose 1X day
250 mg standardized olive leaf extract 3X day
50 mg zinc every other day
250 mg magnesium every other day (opposite day of zinc)
1000 mg maitake 2X day
1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil daily
only cook with olive oil or canola oil
drink pomegrante juice - about 4 oz every morning
blueberries every day

That's it. I am thinking about Zyflamend.

For the record, Joe let me know today that he will probably be able to post the chat soon (for everyone to read). Next Sunday, December 11 at 8 pm EST is a free form chat. The next topic chat is on the 18th at 8pm EST and it's subject is Advice on getting thru diagnosis and chemo. Come prepared to let folks know what worked for you to relieve symptoms (like sucking on ice during chemo treatment in order to prevent or reduce mouth sores) and those on chemo to ask how to relieve symptoms.

Becky

[al from Canada]

As promised, a list of supplements that we use and links to (hopefully) validate their use is posted in a sepate thread called

Moderated Chat Room #1 Supplement summaries and links


Have fun,
Al

[RhondaH]

I have to admit…I’m the strange one of the group…I take 1, 200mg Coenzyme Q10 supplement daily to keep my heart healthy while on Herceptin. The BALANCE of what I take is dietary. I follow the Diana Grant Dyer Breast Cancer Diet (she is a 3 time cancer survivor who is a registered dietician and I STRONGLY recommend her diet, book and website. (http://www.prevention.com/article/0,5778,s1-1-93-43-270-1,00.html?) as when I was first diagnosed, I read that supplements provide only 10% of what the actual food does. I do it RELIGIOUSLY 6 days a week and give myself 1 “cheat day” (even this day I also drink my TBS of olive oil and the shake (which incidentally, my 4yo even likes). I am including some excerpts from her diet as to why I do what I do (comments in bold and parenthesis are mine or points I want to emphasize). I didn’t do it while on chemo as doing TEC (Taxotere, Epirubicin and Cytoxan) every 2 weeks for 6 rounds, I needed as much protein as I could get AND I got diarrhea REAL BAD. Also, you should stay away from grapefruit while “doing drugs” as you don’t want it to interfere with the efficacy of the drugs (I’ll start eating it AFTER Herceptin).



Breastcancer.org Info
Grapefruit juice and medication

• Certain components in grapefruit decrease the level of a particular enzyme that helps clear medications from the body
• This interaction causes unpredictable changes in the amount of medication that your body can absorb
• Medicine that accumulates in the body may cause an increase in side effects
• Do not eat grapefruit or drink the juice while on tamoxifen, since grapefruit can interfere with absorption



“I wanted everything that I put in my mouth to help maximize my potential for long-term survival from cancer.”



“3 to 6 Servings a Day of Whole Grain Foods
I threw away my white rice and now use a variety of whole grains such as brown rice, bulgur, and wheat berries. I buy only whole grain bagels, breads, cereals, crackers, tortillas, and pasta. This maximizes my intake of fiber, which may fight breast cancer by lowering levels of estrogen in the body.”



“1 or 2 Servings a Day of Beans
I can honestly say that my gastrointestinal tract has adapted, with a minimum of physical and social discomfort, to having beans every day! I put beans in everything from soups to salads to pizza for a huge fiber boost. I always have bean soup on hand, and I eat lots of hummus made from chickpeas. I use a lot of canned beans because they're quick and easy to keep in the pantry.” (I don’t like garbanzo beans so I put ½ c. in my shake every day…can hardly taste them.)



“A Handful of Nuts Several Times a Week
Nuts are a great source of fiber and another likely breast cancer foe--monounsaturated fats.” (I specifically eat (Brazil nuts are highest in selenium, hazelnuts are highest in a
compound like Taxol. I eat all nuts) 3 times a week.



“9+ Servings a Day of Fruits and Vegetables
As a dietitian, I had been eating my "five-a-day" consistently. But I moved up to nine or more a day because research shows that fruits and vegetables are packed with promising cancer-fighting phytochemicals. By eating twice as much produce, I hope to create a biochemical environment in my body that maximizes my ability to resist cancer.

Getting nine servings a day doesn't happen by accident; it takes thought and planning. So I aim for three servings at each meal plus fruit or veggie snacks each day. (The shake takes care of 3 servings, 1 serving for breakfast; the salad takes care of 3 servings, 1 serving for lunch and dinner the rest of the servings) Once you get the hang of it, it's much easier than you think. (I created a food diary checklist that helped me in the beginning and I would be happy to email it to anyone that is interested) Every single day, I try to include something from each of these groups:

· Cruciferous veggies: broccoli, broccoli sprouts, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower (I rotate these each time I need a new one and cut up 1/2 c. for my salad)

· Lycopene-rich produce: tomatoes, red grapefruit, watermelon, guava (I put ¼ of a tomato on my salad)

· Beta-carotene-rich produce: winter squash, carrots, sweet potatoes (I put a carrot in my daily shake and rotate the others)

· Citrus fruit: oranges, grapefruit (see above)

· Berries: strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, blueberries (I keep bags of these in the freezer and rotate them)

· Dark green, leafy veggies: spinach, romaine, kale, collards, Swiss chard (I put a cup of these in my salad each day and rotate them)

Once a week, I eat shiitake mushrooms for their anticancer activity (I put ½ c of these in my salad once a week as well as slice them for a salmon recipe I have), and fresh or water-packed artichokes (I put ½ c of these on my salad once a week) for their silymarin content. (Also found in the herb milk thistle, silymarin supports optimal liver function.)”

“1 or 2 Servings a Day of Low-Fat Dairy Products
I use 1 percent rather than fat-free milk because dairy fat has the highest concentration of a molecule called conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which has promising anticancer activity. I use only organic dairy products from non-BST-treated cows. (BST is a growth hormone.) Milk from non-BST cows contains lesser amounts of a compound called IGF-1. Higher blood levels of IGF-1 have been linked with several types of cancer. Much more research needs to be completed to clarify the relationship between IGF-1 and cancer, but I prefer to eliminate this possible risk factor from my diet.”



“1 or 2 Servings a Day of Soy Products
Soybeans contain many potentially anticarcinogenic compounds, including saponins, phytates, protease inhibitors, and isoflavones (weak estrogen compounds). So I have one or two servings a day of whole soy foods such as tofu or soy milk (BOTH are in the shake), which supply a total of about 25 to 50 mg of isoflavones. This amount is similar to a traditional diet in Japan, where women get far less breast cancer than do American women--though we don't have proof yet that soy is what protects them.”



“Fatty Fish Two or Three Times a Week
The omega-3 fats in fish such as salmon, mackerel, white tuna (NOT albacore as higher in mercury), sardines, and herring may help fight breast cancer. Almost all restaurants have salmon on the menu now, which is what I order when I eat out. And we eat two meals of these fish each week at home.



I've eliminated all meat and poultry from my diet to maximize my intake of plant foods. If you do eat meat, buy only very lean cuts and keep your portions small (the size of a deck of playing cards or less). (I do STILL eat meat 1 or 2 days a week though I am trying to incorporate a vegetarian meal in it’s place once in a while)”



“Garlic, Herbs, and Spices--Used Liberally
Every herb or spice increases your intake of phytochemicals that may fight cancer. (And they lend great flavor to my low-fat recipes!)” (I sprinkle turmeric and oregano, both of which have cancer fighting compounds, on my salad every day)



“1 to 2 Tablespoons of Ground Flaxseed a Day
Flax is a source of lignan precursors, which are converted inside the body to a weak antiestrogen that may be useful in preventing or treating estrogen-responsive tumors. Flax also supplies a plant form of omega-3 fats. The optimal amount of flax to consume is the subject of much current research.” (this is put in the shake)



“4 to 6 Cups a Day of Green Tea, Either Hot or Iced
I make a half-gallon pitcher of iced green tea every other day. I drink it for the promising anticancer activity of a compound it contains called epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG).” (OOPS, gotta get my 3rd cup)



“Extra Virgin Olive Oil or Canola Oil for Cooking
Both of these oils are high in monounsaturated fats, which may protect against breast cancer. I always look for processed foods with no trans fats (from partially hydrogenated oils) because these may increase cancer risk.

My goal is a low-fat diet with 20 percent of total calories from fat. Is the amount of fat you eat linked to breast cancer risk? Research is conflicting, but a low-fat diet does make it easier to stay trim, and that's another way to fight breast cancer.” (Because I don’t cook w/ olive oil daily I drink a TBS per day as well as make an Italian salad dressing w/ it, otherwise it is the only oil I use)



“Diana's Phytochemical Super Shake
This shake rocks! It equals one serving of vegetables, two servings of fruit, one serving of soy, one serving of ground flaxseed, and one serving of whole grain (wheat bran plus wheat germ)--plus one-third of your daily fiber. It's also delicious!

· 2.5 oz soft or silken tofu (about 1/3 c)

· 6 baby carrots

· 3/4 c fresh or frozen unsweetened fruit

· 1 Tbsp wheat bran

· 1 Tbsp wheat germ

· 1 Tbsp ground flaxseed

· 3/4 c calcium-fortified soy milk

· 3/4 c calcium-fortified orange juice

Put all the ingredients in a blender. Process on low speed, then increase to high for 1 to 3 minutes, or until fully blended. Makes one serving (3 cups)

Per serving: 313 cal, 18 g pro, 49 g carb, 9 g fat, 9 g fiber, 565 mg calcium, 89 mg sodium”

Good luck and good health

Rhonda Hoffman

An exellent resource. Well done.

RhondaH that looks like a very well worked out diet.

I agree Life Extension is a very good site.

Have a look at Annie Applseed as well - run by an indignant gritty and motivated sufferer with an interest in nutrition etc.

Rhondah's diet is among other things low in omega sixes. I parrot on but I really do beleive it is essential to cut out omega six sources looking for an intake balance of 1:1 omega three to six.

RB

[Ginger]

This is good information. Would it be a good idea to state whether one is ER+ or - as well? when doing some research on CO Q10 recently I read that there may be a correlation between having low cholesteral and BC. i.e. cholesteral can protect one from cancer in what way I'm not sure. i happen to have very low cholesteral and wonder if sticking to a super healthy diet may in effect make the cholesteral too low for others over time. Don't mean to be a wet blanket just a thought, altho I suppose including food higher in cholesteral from time to time would counteract this possibility. Anyone ever heard of this - maybe its on a different thread?

[Ginger]

For AL ........thought you posted something listing several cancer centers you would recommend or thought highly of for some reason. One was the Cleveland Breast Center I think. Did you mean the Cleveland Clinic's Breast Center or the Cleveland Breast Clinic?

[Ginger]

I would like to start taking the CO Q10 and have low blood pressure and have read you need to be careful if you have LBP. Does anyone know anything about this and how low is too low for the blood pressure? Thanks all.

[Ginagce]

Thanks to all for this information. Very helpful. When I was finished with chemotherapy I was not sure what supplements I needed so I went to the Dr. Andrew Weil website for recommendations. The plan is to take these until I've done all my own research to determine if I am missing any key supplement.

Ashwaganda - 300 mg per day
Daily Antioxidant
Daily Multivitamin (includes 90 mg of CoQ10)
Triphala - 750 mg per day
Additional Vitamin C
Cordyceps - 615 mg per day
Astragalus - 500 mg per day
Milk Thistle - 175 mg per day
Reishi Blend - 500 mg per day
DHA - 100 mg per day
Plus Omega 3 - DHA & EPA
Ginkgo - 120 mg per day
Additional Daily Calcium Magnesium

I also use Maitake D Fraction drops, 15-20 per day, preferably taken in green tea.

And I take a tablespoon of flaxseed oil in yogurt daily but am now concerned about this as it contains lignans and I am er+ and just read on Al's list that the lignans may not be good for er+.

Any comments or recommendations welcome.

Again, thanks for all, I've learned so much since finding this website.

Gina

[Marlys]

Rhonda,
I would like to see your food diary checklist . I sent an e-mail several days ago but I assume you didn't get.
Thanks, Marlys

[RhondaH]

I would LOVE to see what everyone is doing in the way of Nutrition and Supplements. Thank you.

Rhonda

[Susan2]

I was diagnosed 6 years ago Stage IIb, 2.5 cm, 11/13 lymph nodes positive. I had a 4 week wait between the mammogram (after I found the lump) and surgery. During that time, I decided to see what I could do myself. I started a "modified macrobiotic diet." I had broccoli, brown rice, grapefruit and green tea every day. I ate salmon at least 2-3 times a week, but strongly limited other meats. I added other fruits and vegetables to add some variety. For supplements, I just took a multivitamin and echinacea. Additionally, I did guided imagery. At the end of the one month, the surgeon was amazed because I had shrunk the tumor on my own.

I tried to stay on this, but as time passed, I got less disciplined.

Dose dense, high intensity ACT, rads, 5 years tamoxifen. Herceptin was just starting clinical trials for Stage III at the time. We discussed but decided against it then.

Now, 6 years later, I had a recurrance in a pulmonary lymph node (close to where the initial tumor was) and potentially in the lungs. I say potentially because the nodules were too small for a needle biopsy and I refused to do a surgical biopsy.
I started back on my diet. (Why do I have to be slapped in the face to do what's good for me?) I have not been as disciplined this time, but I strive for 7-9 servings of fruits and vegetables, as much salmon and tuna (usually from a can before of the mercury issues) as I can possibly stand, limited other meats, 1-2 servings of beans 5 out of 7 days. I use olive oil to cook with and to make salad dressings. I use a lot of spices esp. tumeric. (A friend of mine gave me some tumeric root to eat - it looks like a carrot, but doesn't taste like one. I plan to start eating that regularly.) I also drink tea several times a day - I rotate to try to alleviate the boredom factor - green, white and red (roibos).

For supplements, I take a multivitamin, magnesium (based on comments from this board), CoQ10 (for Herceptin), fish oil capsules (when I don't have enough fish) and Glucosamine (when I have joint pain).

I have completed 5 months of Navelbine and Herceptin. I had a PET scan this week showing NED. YEAH!!! I will continue on Herceptin indefinitely or until we have more data. I would love to be able to stop, but I'm not brave enough at this time.

I love to read what has worked and is working for others. This board is wonderful.

[madubois63]

I see a nutritionist at my oncology center. All supplements are approved by my onc. When adding new supplements, you should add them one at a time so if you have any reactions (bad digestion problems) you know which one is causing it...

Actenol (for osteoporosis 1x per week) (I'd never remember the once a
month pill)
Multi vitamin
Acidophilus (2 tbs before each meal) (for digestion)
Ester C
Total EFA (omega 3) (some people complain that if you burp, it smells fishy - keep refrigerated and this won't happen)
Co Enzyme 10
Garlic
Echinacea
Milk Thistle (for the liver)
Mushroom Complex (Maitake, Shiitake & Reishi)
Noni juice (one small shot every morning)

I cook with olive or canola oil, add flax seeds to sauces and salads, try to stay away from white food (rice, potatoes, bread) and use the more colorful stuff. Right now I am addicted to Pepperidge Farm's 15 grain bread (it's got flax seeds too). I love the nuttiness and crunch of it. Fresh fish is a must, one or two lean beef meals per week, lots of fruit, whole wheat pancakes with fresh blueberries (Aunt Jemima make a whole wheat mix - but it's hard to find), and I eat at least one fresh mushroom (Maitaki & Shiitaki) meal a week (omlete or sauteed) (Trader Joe's has fresh Maitaki). I also drink grape juice (no sugar) and pomagrant because I like them - if it helps all the better...

[Sandy H]

Rhonda that is great info and well put together thanks for sharing. A few questions. The food you buy is it organic? How about the salmon is it farm raised? I am told if it is then its best not to eat it because who knows what they are using for feed. Any processed foods/and /or canned are full of chemicals. I know the FDA will say its not enough to do any harm but a little here and a little there will add up. I do lots of supplements but they change depending if I am in or out of treatment and mine are customed to myself only. They are put together by an R.N. supplement researcher. She says it not good for me to pick a book and say I should do this as some of it will be good and some may not be. I have no way of knowing which is which. I admire each of you for your efforts and motivation in doing what you are doing. We are all in this together and are doing what we are comfortble with. I think we know our bodies and I know that I can feel good when I eat something or my body will tell me, "this is not good and don't do it again". Wishing you all the best. It is so good to share. hugs, Sandy

[RhondaH]

Yes, I buy as MUCH organic as I can AND I went to a lecture here in Grand Rapids recently called "What will we eat?"...VERY interesting. Talked about how a person should eat the food that is not only grown locally BUT what is prevalent in that area during each season (i.e. here in Michigan, NATURALLY, the root crop is prevalent during the winter so eat the winter fruits and vegetables NOT the strawberries from across the country or OUT of the country), because I eat from ALL food groups it is hard to do this. I also got a listing of local organic growers so that when I move next month, I can buy fresh and in bulk from them and will freeze the food when it is in season. The salmon I buy is wild as I agree that the farm raised are not raised "naturally". I eat NO processed foods (unless it's my "treat day" and quite honestly, on my treat day I would rather a homemade good rather than a processed one). I AM however eating what is left of our CANNED fruits and vegetables just to get rid of them prior to moving next month. I am checking into seeing a naturopath prior to my completing Herceptin in Aug...just for added insurance.Take care and God bless.

Rhonda

[katcdale@yahoo.com]

thanks for the nutrition advise and what your are doing, I may try it!! Kat

[StephN]

Good thread.
The main thing to note about salmon is that the WILD will have the omaga's that we want because they have swam down the river and built up their flesh through this activity. The farmed fish just laze around in a pond or sea pen of some kind and do not get this hard exercise to build up the omegas. Therefore, the benefit is lost besides getting all the "junk food" that is given to the raised salmon to eat. Also why farmed is never as firm as wild.

Side note: My hubby bought some Tilapia recently and boy it sure tasted like a piece of catfish that had lived all its life in a shallow muddy pool. They are farm raised and in a lot of stores and restaurant menus now. They are not on the "endangered fish" list, but I will sure avoid it!

We are eating less meat of any kind, so I am paying more attention to the fish and sea food we have available.

[RhondaH]

As promised, here is a previous post that I (and others responded to) as to our current diet and supplement regimen. I hope you AND others find this helpful as well as please add your own regimen so we may increase our resources. Thank you.

Rhonda

PS...OOPS, Brazil nuts are for selenium...