Markers question

harrie · 04-27-2009, 11:45 PM

I notice my markers are within the normal range, but are going slightly up. I have them done every 6 months and have only had 3 done. Here are my results:

04/09:
CA 125...13 range (0-35)
CA 15-3....8 range (0-31)
CEA....1.1 range (0-3.0)

10/08:
CA 15-3.....6

03/08:
CA 125....11
CA 15-3....6
CEA........0.7

You notice how its gone up a little yet still well within the normal range? I doubt it, but could this be some activity brewing?

Ellie F · 04-28-2009, 04:01 AM

Hi thanks for posting this question.
Please could somebody explain to me what tumour markers measure and what the different ones mean.
I mentioned these on my last visit to my onc as I had read about them on this board but was told they are not routinely done here in England
Thanks Ellie

Pam P · 04-28-2009, 06:03 AM

Harrie - My oncologist would say "normal is normal". They are going to fluctuate some and yours are well within normal - not even borderline normal. My take on it is be happy with those numbers. How's the rash?

donalddonald · 04-28-2009, 06:35 AM

Harrie: I think your tumar markers value is terrific, it is normal and good! But here in Macao, the oncs would have the test more often. As my own experience, I would say two or three months could be necessary.

Ellie: the tumar markers relate to different tumar possibilities, when they are in over expression, there may be chances of tumor activities. But my English ability is not enough to tell you the whole story, you could check it in the net.

hutchibk · 04-28-2009, 04:05 PM

One thing to know is that there is more than one type of machine that can run TMs. My clinic has two different machines, and they are calibrated differently. So there is a differential in the results. My current TMs that recently came back as a 2 - would have in the past been at apx a 7 or 8 on the other machine. My doctor and I don't know why they on occasion get run on opposing machines, but he always discerns which one they are using and translates it for me. The first time I noticed a big difference in the number, he told me not to worry as it was calibrated differently and translated to an equal result. Be sure and ask if your last one was run on a different machine...

When I was NED, we did mine every 3 months, not 6 months. Now that I am a mets girl, we do them about every month.

I am guessing my onc would say to check again in a month/6 weeks or so, and again at the same interval after that. If they continue to inch up, even within normal range, he would order PET and scans, including brain MRI. It's not so much that you are remaining in normal range, but if there are continuous incremental increases over 3 or more labs. That might indicate new activity. Anytime my TMs (CA15.3) have increased over 3 or more subsequent lab draws, it has always revealed very early new activity which has then always been confirmed with scans. We definitely pay close attention to mine and give them due respect.

Don't let yourself get worked up until you have seen at least 3 subsequent labs (personally, I would prefer it in a closer period of time) that show increases. TMs can bounce up and down without any real explanation...

For some people they aren't meaningful at all, and for some like me, they are very predictive, in the context of the big picture. Mine have never steered us wrong, though they might not always be as accurate for me as they have been up til now.

tricia keegan · 04-28-2009, 05:11 PM

Harrie Canarie, my onc does'nt do them with so many false positives.
Sorry i can't help more but please try not to worry about this, I like to understand as much as I can about this disease but am glad he does'nt do them and I avoid the extra stress they bring!

Believe51 · 04-28-2009, 06:37 PM

Like Brenda, Ed is very tumor marker sensitive and those markers have never steered us wrong either. He does the CEA and CA27/29. Markers done in the morning and the same sample of blood in the evening could give two different answers. He is doing his markers monthly also and scans to confirm this activity. A good doctor treats the patient not a number and some doctors do not pay too much mind to numbers at all. They are used as an indicator to procede and get a confirmation of activity before treatment.

There are some whose numbers are in normal range and they have a full blown stage IV situation and others that will never be in normal range even without activity. Some things we consume can play with these numbers, as well as an infection. These numbers can get way into the thousands or stay out of normal range but be their normal. Numbers will always fluctuate and bounce around a little bit.

Harrie, I say, "Loooooking Good!">>Believe51

ElaineM · 04-28-2009, 09:09 PM

Other things besides cancer like inflamation anywhere in the body ,smoking or infections anywhere in the body or can affect tumor markers. I would ask the doc if my markers were going up steadily. Maybe the doc can do the markers a little more often for awhile.

harrie · 04-28-2009, 11:55 PM

I want to add one thing. Remember i was telling you that I develop an unusual case of widespread raised red dots on my legs? I mean it was all over the sides of my calfs, just like that...boom...and then it kind infiltrated later my thighs and a bit on my arms and hand? Well NOTE THIS: all these dots initially appeared in the late afternoon on the SAME DAY that I had these labs taken (which was in the morning). I wonder of this inflammatory dermatitis could have made a slight elevation on my markers. (byw, found out the dots was a reaction to my bubble baths)
Thank you everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.

PS.....Welcome donalddonald!! I would like to send your wife some warm peaceful good thoughts... Keep on posting, ok?!

Believe51 · 04-29-2009, 12:41 AM

You know, Harrie, I was thinking about this a little awhile ago but I was consumed trying to clean out my pm box. How is that rash?

I just wanted to say that when there is a change for so many consecutive results a doctor will proceed with testing further. These tm tests are not cheap but are a great way to measure what is going on in the body. Some doctors truely do not put that much stock into them and there may be a cost issue involved with others reasonings. It is meaningful for us to realize the great importance of these tests, one would know if they are tm sensitive by the other weights and measures used in conjuction vs the results. These tm tests have allowed Ed to act faster than waiting for symptoms (ex: his brain) and there is no time to waste....he was diagnosed at stage IV. His tumor markers rose with every cancer rise even before a MRI spotted the brain mets or the bone scan noticed the new mets. I am very religious about these blood tests because they have allowed us to save some of the time we are fighting for. Ed is very very tumor marker sensitive and I am thankful for learning this. I firmly believe he is still alive today because of our proactiveness.

Other factors do play with that number but not that great of a difference. IMO, I would say 'slight'. We should all find out if we are tm sensitive and fight for these blood tests if we are. We fight for so many things, we find out so much information.....why would we not want to know if we are TMS?? We should all be as proactive as possible.

I am not trying to worry anyone, these are all just my experiences. I would never let Ed go more that 4 weeks without a test. He is Stage IV, Her2+++, Inflammatory and Male breast cancer, so there is nothing he could add to his disease that would make it more aggressive than that!

If anyone is uncomfortable with or without the tm tests please approach your doctor and discuss this matter. Again Harrie, you are looking great and I did not mean to ramble on and on. I just know that these tm have saved my husbands valuable time and this thread could save someone else's. Your diagnosis is not solely based on this bloodwork.>>Believe51

PS: Even when Ed knows he is having a reoccurence and the tm have risen into the hundreds, the OncoMan will still proceed with caution and gather much proof before acting, only with extreme speed and grace.

harrie · 04-29-2009, 11:27 PM

Marie, thank you so much for taking the time on explaining your experiences and opinions.
The rash is 100% better thanks for asking. It is practically gone on my legs and thighs. I have this one cluster of red spots just below my sternum. It is improves less quickly I think because it is more concentrated. But I do see some improvement on the redness there so I'm hopeful the hydrocortizone will work and clear it up.
Muchas alohas my friend...
HarrieCanarie

Joan M · 05-01-2009, 07:09 PM

Maryanne,

You sound like me. And my onc would also say that normal is normal, and that's that.

Not only that, even though my bc has spread, my markers have never been out of the normal range.

Go figure ...

Try not to worry about it, even though I know from experience that that's easier said than done.

Joan